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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinecellardoor
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love
    #7600785 - 11/05/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved."~George Sand

Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."~William Blake



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7600857 - 11/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that guy is not quite on. Personally, I would change it to "There is only one happiness in life: to know one is free, and to experience freedom."

I don't think there is such a thing as a soulmate, but I do believe it is possible for two people to connect at a very fundamental level. I haven't experienced it, but I like to believe it's out there. I don't know if I really believe it or just want to believe it, but it seems more likely than not that it is a distinct possibility.


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7600898 - 11/05/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

At the core of your being, the only thing that satisfies your existence, what makes consciousness worth wild, is sharing it with other sentient beings. Having others makes existence real, otherwise your waking life may as well be a dream. You should realize your love for everyone.

To find your soul mate you must combine love from the soul (immune from the physical world) and the all powerful physical, sexual attraction. For you live inside the realm of consciousness, which itself is inside, and is a product of the physical. Which makes you fall in both, unify the two.

damn im baked hope you guys can get something from that.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7600924 - 11/05/07 11:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cellardoor said:
Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?



I think so, but I don't know. I'll let you know when I find it.


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OfflineMorphMan
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Re: love [Re: soldatheero]
    #7601065 - 11/05/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
At the core of your being, the only thing that satisfies your existence, what makes consciousness worth wild, is sharing it with other sentient beings. Having others makes existence real, otherwise your waking life may as well be a dream. You should realize your love for everyone.

To find your soul mate you must combine love from the soul (immune from the physical world) and the all powerful physical, sexual attraction. For you live inside the realm of consciousness, which itself is inside, and is a product of the physical. Which makes you fall in both, unify the two.

damn im baked hope you guys can get something from that.




That is some deep shit, man. I are baked also.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7601144 - 11/06/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cellardoor said:
"There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved."~George Sand

Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?




I don't know. I don't think I could love anyone as much as I love my girlfriend. (And by love, I mean erotic love. I still have plenty of brotherly love to go around. :naughty:) In a social psychology class I learned an interesting definition of love - love is when another person becomes part of your self-identity. The absurdity and potency of this definition never hit me until I actually experienced it. It is quite an odd feeling to consider another person to be a part of your self. I have a hard time even explaining it.

I don't think soulmates or true love exists as people like to think it exists. A soulmate is not a person you stumble upon one day and then magically spend the rest of your life with. Soulmates have to be made.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7601389 - 11/06/07 04:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cellardoor said:
Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?




It depends on you. I see love as the state of being that arises when one dissolves obstructive elements of ourselves that seperate us from our direct experience of reality, which occurs when we become more conscious... Love is being conscious on a level that transcends addictions to security, sensation, and power. The more attached we are to these centers of consciousness, the less possible it is for us to center in being love. :heartpump:

I wouldn't speak for the idea of a "soulmate", as everyone associates their own meaning to it. In my experience, it is possible to find someone who complements who you are perfectly, to connect on every level, in every way... to find someone that truly captivates you in every second, with every subtle aspect of who they are, and you are lucky enough for them to feel the same way about you... :yinyang:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinehummermania00
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Re: love [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7601615 - 11/06/07 08:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:


In my experience, it is possible to find someone who complements who you are perfectly, to connect on every level, in every way... to find someone that truly captivates you in every second, with every subtle aspect of who they are, and you are lucky enough for them to feel the same way about you... :yinyang:




Yes, i know what you are saying here, and it is fairly obvious from your recent posts with MT that you both have found something special.

But I wonder that: "possible to find someone who complements who you are perfectly", is as subjective as "soulmate" in that each person interprets this differently.
And I don't intend this to belittle anyone's experience, but I notice as a general trend that people are really highly focused on "perfection" in relationships over the past 20-30 years. It is my experience that most are not, the ones that are, are very rare.


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You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: love [Re: hummermania00]
    #7601656 - 11/06/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I keep forgetting and remembering about love. It seems when I go looking for it, it eludes me. When I'm no longer looking for something, and I'm just gently sharing myself, this is when the love comes in.

Gentleness.. is something which I've taken for granted but when I put the concept into use I find that gentleness is gracefulness and when you are graceful - doing everything with peaceful and caring intent- everything becomes easy and effortless and love is more free to flow through you and the thing you are putting care into, whether it be a person, instrument, and so on.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7601699 - 11/06/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?

What, as opposed to untrue love?:rofl2: IME the soulmate thing is a bunch of baloney. Romantic attachment to an attractive person of the opposite sex is not love.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: love [Re: soldatheero]
    #7601703 - 11/06/07 09:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
At the core of your being, the only thing that satisfies your existence, what makes consciousness worth wild, is sharing it with other sentient beings. Having others makes existence real, otherwise your waking life may as well be a dream. You should realize your love for everyone.

