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 tahoe
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Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
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 Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? Which one is this??? 
#7594033 - 11/04/07 10:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do not usually big deal the whole correct ID thing when it comes to this new bay area species. I consider there to be 2 main ps species in the bay, cyans and our fib/cyclone/friscosa hybrid thing. I usually lump the fibs/cyclone/friscosas together until there is some published work saying that they are different. Which I am sure they are microscopically but this isnt the point of this post.
So these cyanofibrillosa things are popping up everywhere in the bay and in sacramento. They are super adaptive.
Two seasons ago I had a buddy stop by a spot in the bay and check for mushrooms. He came back with a handfull of cyans.
Last season this area was a heavy producer, but they seemed to be fibs. This was one of the reasons we started thinking that these things were taking over.
So I cloned one and made a shit load of spawn. The mycelium on the pettri and spawn would bruise just looking at it. Which kind of kept me thinking that they were the cyanofibrillosa var san francisco.
So now this little project that I started is fruiting heavily and some of the fruits are maturing nicely for 80 degree temps. After picking a mature one today and seeing the cap and looking at all the litle ones with their lumpy caps i am starting to wonder if these are cyans and not cyanofibrillosa var san francisco. These musrooms have a pellicle which I believe cyans and fibs have but the cyanofibrillosa var san francisco do not have. So basically Curecat has me second guessing my patch by getting me interested in microscopic/macroscopic features. What do you folk think???
The so called fib var san franciso which I just may have answered my own question. The pic is just for comparison
The patch from which the clone was made
Same patch
The petri, Nothing got mixed up. 4 Sure
A mature specimen. I will let a few get overly mature to see what the cap does
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
Edited by tahoe (11/04/07 02:50 PM)
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cactu
culture and magic
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Posts: 3,913
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7594604 - 11/04/07 01:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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great work . i´becoming interest in all this variant in the pacific North west, so they do grow in all stuff , that is cedar, ha ha ,
i hope i can grow something like that well see, if i´m lucky this winter. i always get to grow the mycelium but not enough to fruit.
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: cactu]
#7594624 - 11/04/07 01:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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its not cedar, its doug fir
Its this stuff. People are using this instead of bark for landscaping. Its just left over doug fir from the mills that is dyed red, black, and brown. Its great news for mushrooms hunters. Sometimes you can find little chunnks of 2x4 mixed in with this stuff.
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
Edited by tahoe (11/04/07 01:35 PM)
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cactu
culture and magic
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Posts: 3,913
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7594629 - 11/04/07 01:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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makes sense
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: cactu]
#7598288 - 11/05/07 12:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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i guess I didnt ask the question correctly. What the hell is this thing???
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7598515 - 11/05/07 01:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah tell me about it, we should do our own taxonomic group when we can name all the specie that are found, regardless of the patience of the great mycologist, that sometime takes year or decades to have an answer, i guess i´m not gonna live that long , we should start a new investigation club to name all the new species out there , try to cultivate then , and show then we can do better, is just we can´t name then that all the difference , but i guess that have to change for good , too many new species or variant , mushrooms are evolving they don´t understand that ,when they are gona begging to use DNA to catch all the evolution, and end all those missing link or miss interpretation, that i guess can occur in the microscope sometimes when the collection is scarce or damage, you can´t beat DNA , but until then we should make our guerrilla studies , and you know what AS LONG AS YOU KEEP POST IN I GONNA KEEP LOOKING.
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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 Workman
Psilocybe Microscopist
Registered: 03/01/01
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Loc: Washington, USA
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7598611 - 11/05/07 01:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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The only way you can get an answer is to look at the microscopic features (and maybe not even then). It looks to be closely related to Psilocybe cyanescens/Cyclone complex. I doubt it is P. cyanofibrillosa.
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Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification  
Edited by Workman (11/05/07 02:54 PM)
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger
Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7598685 - 11/05/07 02:24 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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My buddy demolished his house, rented a tub grinder. He ground up all the pine and fir lumber. Then took subaeruginosa and spawned it. Didn't fruit the first year, second season had a couple. From what he told me it didn't get moving till the third year. The mycelium was slow compared to how it grown on fresh hardwood chips.
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faceofbear
the witch-doctorlife
Registered: 10/15/07
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Cheezit]
#7599372 - 11/05/07 05:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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these look a lot what i've been finding next to my (small) cyanescen patch in southern california.
the bluing is very pronounced (in a very psilocybe way), but i can't bring myself to trust them.
they are definitely distinct from the cyans they grow next to, the caps do not flatten/turn wavy at all.
i will post pics when possible!
