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OfflineBigBubbaMushroom
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Registered: 08/04/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
pH Shielding spawn
    #7600369 - 11/05/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, first off, I've been cultivating these baby's a while now, and I've stepped up to straw logs. In the straw log tek I use, I give my straw a bath in hydrated lime to neutralize contams, and I must say it's worked beautifully, thus far.

Lately, however, I have been having problems with my spawn (popcorn --- mmmmm) becoming contamed prior to full colonization, I haven't changed anything about how I prep my spawn, (I PC for at least 1-1/2 hrs to 2 hrs) and I'm using G2G as it has worked for me in the past beautifully (50 jars, only one contaminated.) Lately, I've been getting trych in damned near all of them, with about a 10-20% survival rate. So I followed the usual bleach bomb procedure, cleaned up the place, and still can't seem to get it to work...

so here's what I came up with, I'd just like some opinions on if anyone has tried it before, and why or why not if it's a good idea or not (I've set up several test batches, I'll let you guys and gals know how/ if it works out for me.) Basically what I do is follow the same pH bath procedure for my corn that I follow for my straw prior to packaging and innoculating.

Step 1:
Pre-soak (of course) -- I pre-soak the corn for 16-24 hours to germinate any bacterial endospores that my survive any future atempts to kill them.

Step 2:
Hydration -- I boil the corn for about 30-45 minutes, until the kernels begin to expand.. (don't worry, they hydrate fully before getting inoculated.)

Step 3:
pH Bath -- I boil a huge amount of water (enough that 1/2 cup of hydrated lime will raise the pH to 13 or 14 ish mixing well, of course.) Basically Pasteurising the corn until for 1 and 1/2 hrs.

Step 4:
Draining/cooling -- I spread the corn out on a screen to cool and drain out the excess, then after it's cooled for 1 hour, I jar it, and add the colonized grain (it's cool enough to not kill off the mycellium.)

and optional step 5:
This is part of the experimental phase, and I basically PC'd half the jars, just to see which of the two batches are more suceptible to contaming prior to 100% col.

Just wondering if anyone knows of any reason there could be a problem with this method, or if there are any other suggestions of alternate methods to create a contam resistant spawn, I'm really looking forward to any suggestions that any of you may have.

Thx,

Bubba


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: pH Shielding spawn [Re: BigBubbaMushroom]
    #7600420 - 11/05/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that alkaline-bath will definitely prevent almost all contamination. It'll also prevent your spores from ever germinating as the popcorn absorbs the water from that bath...

Mycelium colonizes best in the 6.5-6.8 range and I'm fairly confident it dies off higher than 8.0... It shows signs of stress as low as the 7.2-7.5 range, if I recall correctly...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineBigBubbaMushroom
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Registered: 08/04/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: pH Shielding spawn [Re: mycocurious]
    #7600441 - 11/05/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, but I'm not using spores, I'm using G2G, (same principal as straw logs...) so I was wondering if anyone can think of a reason that this would damage my red headed children at all......

Bubba


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: pH Shielding spawn [Re: BigBubbaMushroom]
    #7600535 - 11/05/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

same answer, the high pH will kill your mycelium. bottom line...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: pH Shielding spawn [Re: mycocurious]
    #7600789 - 11/05/07 10:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not so sure of that, but it seems unnecessary. I do know that the bacteria in popcorn tend to form new endospores within a few hours of germinating. Perhaps try a four to five hour soak, and then boil to finish hydrating and PC.

I gave up on popcorn years ago due to the much higher ratio of contamination, usually bacteria, over what I get with rye, which is near zero.
RR


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: pH Shielding spawn [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7601554 - 11/06/07 08:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not that confident that hydrated lime could create such an alkaline solution to begin with but all the same, it might be a big assumption on my part, but assuming you did boil the popcorn for over an hour in such an alkaline bath that was in the 13-14 pH range, I can't image how the mycelium would be able to survive because a good deal of that liquid would be absorbed into the kernels...

Still, I agree about popcorn kernels (any type of corn, really) being in the top three poor choices of spawn mediums so I guess it's a moot point.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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