To find your soul mate you must combine love from the soul (immune from the physical world) and the all powerful physical, sexual attraction. For you live inside the realm of consciousness, which itself is inside, and is a product of the physical. Which makes you fall in both, unify the two.

damn im baked hope you guys can get something from that.




Sorry,try posting sober next time.:thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: love [Re: Icelander]
    #7602163 - 11/06/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Romantic attachment to an attractive person of the opposite sex is not love.




Whereas attachment to a repulsive member of the opposite sex IS love. :yesnod:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7602237 - 11/06/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Love is an amazing experience, particularly when you let go of the idea that people must deserve to be loved.  There are, however, many other happinesses in life.

The concept of "soul mate," IMO is entirely too limiting.  We may love everyone if we shift the emphasis from the qualities of others to our own quality of being loving.  If love is a verb, as opposed to a noun (thing), then we can take action to be loving, rather than waiting for it to happen to us with some imaginary perfect (HA!) person.

There are certainly others with whom we experience a higher degree of affinity, and these companions will usually have a larger place in our lives than the rest of humanity.  But if we limit our ability to love to this small group, we will create unhealthy dependencies AND miss out on the wider experience of loving.  :heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: love [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7602442 - 11/06/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Romantic attachment to an attractive person of the opposite sex is not love.




Whereas attachment to a repulsive member of the opposite sex IS love. :yesnod:




Only for you dear one.:heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecellardoor
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Re: love [Re: Icelander]
    #7604558 - 11/06/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"true love" and "soulmate" are loaded words; they can mean so many different things for each individual, but society agrees on a general idea of these words/notions. Sure, there could be such a thing as "untrue love," it depends on how you look at it, take anna nicole(ugh) for example, or any other relationship of that kind. Perhaps George Sand considered love in the way you describe it, a superficial attraction, but i do not see it that way. love i imagine would be a feeling of harmony, of sharing the same wavelength sort of thing. And it is regardless of the outer shell(costume) we all wear. But at the moment love does exist to me, i just wanted to see what others thought of the concept. :scaredturtle:


--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."~William Blake



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7604684 - 11/06/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that when most people say they love somebody what they really mean is that they are dependent on the affection, attention, social approval, and sex they get from the relationship. There's a part of me that is holding out in the belief that it really is possible to develop a passionate romantic relationship that is not simply dependent or about the satiation of loneliness, but rather based on some deeper affinity. This sort of relationship, of course, can only exist non-coercively, between people who recognize the other's freedom leave or to feel differently in the future. These hypothetical partners must be comfortable enough being alone that thier motivation is not clinging to an illusion of security. What I imagine is pretty much beyond the kinds of relationships I see people having, and that I have had. I'm working on being the kind of person who is capable of relating on this level. But I'm also working on being the kind of person who is content to be alone. If this works out, either way I win. :smirk:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: love [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7605357 - 11/07/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What I imagine is pretty much beyond the kinds of relationships I see people having




:whatever:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: love [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7606131 - 11/07/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

There's a part of me that is holding out in the belief that it really is possible to develop a passionate romantic relationship that is not simply dependent or about the satiation of loneliness, but rather based on some deeper affinity. This sort of relationship, of course, can only exist non-coercively, between people who recognize the other's freedom leave or to feel differently in the future. These hypothetical partners must be comfortable enough being alone that their motivation is not clinging to an illusion of security.




In my experience, this is entirely possible, but not at all easy.  To relate to another in this manner requires not only being OK with being alone, but also a willingness to confront one's own knee-jerk emotional reactions to difficult situations. 

As to the "passionate romantic" part, much of what we think of as passion and romance is rooted in emotional turmoil and dependence.  Confronting these illusions is a lifetime's work, and IMO the price of admission to the deep friendship you've described and which I am currently experiencing with my dear one. :heart:

It means that the relationship can shift and change, but the loving friendship remains.  It means that your clinging and neurosis will be exposed again and again, and you will take full responsibility for your own emotional state.  It also means that you will continue to nurture and support yourself, no matter how tempting it is to over-focus on the bliss of connection.

It's worth it, though.  Not as much for the relationship, though it is wonderful, but rather for the knowledge that you are capable of loving this way.  :sun:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: love [Re: Veritas]
    #7606848 - 11/07/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Right on Veritas, it's nice to know there are other people in the world who see things this way, and practice it as well as they can. There is something beyond co-dependence! Lucky for me, confronting my own illusions is my favourite hobby! Now encountering another who is committed to the same... hmm...

