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Invisiblelesh
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quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreamy??? (LONG POST) *DELETED*
    #7597954 - 11/05/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by lesh

Reason for deletion: obsolete. view this for a summary of this thread's findings: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7598972#Post7598972



Votes accepted from (12/31/69 05:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



Edited by lesh (11/13/07 09:29 AM)


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Offlinezepp420
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7597961 - 11/05/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ze goggles! Zhey do nothing!


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Invisiblepong
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7597967 - 11/05/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:kingcrankey:

i vote no.

achieving those states through non chemical means requires a near lifetime of dedication. for example Buddhist monks.  so unless you plan on doing that i say your plan pretty much sucks.


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Offlinetsquad
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7597979 - 11/05/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My opinion on this: psychedelics and entheogens are not God. They are temporary keys unlocking, as cliche as it sounds, the doors of perception. As long as you can recognize the spiritual growth you are experiencing as independent from the substance, then I think continuing to use them is fine. In my opinion, psychedelics aren't what cause the experience (as some people take them to hallucinate and laugh for hours, whereas others take them for spiritual reasons, and some combine the two). To me, they show the path. They aren't the path. The paradox of taking an external substance to learn so much about your inner self is for sure a confusing one. The transition from a psychedelic lifestyle to a yogic lifestyle is certainly honorable, but I don't think that you need to be one or the other. If you haven't read Be Here Now by Ram Dass, I highly recommend it.


Edited by tsquad (11/05/07 10:45 AM)


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: tsquad]
    #7597992 - 11/05/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

coincidently, i was perusing this page earlier while googling mysticism without entheogens and found this article:

Ralph Metzner On Leary, Ram Dass, Shamanism &
'Alchemical Divination'
http://www.openexchange.org/features/metzner.html

Hadn't read his comments on ram dass but this paragraph was key for me:

Quote:

BB: Can you expand consciousness in the same way, with or without drugs?

RM: Yes, absolutely. After I worked with Leary and Alpert for about five or six years I got involved in the study of yoga and meditation. I studied in a western school of yoga called Actualism, or Agni Yoga, which is light fire yoga, for 10 years, attentively, without any drug use whatsoever. So, it's a meditative method. And I still use these methods and work with them in my work, and I teach them in therapy. Consciousness can be expanded in many, many different ways. And then there are particular systems, three main traditional systems of expanding consciousness: shamanism, yoga, and alchemy, with shamanism being the oldest, and yoga more developed in the East, and alchemy more developed in the West. And there are systems of transformation on every level. The physical level would be healing. The emotional/psychological level would be what we could call psychotherapy, personal growth. And the mental level more philosophical understanding. And the spiritual level, coming in contact with the Divine. The Divine Within, not the Divine in some transcendental deity. What these experiences point to is a concept of the sacred within everything. And this is in accord with the indigenous traditions the world over who see the sacred not in a transcendent deity, in heaven "up there," separated from ordinary reality, but inherent in the natural world. That's called animism. And that's what I think is the attraction behind movements like shamanism or the use of natural medicines, plant medicines, both in health and healing and in the pursuit of sacred visionary plants, and the appeal of natural methods of farming. It's not that they're against the technology, but they want to go to where's there a more direct psychic and spiritual recognition of the independence of the entire world, of all of human life with plants and animals and trees, forests....




thanks for the insightful post. It is kinda what I had been thinking too at the back of my mind. But the problem with quitting my abuse of vaping 95% pure thc all day every day for so long, and only now slowly detoxing is i don't know if my thoughts regarding using shrooms rarely and constructively are the addict of entheogens in me lookins for an alternative. then again, i don't know if my extreme aversion to entheogens is also due to the mindset from abusing weed and the resultant withdrawal symptoms.


Edited by lesh (11/05/07 10:52 AM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7598094 - 11/05/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think we're on pretty similar paths. I've gotten pretty deep into mystical/occult studies, and have had some pretty extraordinary experiences without chemical assistance. I've thought about giving up psychedelics altogether, particularly after a recent bad trip. I've already given up pot, cigarettes, and most other drugs.

But with psychedelics, I still feel like I'm not quite there yet. So, I just continue on my mystical path, and I figure when I'm advanced enough, a point will come when I'll just naturally walk away from psychedelics and never look back. They've done a lot for me, but it seems like I'm at a point now where they serve little purpose other than as a party drug. But the thing is, I still like to party. I'm not ready to become some ascetic who meditates in the woods all day and eats nothing but rice and milk(nor do I intend to). I still enjoy a glass of wine every now and then, and I like to go to raves and do acid and E. But psychedelics have by and large lost the spiritual significance they once held for me, and that's ok. I don't need to be a mystic 24/7.


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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: Silversoul]
    #7598105 - 11/05/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lesh said:
Plus, i've never had a shroom trip I can say I really enjoyed. most led to depressing thought loops




Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think we're on pretty similar paths.

I've thought about giving up psychedelics altogether, particularly after a recent bad trip.




Do I see a pattern, here?