Edited by faceofbear (11/05/07 05:30 PM)
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: faceofbear]
#7600033 - 11/05/07 08:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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faceofbear
the witch-doctorlife
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7601254 - 11/06/07 01:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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very pretty.
i like the last one especially...they're creeping up to take over!
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: faceofbear]
#7601808 - 11/06/07 09:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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pics from this morning i do not think they are cyanescens or fibs now.
--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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mattso
Malcontent
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7601978 - 11/06/07 10:35 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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its neato!
dunno the variety spcifics, but it sure looks like a cyanofibrilosa with a wavy-margin growth habit.
That pale margin is not something you'd see on a cyanescens, and the caps seem to want to stay hemispheric...
Sounds funny, but -
Have you eaten them? Their relative potency will tell the story of whether they're cyanescens or cyanofibrilosa... if those are the only two contenders.... (which I suspect they are)
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"Humanity is entering into a time of consequences" ---
- Winston Churchill
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mattso
Malcontent
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: mattso]
#7601997 - 11/06/07 10:39 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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on the other hand... there is some significant Blueing going on in one of those pics....
Hmmm.
(scratching chin)
Wish I was one of those Sciency types!
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"Humanity is entering into a time of consequences" ---
- Winston Churchill
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: mattso]
#7602147 - 11/06/07 11:15 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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The white rhizomorphs that go out in all directions from the base of the stipe are taxonomically significant.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7602156 - 11/06/07 11:17 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
The white rhizomorphs that go out in all directions from the base of the stipe are taxonomically significant.
In which way?
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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elflord420
bringer of thedawn
Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 281
Loc: washington
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7602201 - 11/06/07 11:26 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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very interesting, good find! 
but, you could probably safely assume that thoes are not P. Cyans...
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Dont ever eat mushrooms and watch Total Recall
Edited by elflord420 (11/06/07 11:28 AM)
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: elflord420]
#7602346 - 11/06/07 11:57 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I see a resemblance with the supposed friscosa people have found in the bay area. with the larger size and bulbous caps. they should get a lot bigger too if they are.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7604036 - 11/06/07 06:32 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
The white rhizomorphs that go out in all directions from the base of the stipe are taxonomically significant.
In which way?
Last week I read the beginning of Guzman's 1983 monograph The Genus Psilocybe and I thought it was fascinating. Instead of trying to explain what has taxonomic value and what doesn't (its kind of arbitrary), I'll post Guzman's discussion of the issue. Its pretty interesting stuff and a good reminder of how futile it is to try to stick exact names onto something that evolves as quickly as mushrooms.
Since you are in california I bet you can get The Genus Psilocybe from link+ interlibrary loan. In a month when I return it.
The answer to your question is around the middle of the third page.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7604092 - 11/06/07 06:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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can we get a copyright on that??
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7604100 - 11/06/07 06:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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> can we get a copyright on that??
I have posted it legally for educational use under the fair use clause, 17 U.S.C § 107.
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auweia
mountain biking
Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7604110 - 11/06/07 06:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Have You Seen the Saucers? - Jefferson Airplane
Edited by auweia (01/17/08 03:12 PM)
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7604114 - 11/06/07 06:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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ohh, that is the updated clause. My legal reference book is a little older 
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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Workman
Psilocybe Microscopist
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Posts: 3,568
Loc: Washington, USA
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7606150 - 11/07/07 09:57 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hehe, it is tough to get exact species sometimes. It is much easier pinning them down to Section (via Guzman) which can at least tell you what it is closely related to. Its not always obvious what you have until its under the scope.
The Genus Psilocybe is a very useful text but its outdated. Even the Suppliment to the Genus Psilocybe is getting outdated as more and more species are being discovered and described. I hope Guzman kicks out a new one pretty soon.
--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
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Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Workman]
#7606171 - 11/07/07 10:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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20 minutes ago
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7606482 - 11/07/07 11:17 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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well we know that they are not cyanescens
Here is a little harvest
--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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Subbedhunter420
Solitary Hunter
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7606497 - 11/07/07 11:22 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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DAYUM those are some blue little bastards.
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Subbedhunter420]
#7607170 - 11/07/07 02:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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i will love to see that you pull a individual, to see the rishomorfs in the base of the stem or if lack of some as Alan point out that is a taxonomic feature many people don't take into consideration.
