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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix

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Offlineayuds5872
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Brwon Rice Substrate Malfunction
    #7588564 - 11/02/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i have been trying and trying to get my brown rice flour and verm substrate right. It turns out great and i pack it into the jar loosely but after i pressure cook it or boil it, it deflates and becomes a brick of sticky unusable substrate. What could i be doing wrong? And what mixture and sterilization process would help me the most?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Brwon Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7588569 - 11/02/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Standard pf tek. 1 part brown rice flour, one part water, and two parts verm. Never pack it in. Simply spoon it in loosely, cover with verm and sterilize.
RR


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Re: Brwon Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7588578 - 11/02/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Standard pf tek. 1 part brown rice flour, one part water, and two parts verm. Never pack it in. Simply spoon it in loosely, cover with verm and sterilize.
RR




definitely spoon it in loosely, like, TRY to make it airy and loose, never pack it, never scoop heavily, make it light and happy and freeeee.


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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7588585 - 11/02/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I had sorta the same problem but I used Brown Rice Cereal. It was really sticky and clumpy when I was mixing it and made it difficult to load loose into jars. Also was really hard to tell when colonization was nearing completion. But look at it now. Check the link out.
Brown Rice Cereal


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7588710 - 11/02/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting, i might give that stuff a shot since i have got a hang of colinising pf tek jars every time.

You want your substrate mix light, its better to be slightly dry than wet.

When i load my jars i give the bowl of substrate a good mix to loosen the mixture up, also shake the jar after every spoonfull to help stop it clumping together.

You could also try using a little less water next time so its lighter in colour, i beleive that pf tek jars should have a light colour when loaded.


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Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
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Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
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OfflineTomInWonderland
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7588750 - 11/02/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah it was rather dark, tan like color to it. Smelled like, well brown cereal. But I don't know if it would have helped to reduce liquid only because I tried that toward the end and its just as sticky as before. It was just more difficult. I had had no problems in the past with BRF jars. But I just recently made 8 WBS jars and they have colonized almost completely.


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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brwon Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: jeetered]
    #7590405 - 11/03/07 08:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i don't know i definately pack it loose but its almost like the water gets cooked out or it even becomes like an actual cake.


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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: TomInWonderland]
    #7590411 - 11/03/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

alright thanks i'll try it


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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7590422 - 11/03/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I also had a question about why it deflates. I pack the substrate a half inch before the top and top it off with dry verm. After i pressure or boil it the substrate it shrinks and i can see the dry verm has moved down to the threads of the jar and there is a good half inch between that and the top of the jar. it happens when i try sterilizing for an hour or if i do it for an hour and a half.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7590428 - 11/03/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thats odd, sounds like alot of moisture has escaped from your jar.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7590480 - 11/03/07 09:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Is it really brick like? Or is it more like a cupcake? Mine shrink a little when I cook them too but I think that's because moisture from the substrate gets into the dry vermiculite. Also I think the giggling action of the pressure cooker wiggles the jars for an hour and that settles stuff a bit too. Mine generally have the consistency of a sticky cupcake. They are a little spongy and crumble easily. They are not hard bricks. They feel like something you could actually eat. Not something that would chip your tooth. They work great.

Listen to RR you should be fine. Here is the PF portion of his Video. I recommend buying it if you have the money. It's quite well done.






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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: chucklehead]
    #7590487 - 11/03/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Those videos are awesome everytime some mentions them i have to go watch!


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7590552 - 11/03/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

thanks i'll see what happens. and does it matter what kind of verm you use because i have tried two kinds.


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7590667 - 11/03/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have tried different brands. I don't know that it makes a difference really. I think you just want to find the qualities that suit your taste. I like this one because the color is a little lighter than the bulk stuff I bought at the garden center. Also I don't think it's quite as fine as the bulk stuff either. I can buy 4 times as much of the bulk stuff for the same price. That said, once I've used up the bulk stuff I'm switching back.




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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: chucklehead]
    #7593600 - 11/04/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

alright i have tried both kinds also so we will see, i didn't have any luck with the finer darker stuff because it seemed to become more dense, but i will try these techniques.
One last question i had was is that i only use one ventalation/inoculation hole, is that sufficient for ventalation?


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: ayuds5872]
    #7594151 - 11/04/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It'll probably work but I think more is better. My experience has been that if you have more gas exchange mycelium grows faster. I use a total of five holes for cakes.
4 injection holes
1 hole for polyfil
For grain jars I only use two.
1 injection hole
1 polyfil hole
I put a dime on one of the pictures to give you an idea how large the holes should be. Ignore the type of tape I used in the last picture. That type of tape works. It's just a royal pain in the rear. That's an old pic but it shows how I do the polyfil lids and tape over each hole.








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Offlineayuds5872
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: chucklehead]
    #7595701 - 11/04/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

alright thanks guys that looks like it should work.


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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: chucklehead]
    #7596027 - 11/04/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

chucklehead said:
It'll probably work but I think more is better. My experience has been that if you have more gas exchange mycelium grows faster. I use a total of five holes for cakes.
4 injection holes
1 hole for polyfil
For grain jars I only use two.
1 injection hole
1 polyfil hole
I put a dime on one of the pictures to give you an idea how large the holes should be. Ignore the type of tape I used in the last picture. That type of tape works. It's just a royal pain in the rear. That's an old pic but it shows how I do the polyfil lids and tape over each hole.





why do you use holes and polyfill? the gas doesnt choose which hole its going to. right?


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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: Brown Rice Substrate Malfunction [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7599148 - 11/05/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I can't answer your question on gas exchange rates per hole size and covering type.  It's been forever since I took a class involving concentration gradients and dispersion rates etc....  :confused:

My experience has been more holes and bigger holes means faster results.  It usually only takes me 15-17 days to fully colonize a half pint cake with B .  That's using LC and I add a little gypsum to the cake mix.  I've fully colonized in 13 days before.  Speedy colonization is one of my top priorities.  I want my mushies to consolidate their hold on the substrate before any undesirable micro organisms can get to it.  Plus it's really nice not having to wait.  The faster you colonize the sooner you are fruiting.:thumbup:


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