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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :)
#7593571 - 11/04/07 06:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi! I am de-lurking (and a little nervous about doing so) after several months of reading and reading and reading. I am grateful for this forum, and would appreciate any input.
I am following the PF Tek and using vermiculite and brown rice flour along with Cambodian-strain spores. So far so good. It's been about a month, and my six little half-pint jars are fully colonized with no signs of contamination. The mycelium looks healthy and strong.
A week ago, I moved my jars from the dark womb of my basement to a bookshelf in the living room so that they can receive the requisite amount of indirect light. I am not seeing any pins, and after reading so many different accounts from other growers, I am not sure if I should birth the cakes now or wait until I see pins.
Help?
Thank you so kindly, littlebirdie
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7593573 - 11/04/07 06:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wait a week after full colonization and then birth them.
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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: TurntableJunky]
#7593595 - 11/04/07 07:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks, turntable junky. I greatly appreciate the input. I'll be sure to post photos once something happens - I've been documenting the entire process so that I could learn from my own attempt.
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer



Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 617
Loc: Igloo's and polar bears
Last seen: 16 years, 1 day
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7593612 - 11/04/07 07:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's taking so long for pin formation because of the lack of FAE, invitro pinning a cake in a jar does not allow for much air exchange at all, hence the prolonged time from birth to fruiting that you are experiencing. Be patience, it will come.
A better way to fruit your cakes would be to get a big, a try with a 4inch layer of perlite and simply cutt out a section on the oven bag, glue a tyvek filter in place and tightly fit the bag over your container of perlite with the cakes.
Simple automated cake fruiting.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Pr0_X]
#7593628 - 11/04/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pr0_X, that sounds like a simple and elegant solution. Should I moisturize the perlite at all? I'm in NE New Mexico, and at the moment it's fairly dry, very low humidity.
Thank you for your assistance.
littlebirdie
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Pr0_X]
#7593632 - 11/04/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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that's an intesting method I might try that at some point
after full colinisation. wait a week. then take the cake out of the jar. wash under the tap removing the dry verm barrier. dunk the cakes in a pot of water for 24 hours to rehydrate.
while u r dunking make ur fruiting chamber. this will provide humidity. I recommend the shotgun fc easy make and no expensive equipment.
once u have dunked. wash again under tap and roll in dry verm. put into fc sitting the cake on a jar lid.
fan the chamber out 6 times a day. or more if u wish (the more fae the better. very important pinning triger) also u will want to mist the cakes so the dry verm soakes up water and acts like a casing layer.
generaly misting directly is bad but if the cake is well covered in verm it will soak up thhe water.
you will also want 12/12 light. indirect sun is fine.
I have read about waiting for pins in the jar before, I think this is out dates. u need lots of fae to initiate pins.
also its a good idea to stop misting when u see primordia and knots. once they develop into pins with brown/red heads u can start misting.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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urayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7593638 - 11/04/07 07:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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A month is a little on the long side for colonization of a half-pint, depending on conditions you might find that the jars are a bit on the dry side at this point, which may slow pinning significantly. If you are comfortable with the level of colonization (and have given them a little extra time for internal colonization in the middle) then you are probably safe to move on to birthing them and feeding them some water. With ample fresh air and humidity you should hopefully see good news in no time.
Good luck
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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: urayasan]
#7593653 - 11/04/07 07:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the wonderful help, everyone. I am wondering if I need to use distilled water. I don't want to introduce any contaminants. Maybe I should boil water first and let it cool. I think I'll try that.
The mycelium truly is beautiful. I love the pattern of swirls and streams it has built.
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urayasan
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7593683 - 11/04/07 07:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Tap water should be ok, but you have to judge for yourself its quality. Boiling doesn't hurt but make sure it is completely cooled before you go dunking in it. If you're using damp perlite for humidification you probably don't need to worry about the water quality so much for that. Keep in mind that healthy mycelium does a good job at defending against contaminations, and thoroughly colonized substrate is of only moderate concern.
And you mentioned extremely dry New Mexico air, that would definitely explain a possible dryness-related slowdown in your cycle here. I'm not sure what you're thinking of doing exactly for a fruiting chamber, but I can only suggest that you pay extra attention to the humidity, you might have more trouble than most keeping that at the high levels which are so important for success. Lots of humidity and lots of fresh air, in balance, will win the day.
You sound like you have your senses about you, I'm sure you'll be successful.
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer



Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 617
Loc: Igloo's and polar bears
Last seen: 16 years, 1 day
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: urayasan]
#7596577 - 11/04/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bring your water to a five minute boil prior to use, this is to ensure all excess chemicals are evaporated.... I have never had problems with water straight out of the tap but then again Ive always boiled my water from day one.
The environment can play a factor if you are fruiting in open air but seeing as your cakes are still in the jar's the moisture from the cakes provide more then enough R.H for your cakes to pin and grow, to answer your question about the perlite, yes, it needs to be "moist"
Abit tired right now, sorry if i overlooked any of your questions...
I'd recommend crumbling and casing your cakes from now on, not only does it drop the need for overall humidity to be 80% R.H from 92%+ R.H but it also increases the surface area for your mushrooms, giving off in one flush what it would take three flushes from a cake.
I don't know why people still use whole cakes... meh, must be preference. Take care.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Pr0_X]
#7597203 - 11/05/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Remember that dunking has to be done in the fridge to avoid contamination, and do not go over 24 hours, 18 is enough.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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urayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Nibin]
#7597232 - 11/05/07 01:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said: Remember that dunking has to be done in the fridge to avoid contamination, and do not go over 24 hours, 18 is enough.
I think "has to" is a bit strong, it is completely acceptable to do dunking in a sink, bathtub or other water source. Just leave the water flowing slightly so there is a mild flushing action during the process to keep bacteria from blooming. Depending on the cleanliness of your fridge, this may be a much better choice. The fridge works, the cold providing a buffer to keep bacterial growth down, but it is by no means required.
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: urayasan]
#7597239 - 11/05/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well, even though as you say, it can be done out of the fridge, I think that a nice clean tupperware container in a fridge (who cares how filthy it is if it is the sealed container) is much much better than dunking in a sink, which can be close to filthy sponges etc, and which doesn't require you to leave your water running for 18 hours as that is really wasteful.
PS: Remember that the reason it "has to" be done in the fridge is to avoid contamination, it has nothing to do with cold shocking, which doesn't work for cubes.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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urayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Nibin]
#7597245 - 11/05/07 01:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said:
PS: Remember that the reason it "has to" be done in the fridge is to avoid contamination, it has nothing to do with cold shocking, which doesn't work for cubes.
That can't be said enough, it seems like the cold-shock idea just refuses to go away
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Glacier Creek
The Chef


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7597257 - 11/05/07 01:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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[quote
The mycelium truly is beautiful. I love the pattern of swirls and streams it has built.
This will take on a entirely new beauty when you start strain isolations. I can never get over how I feel like I am viewing an concious being when I see different mycelium strains growing together in a jar. A true "colony". What a wonderful art/science we are all a part of.
I will just never get over this site and the wonderful people who contribute to it. I am a new member myself, and although I am in no way new to mushroom cultivation or hunting, I feel as though I have just been reborn as a mycologist because of the all wonderful new ideas, and techniques being discussed here daily. I am sure I speak for most of us shroomery noobs when I say that this site really has in some way changed our lives. I am forever greatful. Good luck, and keep the new ideas coming! Home mushroom cultivation is still very much in it's infancy, and new methods are out there waiting to be posted!
--------------------
  Google "Earthly Info" to find my mushroom recipes. #1 baby.. yeah... WARNING: All messages posted under this profile are actually algorithmicly generated by an AI computer program. No truth or actual events are being generated, and as a result cannot be investigated for thier validity. (message 2345433)
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urayasan
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: Glacier Creek]
#7597276 - 11/05/07 02:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well said Glacier, I feel the same way. I had lurked for nearly 2 years before making a post, reading the site unregistered for a year and then finally making an account, but not posting until more than a year after that! It's kind of weird finally speaking with some of the folks here, people I've never talked to before are like family it seems. It has really given me a boost in passion, even though I too am not new to the hobby. This site is really a great place, and not just for the wealth of information it offers.
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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: urayasan]
#7597535 - 11/05/07 07:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This exchange is so helpful to me! I can't begin to tell each of you how much this is clarifying what I've read in the forums. And you're right - I was convinced I had to cold-shock after reading so many admonitions to do so.
It's not too late for me to crumble the cakes and do the casing method... at least I don't think it is. I am planning on using a plastic tub as a fruiting chamber, with a plastic cover (oven bag) and a filter as was suggested above. I am going to get that together today.
If I do the casing method, do I still dunk the cakes? I need to read through this thread again more carefully! So much information.
I am actually down with the flu, ugh, and home from school today. I'm a math and science teacher - seventh and eighth grades - and am using my little experience to come up with a fun curriculum to teach the life cycle and energy exchange through a system. Of course I'll choose a different mushroom variety for experimentation in the classroom. :p
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7597537 - 11/05/07 07:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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How about yellow oyster mushrooms, they are very pretty when they fruit, then u can put them in your diiner, taste delicious fried in butter.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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urayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: littlebirdie]
#7597554 - 11/05/07 07:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The mycelium will likely be pretty thirsty now, so regardless of what you do it is probably best to hydrate them with a dunk. Do not feel obligated to case them though, you will get acceptable results if you choose to keep it simple and just go the standard route, that's entirely up to you.
And I should add that you should keep in mind that if you do cakes, your ideal plan would be to dunk and "roll," that is rolling in dry vermiculite and then placing them in the fruiting chamber, followed by misting to hydrate the vermiculite. This serves as a mini-casing on each cake which will boost humidity and provide extra water for the growth.
Edited by urayasan (11/05/07 07:26 AM)
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littlebirdie
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 285
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Re: My first attempt: have fully colonized jars, but now I'm a little confused :) [Re: urayasan]
#7597780 - 11/05/07 09:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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veda_sticks, I love the idea of cultivating oyster mushrooms in class! Where I live, most families do hunt mushrooms in the woods. The practice goes back hundreds of years. There is a deep respect and love of nature, and of mushrooms in general here. Illustrating the life cycle of fruiting fungus is definitely on my agenda for the spring semester. We already did some fieldwork early in the fall where we collected shaggy manes and had the school kitchen cook them up.
urayasan, okay, dunk. I prepared water and am dunking them now. I think I'll go ahead and fruit from the cakes as I don't have any coir, and by the time I order some and it arrives ('cause I live in the middle of nowhere and they don't sell that in any local store...) it will be too late. So cakes it is!
Now I'm going to order some spore syringes of edibles for my class. After a little research, that is.
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