, does azurescens can show this rhizomorphs in the base of the stem or only cyanescens, i mean does any one have seem this more often in cultivated patch , i have a copy of the genus psilocybe(thank you prankter239) and was fascinated also by the interpretation of the distribution and habitat all the species have, is clear that also Paul stamen ts base on dose interpretation , i know azures can show also the rhizomorph it said in those book , but for example the friscosa also have this rhizomorph and what the other wood lover cyanofribrillosa, stuntzii, .
also did you leave some to drop spores and mature and show more differences will be cool to see how they change in mature stage if the uncurled or uplift , wherever, if the become more wavy , don´t know .. how do they smell like, farinaceous,maybe
all my best.
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: cactu]
#7607197 - 11/07/07 02:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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oh there will be plenty more to drop spores. A few of the ones I picked were dropping spores. I will let some over ripen
--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
|
Strophariaceae
mycologist
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Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Workman]
#7893163 - 01/17/08 01:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Workman said:
The only way you can get an answer is to look at the microscopic features (and maybe not even then). It looks to be closely related to Psilocybe cyanescens/Cyclone complex. I doubt it is P. cyanofibrillosa.
I agree with you, Workman. Unless the original collections described by Stametes and Guzman were utterly mis-described, the P. "cyanofranciscana" that we've been seeing in California is clearly not the same thing. If I had to put it into a named, described species, it would definitely be Psilocybe cyanescens – the micormorphology and habitat are pretty much identical The macromorphology is different, but close.
If I had to give "cyanofranciscana" a formal taxonomic rank, it would be "form", which says only that its a morphological varient, and doesn't imply its truly a different species, or even subspecies. It might very well be, but I'd have to see more evidence of that. So if I get a chance to publish this thing, I would simply call it 'Psilocybe cyanescens form franciscana' or even 'Psilocybe cyanescens form "franciscana"'.
Edited by Strophariaceae (01/17/08 01:57 PM)
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Strophariaceae
mycologist
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: faceofbear]
#7893207 - 01/17/08 02:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
faceofbear said:
these look a lot what i've been finding next to my (small) cyanescen patch in southern california.
In SoCal? I've heard rumors that cyans are there, but know precious little about their distribution in that region. I'm not asking for exact locations or anything close to that, but what city are you finding them in?
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Strophariaceae
mycologist
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: mattso]
#7893246 - 01/17/08 02:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dunno the variety spcifics, but it sure looks like a cyanofibrilosa with a wavy-margin growth habit.
OK, but how many people who say that Psilocybe "cyanofranciscans" looks like Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa have actually seen both confirmed collections of P. cyanofibrillosa from Washington and collections of Psilocybe "cyanofranciscans" from California?
I think there's a lot of misidentification going on, based on identifying a mushroom growing in one region based on descriptions and photos (and entirely macromorphological ones, at that) from another.
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auweia
mountain biking
Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Strophariaceae]
#7893435 - 01/17/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Strophariaceae said:
If I had to give "cyanofranciscana" a formal taxonomic rank, it would be "form", which says only that its a morphological varient, and doesn't imply its truly a different species, or even subspecies. It might very well be, but I'd have to see more evidence of that. So if I get a chance to publish this thing, I would simply call it 'Psilocybe cyanescens form franciscana' or even 'Psilocybe cyanescens form "franciscana"'.
just about exactly what I've seen in the wild over the years. matches cyans in every way except 'form'
the only other difference I've ever noticed is that friscosas are slightly less dense, and that's something very hard to describe and it's something you can feel with your fingers. sort of like the cheese puffs of cyans....a little flakier when dried
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tahoe
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: auweia]
#7893671 - 01/17/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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i notice that they are denser than cyans but cyans are more solid.
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
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sui
I love you.
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 29,290
Loc: Cali, Contra Costa Co. 
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: tahoe]
#7893713 - 01/17/08 04:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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and they dont get as tall and seem to form clusters moreso than cyans. Cap color is a bit lighter too generally.
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"There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
Edited by sui (01/17/08 04:14 PM)
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CureCat
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Posts: 14,058
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Re: Ps cyanofibrillosa vs Ps Cyanescens vs Ps cyanofibrillosa var san francisco???? [Re: Strophariaceae]
#7897517 - 01/18/08 01:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Strophariaceae said:
Quote:
faceofbear said:
these look a lot what i've been finding next to my (small) cyanescen patch in southern california.
In SoCal? I've heard rumors that cyans are there, but know precious little about their distribution in that region. I'm not asking for exact locations or anything close to that, but what city are you finding them in?
Faceofbear is the guy I was telling you about, that found Ps. cyanescens in LA. Pretty crazy.
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