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Invisiblepong
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Cactus ID please
    #7590465 - 11/03/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hey all.

i recently stumbled upon a bunch of cacti growing and i am suspicious that one of them is a san pedro cactus.

this one.








and is this maybe a peruvian torch?









anyways i was just curious.

if this breaks a rule please just delete it. thanks.


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Offlinehighdroponics
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7590629 - 11/03/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

first one is pedro, second one is a torch, maybe a cuzcoensis.


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Edited by highdroponics (11/03/07 10:38 AM)


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: highdroponics]
    #7590656 - 11/03/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the first one looks like a pedro and the second is a cuzcoensis


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: royer]
    #7590736 - 11/03/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

sweet

:borat:

great success!!!
:hehehe:


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7590904 - 11/03/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

nice find :cool:
unless someone owns them.


Edited by cpw1971 (11/03/07 12:32 PM)


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7590930 - 11/03/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the state of california owns them.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7590949 - 11/03/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

now that i know what they look like im bound to find more. it seems as if they use cacti alot around here for decorative purposes


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7591231 - 11/03/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

no one will notice if u grab a few cuts...
looks like someone else has taken a few from that pedro in the past... :yesnod:


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7591363 - 11/03/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

well since the state owns them.....
    get the axe :rockon:


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7592030 - 11/03/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:toomuchacid:


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606217 - 11/07/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

second opinion plz? i dont want to cut these if they are not active, but the fact that cuttings have been taken makes me pretty sure.


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606347 - 11/07/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

they are active. pachanoi & cuzcoensis as stated above.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7606391 - 11/07/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

werd i dont know why i doubted, it just seems too good to be true


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606435 - 11/07/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

you lucky bastard :tongue:
  hey whats the height on those anyways???
  and uare,
  you say cuzco's are active?? I thought they weren't??


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606436 - 11/07/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
the state of california owns them.



Take them. :hehehe:


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606454 - 11/07/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the older the part of the cactus the more mesc?

or does it not matter?


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606471 - 11/07/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Take it all, now. Go. Before one of those damn deadheads gets it first.


Edited by Adagio (11/07/07 11:17 AM)


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606483 - 11/07/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hmmmmn, maybe its time for some mescaline hcl.....


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606487 - 11/07/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Extraction? Woo hoo :hamsterdance:


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Offline2end4
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606492 - 11/07/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

VERY NICE!!
:borat:


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: 2end4]
    #7606504 - 11/07/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah if i can find the ingredients and somewhere to preform the evap. ill def do an extraction!!!!

then i will dose mad people!!!


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606531 - 11/07/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder how many grams(or ounces) it would be if you skinned ALL that cactus and powdered it.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606664 - 11/07/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

grams of cactus? or mescaline?


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606668 - 11/07/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Cactus.


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606669 - 11/07/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, both :smirk:


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7606682 - 11/07/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i have until may to do this. i will be on the lookout for more cacti planted on state ground.

in may i will be at a 3 day hippie festival. i want to trip with people there it will be AWESOME!!

i even read winter is the best time to cut these for potency?

any truth in this or is it just rumor like these cubensis are more visual LOL i cant believe i bought that shit in the begining


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: pong]
    #7606694 - 11/07/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
i even read winter is the best time to cut these for potency?



I don't know if there's any truth to that....


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7606775 - 11/07/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
  and uare,
  you say cuzco's are active?? I thought they weren't??




all cacti are active to some degree :tongue:


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7606929 - 11/07/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah I read somewhere the other day the even Pereskiopsis were lightly active.
but you know what I mean. I mean at least almost as active as Pedros?? I dunno I read somewhere about people getting cuzcos that were supposed to be Torches and they ate a few feet and notta.


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7607076 - 11/07/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

NOT all cacti are active.
That is absurd.
If you mean all trichos are active you would be closer to the truth but still not right on.

kk242 torches are reported to be inactive.
And I'm sure some other heavily inbred nursery strains are inactive as well.


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: El Zorro]
    #7607086 - 11/07/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

kk242 are now said to be cuzos and not torchs


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: El Zorro]
    #7607089 - 11/07/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hey thats what I read, it was the kk242 that people ate a few feet of with no effects :thumbup:


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: royer]
    #7607093 - 11/07/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

and thats why I was thinking cuzco's, because Cuzco's and KK242 are the same :tongue:
  maybe they should be  CC242's???  lol


Edited by cpw1971 (11/07/07 02:00 PM)


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7607135 - 11/07/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

El Zorro said:
NOT all cacti are active.
That is absurd.




it is true that the majority, if not all cacti contain active alkaloids,
just the majority have such low concentrations that they are useless as a means of tripping.

heres some alkaloid info for ya cpw...





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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7607172 - 11/07/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hmmm it says that San Pedro is as potent as Bridgesii and that Peruvianus is less potent??
  all I know is that that Bridgesii kicked the living shit outta me the other day :tongue:


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7607242 - 11/07/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

uarewotueat said:
Quote:

El Zorro said:
NOT all cacti are active.
That is absurd.




it is true that the majority, if not all cacti contain active alkaloids,
just the majority have such low concentrations that they are useless as a means of tripping.

heres some alkaloid info for ya cpw...








That list is all trichos.

It is absurd to say that all cacti are active.

c'mon


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: El Zorro]
    #7607326 - 11/07/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

El Zorro said:
That list is all trichos.

