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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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What's that smell?(Updated with pics)
#7589904 - 11/02/07 11:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alright I'm sure these questions have been answered somewhere at some point in time..BUT...
As the temperature falls here..at night my incubator temp becomes cooler. Well last night I worked late as to build a new glove box and didn't get up early to turn it down. When I did wake, my setup had rose to 98 degrees. I know 05 is getting way to warm but do you think this has spoiled my chances of these jars? I also have a smell coming from two of the jars..it's not really a pungent smell. I don't really know how to explain it..a dank musty sweetness..this good?..bad?..lol.. Anyways thanks in Advance.
P.S. I inoculated on Oct 31st. And I used BRF. I was also wondering how molasses would do rather than honey. Just some questions, thanks! Edwin
-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
Edited by JewelessCaesar (11/12/07 12:12 AM)
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BUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training



Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
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spores reach thermal death at 96f It would be a miracle if they recover.
I would be getting ready to start over, if I were you.
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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: BUDDHA_702]
#7589973 - 11/03/07 12:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alright thanks. I think I'm going to try a LC. Would bacteria still grow after it also reach that temp?..later!
-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
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BUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training



Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
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I'm pretty sure bacteria likes temps around 90-100f
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Don't use an incubator they are not necessary, they increase the chance of con tams and generally result in temperatures that are detrimental to mcyelium growth, as you have found out first hand. If your house gets to cold (which it shouldn't because then you will probably feel to cold) Just use a space heater to heat the room where you store them. Put them on a shelf at least two feet above the ground. In case your wondering anywhere from about 72-78 F is a good incubation temp (im not saying its the optimal range but it will do the job. so called "room temperature is the general guideline).
As you may know cubensis mycelium reaches its peak growth rate at 86 F. But in practice this is difficult to achieve, impossible to measure and in any event speeds the growth of contams more than it speeds the myc growth.
If you insist on using an incubator I would recommend some method that involves a thermostat. A while back I built a TIT incubator using a fish tank heater. The fish tank heater had a built in thermostat so as to keep the water at a constant temperature. But TIT's are bad also because they cause stale (and sometimes overly humid) air which is another factor that can increase the likely hood of contaminants.
Quote:
I also have a smell coming from two of the jars..it's not really a pungent smell. I don't really know how to explain it..a dank musty sweetness..this good?..bad?..lol.. Anyways thanks in Advance.
That smell is almost certainly bacteria, probably resulting from/encouraged by the conditions in your incubator. Those jars should develop visual signs of contamination but until then I would recommend moving those jars away from the rest, if you haven't scrapped that batch yet.
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: KrissKross]
#7590044 - 11/03/07 01:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Meant to include these with the first post but accidentally hit back button and lost some of the text.
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I think I'm going to try a LC
Making an LC will greatly increase your chances of contaminants. Its not a bad learning experience but dont put all your eggs in that basket. If your concerned with producing your own innoculant, I have read that taking spore prints from your mushrooms (when you finally get some, which u surely will if u stick with it) and making syringes is a good way to go about it. There is also a tek where you inject sterile water into a fully colonized pf cake and then draw it back out again. Do some searching if you want more details.
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Would bacteria still grow after it also reach that temp?
They most certainly will and as BUDDHA says I believe in most cases they will actually thrive at those temperatures. Even if those temps are bad for the bacteria they are still horrible because your myc will have absolutely no chance of outgrowing the bacteria.
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BUDDHA_702
Master Mycologist In Training



Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 1,296
Loc: Some Country
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: KrissKross]
#7590049 - 11/03/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KrissKross said: Don't use an incubator they are not necessary, they increase the chance of con tams and generally result in temperatures that are detrimental to mcyelium growth, as you have found out first hand. If your house gets to cold (which it shouldn't because then you will probably feel to cold) Just use a space heater to heat the room where you store them. Put them on a shelf at least two feet above the ground. In case your wondering anywhere from about 72-78 F is a good incubation temp (im not saying its the optimal range but it will do the job. so called "room temperature is the general guideline).
As you may know cubensis mycelium reaches its peak growth rate at 86 F. But in practice this is difficult to achieve, impossible to measure and in any event speeds the growth of contams more than it speeds the myc growth.
If you insist on using an incubator I would recommend some method that involves a thermostat. A while back I built a TIT incubator using a fish tank heater. The fish tank heater had a built in thermostat so as to keep the water at a constant temperature. But TIT's are bad also because they cause stale (and sometimes overly humid) air which is another factor that can increase the likely hood of contaminants.
Quote:
I also have a smell coming from two of the jars..it's not really a pungent smell. I don't really know how to explain it..a dank musty sweetness..this good?..bad?..lol.. Anyways thanks in Advance.
That smell is almost certainly bacteria, probably resulting from/encouraged by the conditions in your incubator. Those jars should develop visual signs of contamination but until then I would recommend moving those jars away from the rest, if you haven't scrapped that batch yet.
I disagree and agree at the same time. In my opinion: While incubators are not necessary they do speed up colonization significantly depending on the strain, witch is a very good thing. But They also are a great place to be if you are bacteria
Edited by BUDDHA_702 (11/03/07 03:28 AM)
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: BUDDHA_702]
#7590085 - 11/03/07 02:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am curious, to what extent do you notice the incubator speeding your colonization? What temperature do you keep your incubator at and what sorts of substrates do you incubate in there? im assuming its either Pfcakes grains or both. If its both do you notice a difference between one substrate and the other?
More importantly I have never read anywhere that different strains prefer/react differently to different temps. What strains do you think benefit the most from an incubator and by how much? Have you tested this properly? did you read it somewhere, if so do you have a link?
I would like to restate that if your going to be using an incubator, you have to make sure that the inside of the jars are not going above 86 F, which requires that the incubator temp never goes above a certain level, whatever that level may be. I also recommend fanning the incubator at least twice daily.
Finnaly, I would like to state that the people on this forum who I believe to be the most knowledgeable and skilled in the field of mushroom cultivation, recommend against the use of incubators and they do not use them themselves. In the above posts, I have made every attempt to simply regurgitate the knowledge that I have gathered from reading theyr posts, (as well as providing a minimum of insights based on my personal experience.) and I apologize for any misinformation that I may have posted.
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jeetered
Stranger



Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: KrissKross]
#7590299 - 11/03/07 06:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think if you know how to incubate, using a TiT is not a problem. Put a towel in the bottom, and on top, to absorb any humidity you may encounter. Set your incubator at 79*F, it will reach about 81*F in the tubs.
Saying an incubator is not necessary, just isn't correct. Some people don't need them. Some do.
This topic has been covered in numerous other threads.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: jeetered]
#7590308 - 11/03/07 07:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Will people stop saying that LC will greatly increase your risk of contams.
LC's are not the cause of contams, its the cultivator. If its done properly then LC's are wonderfull.
And its certainly not putting all your eggs in 1 basket, you only need a small drop of spore solution.
So what about spore prints, are you saying that they are sterile? How sterile do you think that spore print u made urself after taking a mushroom cap from your non sterile fruting chamber in your glove box.
While scraping spores from a print into sterile water works, prints are not sterile.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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mycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias



Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
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The problem with a liquid culture is not that it increases your risk of contaminates, it's simply that you can't *see* the contaminates until they're grown out in a spawn medium.
--------------------
Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude. I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected... - How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates - How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier - How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse ------------------------------------ figgusfiddus said: Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.
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KrissKross
Stranger


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 75
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Saying an incubator is not necessary, just isn't correct. Some people don't need them. Some do.
This topic has been covered in numerous other threads.
As far as I know no one "needs" an incubator unless the temperature where they keep their substrate is too cold. Thats not generally the case because whats too cold for the cubensis myc is generally uncomfortable to humans. I think most people heat their houses to 70 or above. Nevertheless some experts recommend a space heater over incubator for reasons I stated above.
In my opinion: Incubators can possibly increase the chance of contams, cost extra money, a bit of extra effort to maintain, another possible way for beginners to screw up and the benefits are not that impressive epsecially if u dont do it right.
Almost everything in the mush cult has been covered extensivly in numerous threads, by the most competent (and incompetent for that matter) individuals the shroomery has to offer. I am simply trying to offer help to those who have not and will not read those old posts.
Quote:
Will people stop saying that LC will greatly increase your risk of contams.
LC's are not the cause of contams, its the cultivator. If its done properly then LC's are wonderfull.
Well from a statistical point of view I think that LC does increase chances of contams because it adds another vector for contamination, wether you are pro or not. As apro you may screw up only 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 times but u will still screw up.
From a more practical view point I am giving advice to someone who is new and they probly dont have the best cultivation skills.
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And its certainly not putting all your eggs in 1 basket, you only need a small drop of spore solution.
I agree. Before you go knocking up 20 jars with that lc I suggest trying it on just a few first but whatever. If you have the time and resources It cant hurt u.
Quote:
So what about spore prints, are you saying that they are sterile? How sterile do you think that spore print u made urself after taking a mushroom cap from your non sterile fruting chamber in your glove box.
While scraping spores from a print into sterile water works, prints are not sterile.
What a coincidence that I addressed this topic twice recently: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7580806#7580806 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7591293#7591293
Edited by KrissKross (11/03/07 06:29 PM)
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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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Re: What's that smell? [Re: KrissKross]
#7617248 - 11/09/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, thanks for the information! All my jars look great except for one I had to toss because of contams. The other jar that had the smell now has an deep earthy smell but I still have it in its own incubator. No chances! The WBS is looking wonderful, I'd say it's about 5%. Two BRF cakes that are also showing about the same. And another a recipe a fella was telling me about, if it works I will share the recipe, maybe..lol.. It's showing maybe just a bit more..7-10%. But really thanks for all the help. Wish me luck! Happy Shrooming
-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
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