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Invisiblememes
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: JunkFood]
    #7598112 - 11/05/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i think you could

but it'd be so much easier and more enjoyable (although not necessarily more fulfilling) with the drugs :smile:


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Offlinegeedorah Happy Birthday!
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: Silversoul]
    #7598216 - 11/05/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
a point will come when I'll just naturally walk away from psychedelics and never look back.




I feel like I'm approaching a path that is taking me away from cannabis. I used it the last four years and it has benefited me greatly, but I had to move locations and ever since I've felt it has held me back.

OP: I think that if you take the experiences you've had with drugs you should still be able to deal with life. You've obviously learned a lot from them?


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) *DELETED* [Re: JunkFood]
    #7598697 - 11/05/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by lesh

Reason for deletion: obsolete



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Offlinegeedorah Happy Birthday!
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7598905 - 11/05/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i know i should be doing something productive like training, martial arts, reading etc, but i never feel depressed of hopeless per say.




Apply your time to these desires and then reward your self. If you can please yourself in a sober state maybe your trips will be a lot more enjoyable.


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Edited by geedorah (11/05/07 04:42 PM)


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: geedorah]
    #7598972 - 11/05/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was actually thinking about making a post very similar to this, but I was planning on asking drug users what their reasons are for using, and if they think they could attain the same effects in a natural way. I guess I got my answer from the replies in this thread. The general consensus seems to be that drugs are the shortcut but a natural approach is just as appealing, albeit much more time consuming and certainly not as convenient.

Anyways, I admire your effort. I hope you can sustain your perspective on life without drugs. Sober life can be just as good, and even much better, than a chemical existence - it just takes some effort.


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) *DELETED* [Re: geedorah]
    #7601109 - 11/06/07 12:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by lesh

Reason for deletion: obsolete



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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7602799 - 11/06/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

6-9 for the votes! all day at work i been going back and forth. at the moment i only work part time and worry how I would handle fulltime work after university without any medicines.

btw, my weed withdrawls are really starting to depress me now (8days), but i will not risk a shroom trip making me depressed and start blazing again like last time. I've also been trawling through the net for threads on "making it" without entheogens including some interesting threads on shroomery on tripping without plants. although i don't fancy fasting again or trying sleep deprivation since it would mess with my lifestyle too much.


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) *DELETED* [Re: lesh]
    #7605986 - 11/07/07 08:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by lesh

Reason for deletion: post not valid for the conclusio



Edited by lesh (11/07/07 09:13 AM)


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Invisiblepong
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7606071 - 11/07/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lesh said:
I also blame it on been high on thc vapour 24/7 for the last 2 years.






meh, i know people that are high all the time for the last 5 years at least and they dont do things b/c of teh weed.

blame yourself.

for the money wasted. im guessing you are rich?

i am broke and bitter.(edit)


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Edited by pong (11/07/07 09:38 AM)


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: pong]
    #7606112 - 11/07/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The illusion that is society judges people and tells them that they are wrong to question all of this. It tells you that the tools that are here for you to use are to be frowned upon. What you do or not do is your business. All I have to say is that the drug experience gives a fresh perspective, a clean break from the past where you can experience whatever this is with clean, unjaded perception. Whenever I do something that is socially unacceptable I find that I am doing that which is vital to existing as authentically as possible.

"Straight edge for life, yo!"


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: pong]
    #7606158 - 11/07/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
Quote:

lesh said:
I also blame it on been high on thc vapour 24/7 for the last 2 years.






meh, i know people that are high all the time for the last 5 years at least and they dont do things b/c of teh weed.

blame yourself.

for the money wasted. im guessing you are rich?

i am broke and bitter.(edit)




Well, i've just noticed a change in my personality since kicking weed. Like not been so impulsive about purchases amongst other things.
Everyone is different i suppose...

I am not rich. In debt instead.


Edited by lesh (11/13/07 09:36 AM)


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Invisiblelesh
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7606186 - 11/07/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
All I have to say is that the drug experience gives a fresh perspective, a clean break from the past where you can experience whatever this is with clean, unjaded perception.




this is definitely true. Like i said, I never really delved into the realms of perceiving spirit worlds etc, but even though all my shrooms trips were depressing, they did offer me a fresh perspective and made me feel really clean (emotionally) after. But I just feel the need to prove to myself that there have to be natural ways (not involving abandoning my fam to be a monk tomorrow, or going on prolongued fasts or maintaining late night vigils) to attain this.

Quote:

Whenever I do something that is socially unacceptable I find that I am doing that which is vital to existing as authentically as possible.




This is most definitely true. But a non entheogenic avenue to the authentic life must be there for the masses


Edited by lesh (11/13/07 09:37 AM)


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Invisiblepong
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Re: quitting all drugs & entheogens but still being able to deal with life and be dreammmmy??? :) [Re: lesh]
    #7606195 - 11/07/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah....  just dont blame the weed ya know. it gives it a bad rap.

a simple no would have sufficed to answer my question .  im glad you arent wasting money on weed anymore though.  :grin: specially since you feel better without it.

:werd:


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