It is absurd to say that all cacti are active.

c'mon




all cacti contain active alkaloids, simple as that.
yes that list is trichocereus cos it is relevant to the discussion...
u could trip on myrtillocactus geometrizans if u ate like a mile of it...


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OfflineEl Zorro
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7607590 - 11/07/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My research does not bear this out to be true.

My research suggests that MOST cacti produce alkaloids and that of these
the pharmacological activity of most of these is unknown.

So, as for ALL cacti being psychoactive, I don't believe it.


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7607623 - 11/07/07 04:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

uarewotueat said:
all cacti contain active alkaloids, simple as that.



Do you have a source?


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7607847 - 11/07/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

to be completely honest with u, i couldnt really give a fuck, im into growing cacti for their beauty, not as a means of tripping...
the general consensus is that cacti produce alkaloids as a means of defence from predation, perhaps the activity of some of those alkaloids is undetermined at present :shrug:

here are some sources and things u might like to read.


source
Quote:

The phytochemistry of the cacti is also distinct. They contain rare primary compounds and unique secondary metabolites. First, the pigment compounds known as betacyanins (or betalains) are found in only a few orders of flowering plants. All other angiosperms contain either flavanoids, flavonols, or anthocyanins. Betacyanins are reddish compounds of the fruits and flowers, which are similar to anthocyanins but more complex due to their aromatic (nitrogen-containing) constituents. Other than in the cacti, betacyanins are found in the Chenopodiaceae (goosefoot and beet) and Portulacaceae (portulaca) families. The cacti also contain alkaloids, small organic compounds containing heterocyclic nitrogen. These secondary metabolites, derived from amino acids and used to move nitrogen throughout the plant, serve allelopathic functions to deter competing plants and plant eaters. Accumulating over time, they are found in highest potencies in the older plants. Because alkaloids are often bitter-tasting and or poisonous, many herbivores would rather starve than eat plants containing them. Also, since alkaloids are expelled through the plant' s roots, many nearby plants are outcompeted for light and water because they are chemically unable to process the toxins produced by their neighbors. There are, however, certain organisms (usually humans) that can metabolize these compounds and often enjoy them! Caffeine, nicotine, cocaine, and all hallucinogenic drugs contain alkaloids. Mescaline, the most commonly known alkaloid produced by the cacti, has been used in traditional religious settings by North and South American Indian tribes for thousands of years. It and other recreational and medicinal cacti will be discussed in the next section.





source
Quote:

There are several different methods of increasing the concentrations of alkaloids in most if not all species of Cactus. One of the main defenses of Cacti is to increase the production of protective alkaloids in response to numerous external stresses. The growing Cactus plant can be "stressed" in a number of ways to help increase the concentration of alkaloids prior to harvest. It should be noted that, since Cacti have a slow metabolism, it may take an entire growing season of stress to significantly affect alkaloid levels. Here are some of the most common and widely tested methods:




a list of species that are considered "narcotic"


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7607937 - 11/07/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was just wondering. Cacti are beautiful indeed, I would never hurt an L. Williamsii just to "trip", even if it was home cultivated and not from the wild. Trichs are another story,though. :grin:


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: Robo]
    #7608099 - 11/07/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

heheh dont get me wrong, i have no problem with people eating cacti, so long as they do so responsibly... for example: not harvesting from wild populations.

my hat goes off to anyone who grows their own cacti for consumption, im quite sure that they will never consume all they have and therefore they are contributing to the propagation and proliferation of species, despite munching plenty in the process :yesnod:


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7608343 - 11/07/07 06:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
and thats why I was thinking cuzco's, because Cuzco's and KK242 are the same :tongue:
  maybe they should be  CC242's???  lol




Cuzcoensis is basically a spiney scapegoat cactus.  If someone eats a cactus and it's potent, they say "It must have been a Peruvian".  If they eat one and it was weak or non-active, then they say it was a Cuzcoensis.  I'm sure some of the weak/non-active were probably Cuzcoensis, but I strongly doubt all of them were.  You can't really ID a cactus from it's potency, there are weak peyote out there, should we call them imposters because they didn't live up to our expectations?

KK242 is an identifier used by Karel Knize.  He sells cacti and cacti seeds under that ID, but it isn't one phenotype under that ID like you'd think, there are several.  To show my point, here is one KK242:



Here is another KK242:


A lot of people get jumpy and say KK242 and Cuzcoensis are synonymous.  They are not, several different cacti go under 242, my second pic clearly not looking like a Cuzcoensis.  People also call KK242 inactive but a study of the KK242 variety found the dried plant to contain .82 mescaline, although it doesn't mean all that much seeing how several plants are grouped under 242.  It is not inconceivable though to think that the KK242 that tested .82 could possibly be the phenotype that is presently considered Cuzcoensis.  Food for thought.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: plainswalker]
    #7608570 - 11/07/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah the second pic looks like a long spined Pedro or something. first pic looks like a few of my cacti that I have that are clearly different than a Peruvian Torch.  The new spines are yellow and as they get older they turn white. I have a Torch also and the spines turn dark brown.
 
  but being that the cacti in those pics are so different in age then I am not so sure once the first one gets huge it will look like the second???
  or maybe the person that labeled them was eating too many :crazy2:


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Re: Cactus ID please [Re: cpw1971]
    #7608607 - 11/07/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

When the first one gets bigger it would most likely look very similar to this:



There are more phenotypes under 242 but I'm too lazy to trudge through the web to find them. You get the point though.


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