Mush, roll your eyes all you want but are you gonna try and tell me that you have never observed a couple having a codependent, clinging, neurotic relationship? Because in my experience this is the norm, and I want nothing of it. Maybe I'm in the wrong social scene, but people I know either have clinging neurotic long term relationships, or they are commitment-phobes who can't communicate and freak out the second they assume (without asking) that the other wants more from them than they know how to give. My personal experience tends to fall into the latter category. I guess to be fair, I can think of a few couples that seem to have well balanced, communicative and functioning relationships. Kudos to them. They are inspiring.


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Offlinebbaeker
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Re: love [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7608912 - 11/07/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i found my "soulmate" if you want to call it that, and i had nothing to do with it, the interaction between us was something that just happened. when we look back on it all (our meeting and endeavour into relationship) it seems so bizzare, and it tis hard to remember that i was once a single person, and that was only 3 yrs ago. being with her was/is like being alone but with someone else. it's strange to say the least. there is something that fused between us that i cannot comprehend, and our togetherness seems so fundamental, like the night and day coming and going. we are something that simply "is", and our connectedness seems somehow beyond our control.


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OfflineAnarchoTrip
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Re: love [Re: cellardoor]
    #7608975 - 11/07/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cellardoor said:
"There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved."~George Sand

Is there such a thing as a soulmate? True love?




of course there is such a thing as a soulmate, the question is whether it's only between TWO people... why can't I have four soul mates? it seems that humans have the potential to all fall in love with each other, so why limit soulmate for only two people?


--------------------
YIPPIE!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: love [Re: AnarchoTrip]
    #7609089 - 11/07/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Of course? Not of course. I don't even see any evidence of a soul. How about lets get real and just say we can be compatible with more than one person.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: love [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7610875 - 11/08/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush, roll your eyes all you want but are you gonna try and tell me that you have never observed a couple having a codependent, clinging, neurotic relationship?




I've observed my fair share of abusive relationships, but I have also observed many productive relationships too. I don't know what you mean by "neurotic."

(I tend to ignore all the relationships I have witnessed while younger than eighteen. It seems that younger people tend to have poorer relationships than older people. High School for guys was all about trying to get laid and High School for girls was all about trying to hurt guys for using them. This was pretty much the basis of all relationships I observed during this time. :cuckoo:)

Why is it wrong to depend on someone else for something? (As long as that dependence is not pervasive, of course.) I think if you really examined your day to day activities, you would find you depend on others for almost everything. You depend on your bus driver to get you around town. You depend on the police to keep you safe. (In theory...) You depend on the supermarket to provide you with food. You depend on your professors to be taught philosophy and earn a degree. You (may or may not) depend on your parents (or government) to pay for your education. You depend on your doctors to fix you when you become ill. You depend on your friends for social support, encouragement, etc. The list goes on and on and on.

What is so great about total independence, anyway? Accomplishing everything by yourself means you probably accomplish less than most people. There is a reason society exists. Reinventing the wheel is not a sign of progress.

I think co-dependence is totally natural and healthy, especially in romantic relationships. If you didn't depend on the other person for SOMETHING, why would you be in a relationship in the first place? This dependence on others only becomes harmful if it is pervasive. Depending on your "significant other" for compassion and care seems normal and healthy. Depending on your "significant other" to make decisions and assume responsibility of your life seems unhealthy. In most relationships I have observed, people rely on their partner for affection, care, encouragement, companionship, etc. This doesn't seem neurotic to me.


Cliff notes - If you're helpless and unable to care for yourself without your "significant other", you gots a prob, babe. Otherwise, yer good to go.


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InvisibleGr33nTree73
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Re: love [Re: Icelander]
    #7611952 - 11/08/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I would definitely say there is the existence of true love since at this point in my life I'm positive the girl I have been with for a fair while now is the one  :loveeyes:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: love [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #7611963 - 11/08/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry but know one knows the future. It's a total comedy how many millions of humans:monkeydance: have made this statement only to divorce or get a new girl. :crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: love [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7612792 - 11/08/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You make a good argument, Mush. I'm not even going to try and argue against it, because there's really nothing wrong with what you are saying. My own relationship history leaves much to be desired, and a lot of people in my social circle (especially the people I date) have similar issues. I guess I just have things to work out, and I'm working on that. Wish me luck. :shrug:

I guess I've just witnessed a lot of people enter relationships to fill a void, or because they are in love with the idea of being in love and not actually with that person. It's easy to succumb to delusions when you carry expectations and a particular model for how things work without actually communicating all that well. This is a pervasive issue, and I really think it's one of the biggest relationship problems out there.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: love [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7613164 - 11/08/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:crankey:


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