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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
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I have just seen the pictures and not an actual fresh specimen. I will be attempting to isolate a culture from the gill fragments provided for microscopy. With luck I'll have something to look at next Fall. Until then I have pretty much done all I can do at this time.
I do have a dried PNW P. baeocystis sample somewhere but I have misplaced it for the moment. Once I find it I can do a comparative microscopy.
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Strophariaceae said:
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CureCat said:
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Workman said: The mango shaped spores and cap fading whitish on drying seems to indicate a species in the Section Aztecorum.
Is that based on Workman having seen actual fresh collections, or just based on having seen the pics at the beginning of this thread (where its kind of hard to distinguish color)?
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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Strophariaceae
mycologist



Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: CureCat]
#7975656 - 02/03/08 10:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said: The photos are not hard for me to distinguish. I can see that a lot of those have faded to a very light, almost off-white colour.
I dunno, the thing is, all Psilocybe fade with drying, but the P. aztecorum group does this more than others. Do the photos at the beginning of the thread unambiguously show stronger fading than you'd see on cyans? Maybe they do and maybe they don't – I have a hard time telling from those pics, but your mileage may vary.
Color accuracy is a place where you run up against the limitations of photography (and somebody like Taylor Lockwood or Mike Wood can tell you a lot about the difficulty of getting accurate color in photos), and really subtle color differences, like the ones between faded cyans and faded baeocystis, are something that kind of pushes those limitations. You'd probably be able to see it if you had samples of both in the same photo, but otherwise, not so easy.
Which, in a nutshell, is why it helps to be able to see fresh material.
Kind of a fine point though – those are definitely section Azetecorum-type spores, in any event.
(Colour? You going Brit on us, CureCat )
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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I know what you mean about not getting true colour in photos... look at this thread for a perfect example (scroll down for the photo of the mushrooms true colour): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7973313#Post7973313
That said, most photos are still fairly accurate. In my experience, the images which deviate a LOT (to the point of not being able to distinguish the yellow/tan colour of the pileus of drying Ps. cyanescens compared to the off-white colour of the mushrooms in question) are fairly detectable, like in the photos in the link above.
To me, the photos of these mushrooms show a much lighter hygrophanous fading. Once this season, I had a patch produce some very pale mushrooms. The mushrooms which had come up 2 weeks before these were normal in colour, but these were noticeably light in colour. They were of the "Friscosa" variety, and I took some comparison photos of two of them next to two Ps. cyanescens with normal colouration. One each of the "Friscosa" and the Ps. cyanescens had completely faded, and you can see the clear difference between the off-white "Friscosa" and the tan-yellow Ps. cyanescens. The other two were in the mid stages of fading completely.


Oh, and I learned to spell on the internet, not so much in school. So I was exposed to different spellings without realizing there was a difference in North American vs. European English. I guess I saw the "-our" more than "-or", or maybe the "-our" just seemed like it made more sense. Whichever it was, by the time I realized that there was a difference (because I kept getting marked down on spelling tests in elementary school, and arguing with the teacher about it), I had gotten into the habit of using the European spelling, and didn't feel the need to make any changes.
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Edited by CureCat (02/04/08 12:07 AM)
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HerbBaker


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: CureCat]
#7976961 - 02/04/08 09:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd like to know what parts of guzmans paper are under question, and why.has any of this been cleared up since 1978?
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: Workman]
#8047755 - 02/20/08 03:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Comparison to 2004 Oregon collection.

Spores ellipsoid to mango shaped (9.2)10-12(13.2) x 5.6-7.0 microns. Cheilocystidia occasionally forked. Pleurocystidia extremely rare, only one example observed.
After considering all of the features together and comparing it to the Oregon collection, I am going to have to say that the Maine species is Psilocybe baeocystis. If I had found them on the northwest coast I would have no hesistation in this identification. It is mainly the eastern location that is muddying things. The spores of the Maine material are a bit larger than expected but probably not enough to merit its own distinct species. In my opinion (as a nonprofessional) it is, at most, an eastern variant of P. baeocystis.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter



Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: Workman]
#8048842 - 02/20/08 07:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice! thats a very awesome find. At least we now know that multiple species are traveling for sure.
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Libertine
Tarzan...King of Mars



Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 161
Loc: New England
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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GREAT find and outstanding thread!!! Congratulations. 
And a BIG thanks to everyone involved for the detailed info and the hard work in trying to figure out what these mushrooms are. Gives us NE hunters hope and added reason to get out in the field...great finds lead to great karma. If they are found in November there is a chance they could be found in the early spring. And if not who knows what else might be found growing out there.
-------------------- A mind is a terrible thing to taste...hehehe.
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Cubie
Moderator




Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,840
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Subbedhunter420 said: Nice! thats a very awesome find. At least we now know that multiple species are traveling for sure.
i was thinking about that this morning while i was walking through the woods. its seems like theres only oysters and some other oyster looking mushrooms around my part of the woods. (it was flakier had orange and reddish stripes across the middle and white on top and bottom) bleh no words are coming to my brain
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HerbBaker



Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: Cubie]
#8110667 - 03/06/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks! John Allen believes this may be a new species still. Are baeos found in clumps? the only pics i could find dont show them growing this way.
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Montanahunter420
Mushroom Hunter



Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 1,188
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: HerbBaker]
#8111218 - 03/06/08 02:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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warriorsoul said: Thanks! John Allen believes this may be a new species still. Are baeos found in clumps? the only pics i could find dont show them growing this way.
He is also ape shit crazy. Personally I would value workman's opion over John Allens opion any day. Interesting find and congrats even though it was a while ago.
-------------------- All of my posts are purely fictional and for hypothetical purposes.
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HerbBaker



Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
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Thanks! It isnt about whos opinion i value more... MJ has probably seen more P. baeocystis than anyone on this board. If he tells me they look a little different i listen.
Edited by HerbBaker (03/06/08 02:39 PM)
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
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It is still possible thats it is a new species. I am working with limited information. I hope to produce a fresh specimen this Fall from spores for further examination.
But it is absolutely very closely related to P. baeocystis.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter



Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: Workman]
#8111616 - 03/06/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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would this find be comparable to the friscosa v. cyansescens complex?
like baeocystis v. baeocystis var. Maine? lol
im makin shit up now.
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Libertine
Tarzan...King of Mars



Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 161
Loc: New England
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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I hope I am not running afoul of the rules with this question but I have a "general habitat" question.
I saw that you said that they were found along a grass line, slightly elevated from a wet wooded area warriorsoul...which is a great description of the specific habitat. But generally speaking...would you say the water standing or moving? And how would you characterize the overall terrain (swampy, flood plain, forest, lake area, valley, general elevation, etc.)? I am planning to get out within the next month and start searching so any clarification on the larger habitat would be appreciated.
If I did post an out of bounds question(s) I do apologize and I will delete the post if it is deemed to be so...I just thought asking would help any and all of us, in a general sense, planning to go hunting in the northeastern US this year.
-------------------- A mind is a terrible thing to taste...hehehe.
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HerbBaker



Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: Libertine]
#8183462 - 03/23/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I still got some spores if any experienced growers wanna give these a shot, pm me.
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eutebius



Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 176
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: HerbBaker]
#8185179 - 03/23/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Howdy all,
Just wanted to send a little holler of hope to you active Maine hunters out there, and to those of you who are simply happy to hear of wide-spread spores. I lived in Maine for the last two years, around the Farmington area, and often found cubensis in cow fields I'd traverse when mountain biking, especially in late summer. They're around.
E
-------------------- Read, with rigorous criticality, hilarity, and with a large soul.
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fliped
The Lost One



Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 2,879
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: eutebius]
#8186396 - 03/24/08 09:37 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
eutebius said: Howdy all,
Just wanted to send a little holler of hope to you active Maine hunters out there, and to those of you who are simply happy to hear of wide-spread spores. I lived in Maine for the last two years, around the Farmington area, and often found cubensis in cow fields I'd traverse when mountain biking, especially in late summer. They're around.
E
are you saying you are finding cubensis in Maine???
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter



Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: fliped]
#8186410 - 03/24/08 09:40 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Id like to see a picture of that. you would make a very big find if you found cubensis up there. about as big as the psilocybe baeocystis.
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fliped
The Lost One



Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 2,879
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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i would be very surprized to say the least if he was finding wild cubes in maine...lol
What up subbed!
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter



Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 1,501
Loc: LA/Ventura County
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Maine? [Re: fliped]
#8186544 - 03/24/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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What up Fliped! haha
I got another couple hundred subbs to upload tonight. And I will have another couple hundred to pick on wednesday.
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