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Offlinemikebart101
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Registered: 08/01/06
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The Greatest of Questions
    #7593386 - 11/04/07 02:28 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I was intoxicated to say the least, but even alcohol makes me think like a madman.

While walking through the ghetto of Boston...

"I see these cars, lined up perfectly in genuine parallel. Each street light is 100 feet apart. The lights are yellow and the air is cool. I am not cold. The wind is beautiful. The patterns are there. They are there. My boots sound like spars on the back of some outlaw. I live in a 21st century western. That can or piece of garbage behind me, the one that just blew across the road, was just a piece of brush. Ching, Ching, Ching, Ching, I am in a western. Times have not changed. I live in a time of vigilantes. Pure justice. I have heard people talk about dying for a cause and living for a cause, but would you be able to KILL for a cause. Do you believe in something that emotionally that you would KILL to enforce it or convey it, even if that action meant eliminating a part of society that burdened itself. Would it be so bad to do so. HUH?"


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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OfflineBoots
Disenchanted
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Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7593529 - 11/04/07 06:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'd like to commit murder at least once in my life, but I doubt it would be for any cause.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7593679 - 11/04/07 07:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'd like to kill this type of thread.:thumbup: Does that count?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinemikebart101
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Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Icelander]
    #7593975 - 11/04/07 10:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I do not condone killing another human being out of propagated passion; i.e. modern warfare. I am asking a bigger question. Would you be capable of killing? Would you kill to protect your family, your house, your physical country...?

What I am driving at is, if you truly believe in something, live for it, and are willing to die in the name of it, could you kill for it?


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Registered: 04/27/03
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7594008 - 11/04/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes,
If you believe someone is going to kill you then you kill them first.

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Offlinemikebart101
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Registered: 08/01/06
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Ego Death]
    #7594037 - 11/04/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps the greatest lack of strength I have ever seen in history was the 1960's movement against the government. Millions of people beleived and knew what had to be done but were unwilling to kill in the name of it. They lived for change and some died for this change.

If all the hippy's and college students had taken up arms they would have easily defeated this government 40 years ago. Its happening again. The people are coming together, but will they finally find "the strength, the strength" (Kurtz) to defend freedom at all costs.

Our forefathers killed people. George Washington, our first fucking president, killed in the name of freedom!


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7594332 - 11/04/07 12:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

They didn't kill anyone, but the Weather Underground did a lot of bombings in the 60's. The Symbionese Liberation Army killed some people in the early 70's. Not everyone was a pacifist back then. Sure, they had weak politics (there was way too much of a Maoist influence in radical circles in those days), but they were definitly not the passive hippie that is exclusively remembered about the 60's. :shrug:

Sometimes assasination is an effective tactic, sometimes it's not. It can backfire pretty badly and it's a pretty heavy thing to choose to do. Sometimes it's just the wrong time, sometimes it's just the wrong move. It's a hard call. I don't, however, think it's always morally wrong - just a really big deal and not something to be taken lightly or done gratuitously.

But realistically, if all the students and hippies had taken up arms in the 60's, they may have been able to take out the government but the military would likely have thrown thier weight around and installed a military dictatorship. The thing about the right wing is that they are usually really well organized. Although I suppose if there had been a real revolutionary break, they may have been supported by Soviet Russia...that would have been a pretty crazy historical shift! :eek:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7594462 - 11/04/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mikebart101 said:
Perhaps the greatest lack of strength I have ever seen in history was the 1960's movement against the government. Millions of people believed and knew what had to be done but were unwilling to kill in the name of it. They lived for change and some died for this change.

If all the hippy's and college students had taken up arms they would have easily defeated this government 40 years ago. Its happening again. The people are coming together, but will they finally find "the strength, the strength" (Kurtz) to defend freedom at all costs.

Our forefathers killed people. George Washington, our first fucking president, killed in the name of freedom!




Untrained hippies "easily" defeating the American Govt? Not so fast dude. There was limited support for these hippies ideas among the population at large not to mention defeating a trained military. Don't forget the rednecks. Most of the "hippies" were undisciplined and untrained stoners. I was there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinemikebart101
Bromden
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Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Icelander]
    #7594509 - 11/04/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I do not see stoners leading this new contemporary movement. Many people you run into on the street, people who do not do drugs, feel that the government must be fixed. Times are really changing. If anything, the 1960s showed people what must be done if such an event took place again.

If we invade Iran, almost all of our military force will be abroad. There will be no military to defeat here. If a draft is introduced, I can see things happening even faster.

Question:
Were there any military revolts during Vietnam, in which trained hippies, who didn't want to go to war and had the military skill, did any of them try to overthrow the military from within? They had the training, the weapons, and the heart. I have never heard of any Vietnam Vet that liked fighting in Vietnam. Why didn't the soldiers come together and start killing officers and high ranking officials?


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: mikebart101]
    #7594712 - 11/04/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mikebart101 said:
I do not see stoners leading this new contemporary movement. Many people you run into on the street, people who do not do drugs, feel that the government must be fixed. Times are really changing. If anything, the 1960s showed people what must be done if such an event took place again.

If we invade Iran, almost all of our military force will be abroad. There will be no military to defeat here. If a draft is introduced, I can see things happening even faster.

Question:
Were there any military revolts during Vietnam, in which trained hippies, who didn't want to go to war and had the military skill, did any of them try to overthrow the military from within? They had the training, the weapons, and the heart. I have never heard of any Vietnam Vet that liked fighting in Vietnam. Why didn't the soldiers come together and start killing officers and high ranking officials?




I think the problem here is you don't have a sense of history because you are young. I posted on this and said that for most humans history begins and ends with their personal experience.

feel that the government must be fixed. Times are really changing.

This is what I'm talking about. The same things are true of each generation and your post here comes right out of my youth.

As to anyone revolting against the Govt with arms. That is much more unlikely than you imagine. Even those who believe that things are wrong choose, because of cultural programming or fear to continue to try to change the system through the system. IMO this never works in any major way. The matrix of this culture is designed to incorporate dissent into it's continued status quo.

I will quote Mr. Natural for the umpteenth time here. "Twas ever thus"


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMinot_6805
Stranger
Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 17
Last seen: 11 years, 15 days
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Icelander]
    #7594760 - 11/04/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I believe plain and simple that you need to meet things with love and you cannot murder out of love. You can murder out of hate, fear and a closed mind but these routes usually lead to worse and worse outcomes. So to answer your question no I could not kill for anything and if I must die because I wont kill then so be it.

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InvisibleYrtlzmo
Female
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 2,623
. [Re: Minot_6805]
    #7594857 - 11/04/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

.

Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:02 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #7594871 - 11/04/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think that under certain situations I would be able to overcome my survival instinct and let someone kill me. The older I get the easier this becomes for me.I have a different outlook on my personal survival now.

Now of course when you come down to it is when you really find out the truth, so I'll have to get back to you on this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinebeneath
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Registered: 10/30/07
Posts: 1,239
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Icelander]
    #7594952 - 11/04/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

if someone was going to kill me i would try to kill them first, isn't that what survival is?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: beneath]
    #7594967 - 11/04/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yup


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: Ego Death]
    #7596029 - 11/04/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
If you believe someone is going to kill you then you kill them first.





What if you believe that EVERYONE is trying to kill you.....?    :smirk:

:tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineMinot_6805
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Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 17
Last seen: 11 years, 15 days
Re: The Greatest of Questions [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7596641 - 11/04/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If someone is trying to kill me I would try to stop them. Not try to kill them, Just cuz someone is screaming at you doesnt mean you have to scream back you can talk to them in a normal tone and try to work things out.

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