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AnarchoTrip
Young Blood



Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 2,649
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Cigarette Philosophy
#7585815 - 11/01/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm addicted to cigarettes. They're slowly going to kill me. The majority of people that surround me tell me to quit. My university is going to a smoke-free campus next year. My job is already a smoke-free hospital campus. TRUTH is constantly shoving the facts in my face. And yet I still don't want to quit.
I'm struggling with my 'philosophy' of smoking cigarettes, and I'd like to hear some opinions from this community. What's your guys' opinion?
I don't smoke, unless I've been drinking, to get the buzz. I take pretty small drags and I exhale immediately--i don't really care about that part. So it's not just 'fun' or 'a legal high'.
I recognize the fact that I fall for the image it projects (rebel, punk, 60's, whatever).
I truely enjoy smoking, why shouldn't I? It'll kill you! You'll die a horrible death of cancer! You stink like cigarettes! You'll have yellow teeth! Okay. Is DEATH the only reason people don't smoke? Is the fear of DEATH the only motivation?
I'm not sure on my opinion on death, currently. I'm young, I'm stupid, I can't be sure that when I'm fourty and dieing of cancer I won't look back and say "What damn asshole I was." However, here's my general opinion on death.
It's inevitable and it's not a BAD thing. When I think about friends or family dieing... it doesn't bother me as much as I feel it should. I'm agnostic--I don't know about an afterlife. What's the big deal about DYING? My very 'immature' attitude on smoking reflects this: if I'm not afraid of dying, why shouldn't I enjoy smoking cancerous cigarettes?
Well then why don't I just go kill myself now and REALLY experience death? Because I'm enjoying life! because "i'm not ready!", because I've still got a few things to check off the list--right? So what happens when i'm fourty and dieing of cancer and I say, OH SHIT! and repeat the previous list of things-to-do-that-never-got-done-and-now-i-got-cancer. See the hypocracy in my idea--I do, and it scares me.
I have a very "roman" attitude--enjoyment. I'm going to enjoy life, throw morals out the window and push my life as far as it can go... but who's to say I won't want to do that when I'm fourty?! Will there be a point where I say, "OK, I've done enough, I'm ready to die." doubtful.
Okay, I'll stop ranting--this has been really bothering me lately. I can't figure out how I feel about living so dangerously.
What's your opinion? Please give me some feedback,
thanks for listening (sorry for the rant)
-------------------- YIPPIE!
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Mastamike1118



Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7585826 - 11/01/07 10:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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keep it real and do what you feel
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cellardoor
rider on the storm



Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 71
Loc: +44° 58' N, -93° 15' W
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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smoking is a reminder of our mortality. i guess thats my justification for enjoying cancer sticks.
-------------------- "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."~William Blake
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: cellardoor]
#7585883 - 11/01/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have recently started smoking cigars after being off of cigarettes for a few years.
Seriously though, couldnt you get a reminder about your mortality without hastening its demise?
I guess I justify my recent cigar use with "I only smoke it every few days, so thats moderation, and moderation aint bad". That justification is both partly disingenuous and true in some sense.... Cigarettes are hard to enjoy in moderation. They are generally abused heavily. Plus they are so gross when compared to a hand rolled cigar
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7585988 - 11/01/07 10:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I'm not one to preach about choices other people make. Again, you remind me of a lot of my friends. The thing about smoking is that although it has the whole rebel image thing going for it, and yes- I fall for it too(I can't help but think it looks kind of sexy even though I know its disgusting.) The thing with the rebel image is that it's totally contrived, and is one of the most unrebellious things you could possibly be doing - supporting a giant corporation for a habit that'll fuck up your body? But whatever, the point is that you're gonna do what you wanna do and that's just fine. Everyone has thier vices, and if you are happy with yours than you're happy.
Being a debaucherous young rebel is a whole lot of fun. Of course you'd be better off putting your energy into graffiti, vandalism, shoplifting, climbing buildings, hopping trains, playing in a punk band, polyamorous sluttery (with a condom of course ), etc... minus the cigarettes. You gotta make your own choices. You have all the information you need, so at the end of the day you have to decide whether you feel good about doing it or not. If it feels like its a weakness and it makes you feel bad about yourself than remember that you are capable of quitting. If you really enjoy it and it doesn't make you feel bad about yourself than enjoy.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7586082 - 11/01/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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So many people just think of health in terms of longevity. I used to think that way, but then at some point I realized I felt like shit, and for once, I started to actually give a damn about my health. Being healthy isn't all about living to be 100. It's about living a more fulfilling life now.
As far as smoking goes, I used to be a casual smoker, but then I realized there was really no reason for me to keep doing it, especially when I was in danger of becoming an addict. I do enjoy hookahs every now and then, and I've been thinking about going to the tobacco store to get some pipe tobacco for my corn cob pipe(I haven't used it in a long time), but in general I try to take care of myself. I'd like to eat healthier, but I have trouble finding healthy meals I can make quickly.
My drug of choice now is tea. It has the right nutrients to put into just the right head space.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Silversoul]
#7586243 - 11/02/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes! You have a point, being healthy really is more about living a more fulfilling life now than about living a long time. No one knows how long they're gonna last or what's gonna take them out so it really makes sense to enjoy life as much as possible right now. When people get used to feeling bad all the time because of the things they put in thier body (or don't put in them), they think that feeling crappy is normal and that it doesn't really get any better.
My drug of choice these days has also been tea. It used to be coffee, but suddenly one day something in me snapped and I just haven't been able to enjoy it like I once did. It was all rather sudden, and actually a little disappointing. Nothing really hits the spot the way a good americano used to. I love my tea though, especially green tea.
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7586514 - 11/02/07 03:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm addicted to cigarettes.
I don't smoke, unless I've been drinking, to get the buzz. I take pretty small drags and I exhale immediately
That's a pretty minor "addiction". What is addiction anyway? Quite frankly, I don't believe addiction exists, in the sense that addiction is a state in which you are not in control of your behavior. That's the implication of the word, that you are now in this state, addiction, therefore you do not have control over some aspect of your behavior. Bullshit!
Addiction is qualified physiologically by withdrawal. But if physical withdrawal is the only thing that distinguishes "addiction" from simple laziness, or escapism, or routine, why not call it "Impending Withdrawal" instead of "Addiction".
Your smoking "addiction" is something you engage in because you reap enjoyment from it. I quit buying cigarettes a few months back after being caught for about a year in a daily routine of 5-10 cigarettes, either American Spirits or hand-rolled. I was fortunate to have a psychadelic experience that all but nullified my compulsion to purchase and always have tobacco on hand. But never at any point during my consistent smoking routine did I ever cop to the idea that I was "addicted" to nicotine or cigarettes. I smoked because I fucking enjoyed it, or because it became integral to parts of my daily routine. But when I started to feel like my body was constantly deprived of O2 and my chest always felt a bit tight when I went to bed, the enjoyment was outweighed by these effects. Then the fortunate DOB trip disoriented my routine just enough to make the break very easily.
Addiction is a cop out. I know your post isn't just about addiction. As far as the other thing about saying you may die of cancer when you're forty but at least you'll enjoy your life through and through, that's a pretty fucking wasteful attitude if you ask me. No, fear of death isn't the only thing that encourages people not to smoke, much more so it's quality of life. Your minor cigarette routine probably affects your health very little if any so this probably isn't apparent to you right now.
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OMniversal
A Blaze in the Northern Sky


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 218
Loc: The Synaptic Cleft
Last seen: 8 years, 27 days
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Viveka]
#7586567 - 11/02/07 03:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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In a philosophical way, I suppose I 'justify' my smoking by the 'pause' it gives which can give rise to moments of reflection and introspection at any time of the day. This is also often shared with others who choose to smoke the drug. It can be a social ritual as well as one enjoyed alone to 'go inwards'.
Obviously there are probably a ton of other ways to do this, but I guess having a nice cigarette with a nice hot coffee just has a certain romanticism attached to it.
Ironic that something that may increase the chance of dying early sometimes makes one feel most alive. I think that may apply to many other dangerous habits, behaviours and acts as well. Different people take different risks, unless one chooses to lock oneself up in a room due to the risk of getting hit by a car, murdered, etc. if they stepped foot outside.
Yes the risk is real, but many non-smokers forget that that is what it is; a risk. I'm sure many smokers die earlier, but there are still others who live long lives. If you live in a modern industrial society, there are probably 30 other items in your own household that may increase the chance of cancer and disease, not to mention the constant shit in the air caused by heavy traffic in any busy city.
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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AnarchoTrip
Young Blood



Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 2,649
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Viveka]
#7586723 - 11/02/07 07:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Viveka said: That's a pretty minor "addiction". What is addiction anyway? Quite frankly, I don't believe addiction exists, in the sense that addiction is a state in which you are not in control of your behavior. That's the implication of the word, that you are now in this state, addiction, therefore you do not have control over some aspect of your behavior. Bullshit!
Addiction is qualified physiologically by withdrawal. But if physical withdrawal is the only thing that distinguishes "addiction" from simple laziness, or escapism, or routine, why not call it "Impending Withdrawal" instead of "Addiction".
Your smoking "addiction" is something you engage in because you reap enjoyment from it. I quit buying cigarettes a few months back after being caught for about a year in a daily routine of 5-10 cigarettes, either American Spirits or hand-rolled. I was fortunate to have a psychadelic experience that all but nullified my compulsion to purchase and always have tobacco on hand. But never at any point during my consistent smoking routine did I ever cop to the idea that I was "addicted" to nicotine or cigarettes. I smoked because I fucking enjoyed it, or because it became integral to parts of my daily routine. But when I started to feel like my body was constantly deprived of O2 and my chest always felt a bit tight when I went to bed, the enjoyment was outweighed by these effects. Then the fortunate DOB trip disoriented my routine just enough to make the break very easily.
Addiction is a cop out. I know your post isn't just about addiction. As far as the other thing about saying you may die of cancer when you're forty but at least you'll enjoy your life through and through, that's a pretty fucking wasteful attitude if you ask me. No, fear of death isn't the only thing that encourages people not to smoke, much more so it's quality of life. Your minor cigarette routine probably affects your health very little if any so this probably isn't apparent to you right now.
I agree. "Addiction" is a cop-out. I just use the term because that what society has defined it as, "addiction." I'm well aware that physical addiction, if it exists, is monumentuously miniature in comparison to the psychological dependency. I WANT the cigarette, I don't NEED it.
I'm also aware of the hypocracy of boycotting fastfood and wal-mart, preaching punk rock lyrics, and then running outside between sets at a show and smoking a fag. Will it be justified if I started smoking "organic" or "local" (whatever) cigarettes? Will then my smoking of tobacco be morally or 'philosophically' more appropriate? I understand the fact that I could be much more radical and "punkrock" by graffiting, shoplifting, and climbing buildings (all activities I once daily participated in... the good ol' days!). But I believe smoking cigarettes (save from the whole corporate thing) have their respectable place within "punk rock philosophy."
This really wasn't the way I wanted this debate to go. Fine, I'll start smoking more-punk-appropriate cigarettes. I'm more interested in why people keep telling me to quit. And state of health is the only thing I keep seeing (whether it be the idea of living to 100 or whether my chest hurts everyday when I wake up...) If I don't mind the pain, if it's not THAT bad, or if I don't mind the idea of dieing of cancer at 40, then how am I "wrong" in smoking cigarettes? SHOULD I be concerned about these things? People have different values, many people value health... I, not as much--or am I just kidding myself, I don't know.
-------------------- YIPPIE!
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ



Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7586757 - 11/02/07 07:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Both of my parents are smokers and some of my friends smoke. Every now and again I ask them about their habit and how the addiction works. From what I hear from them, the craving for the stick is incessant; always in the back of their minds. They say they really hate how it is there, but the craving for it is too strong.
I smoked a few cigarettes each day for a week to see if any craving developed. Not going to be the same as a 'real' smoker as far as craving goes, I know that, but I found myself actually drawn to the pack of smokes. I was very surprised at this and it taught me to have more sympathy towards smokers and smokers that want to quit because I didn't realize how powerful the pull was (I am assuming that if you have smoked for a long time, the craving is much more intense).
I do believe that calling it an addiction is a little bit of a scapegoat though. Its your body, its your mind, its your choice. When my friends that smoke said that it was always in the back of their minds, I wonder if that 'splinter' goes on to create a domino effect. I find that a lot of smokers I've talked to have thoughts racing through their heads all of the time, mild anxiety it would seem. This is no good for people. People choose to waste a lot of money for a product that its detrimental for health, both physical and apparently mentally, for that feeling of 'ahhh yeah'.. I don't understand people sometimes.
Not to mention how the government obviously wants its people to be on this stuff. Its bad enough they provide the public with an easily accessible and addictive cancer stick (and they know how addictive it is), but they throw on those warning labels and pictures. Not sure how it works in the United States, but in Canada there are pictures of cancerous lungs, rotting teeth, etc. on all/most tobacco products. It seems like a good thing to do, but I think that it makes some smokers feel bad about themselves. "This is what you're doing to your body and you can't stop doing it. Give us your money and keep doing it." My impression is that people will be asking themselves 'How stupid am I?' because they see the effects visually every time they smoke, yet they can't seem to get any control of it. This self-inflicted guilt may possibly add to that mild anxiety I mentioned above.
Maybe quitting could be seen as a protest against the people that want you to smoke.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7586771 - 11/02/07 07:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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We engage in our behavior for our own reasons. If health is not a consideration you have, then I wouldn't be concerned about smoking cigarettes. Most people live unhealthy lifestyles - Americans by choice, 1/3 of the world's population because of poverty.
I'd simply propose that you take a good look at why you choose not to value your health. Analyze the trade-off that exists with this choice. Is it health really not worth more than smoking cigarettes?
Its easy to disregard health and longetivity when you don't have the present experience of physically suffering as a result of the disregard, I'd have to add. I've been with a loved one their last days, dying of cancer, and it doesn't look fun.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7587051 - 11/02/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is nothing wrong about smoking cigarettes, or any other personal health abuse, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences. 
Of course we're all going to die...that is inevitable. But what is NOT inevitable is being sick and tired while you are alive. This, to me, seems the opposite of hedonism, of living life to the fullest. When your health is compromised, your enjoyment of everything else is diminished.
I've watched my mother's health slowly decline over the past 35 years, and it is not pretty. She has been exhausted and sick as long as I've known her, and has had little energy left for enjoying life in between hideous coughing fits. My father died of cancer at age 47. It took 5 years of surgeries and chemo before he died in excruciating pain. He had been "living life to the fullest" by smoking cigarettes since he was a teenager.
Death is not the reason to avoid cigarettes, or any other habit which compromises your health, but rather the prospect of not living while you are still alive.
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fake estate
didgin it out


Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 264
Loc: NC
Last seen: 8 months, 4 days
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Veritas]
#7587233 - 11/02/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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if only pot was legal..
-------------------- eat more algae.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Silversoul]
#7587243 - 11/02/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: So many people just think of health in terms of longevity. I used to think that way, but then at some point I realized I felt like shit, and for once, I started to actually give a damn about my health. Being healthy isn't all about living to be 100. It's about living a more fulfilling life now.
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SheerTerror
ST


Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 2,348
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7587273 - 11/02/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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just gradually quit, cut back every week, and stay on other drugs to help, nicotine is a highly addictive and toxic chemical. so its good for your health to give it up and keep your health. i smoke menthols occasionally, i dont like the high, usually im just like blah, it does suppress your appetite though, thats why i always smoked on breaks when i worked until i walked out a few days ago. but yea just keep quiting cigs on your mind and try to withdraw from smoking however you can. gradually is the best way to go, every day continue make a better step away from the addiction
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AnarchoTrip
Young Blood



Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 2,649
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: Veritas]
#7587312 - 11/02/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Of course we're all going to die...that is inevitable. But what is NOT inevitable is being sick and tired while you are alive. This, to me, seems the opposite of hedonism, of living life to the fullest. When your health is compromised, your enjoyment of everything else is diminished.
Death is not the reason to avoid cigarettes, or any other habit which compromises your health, but rather the prospect of not living while you are still alive.
I understand your point, but I slightly disagree. It is my opinion that not doing something, that I want to do, is not living life to the fullest.
I don't want to go into arguments about ethics or whether I'm just a crazy anarchist. No, you can live your life doing whatever-the-hell-you-feel-like and not rape people, or steal, or murder. It's against my personal code of ethics that I don't rape or murder--it isn't (currently) to smoke. Holding yourself back from doing something that you really want to do is not living life to the fullest. No matter how many years you put into your life, no matter how much shit you get accomplished, if it's full of faux-emotions, fake relationships, and bullshit--you've wasted a life.
So i've got twenty more years to fill my life with things (that are "real" to me) that make up my life. and for people who don't smoke cigarettes, they have 80 more years, I just happen to WANT to smoke cigarettes and they dont. I feel that if I quit smoking, it'd go against my personal morals (that's a weird thought). I'm not trying to say you NEED to smoke cigarettes if you want to live life to the fullest--I'm just saying that for me, I do.
Does this make sense? This has basically been a mini-rant, please excuse. Someone help me out with this idea.
Thanks for the feedback.
-------------------- YIPPIE!
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TrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7587405 - 11/02/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you want to quit, quit.
If you want to smoke, enjoy every cigarette. People who chain smoke without even being present for the experience is my idea of tobacco abuse.
peace
-------------------- Jumped in a river, what did I see? Black eyed angels swimming with me Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see All my lovers were there with me All my past and all my futures We went to heaven in a little rowboat There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7587417 - 11/02/07 11:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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As I said: "There is nothing wrong about smoking cigarettes, or any other personal health abuse, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences."
If the consequences of smoking are less than the perceived benefits, then this is a worthwhile behavior for you. It does not seem like a reasonable trade to me, but this is totally subjective. As long as you are not exposing others to secondhand smoke, all the consequences will be yours.
However, I think you mentioned in your "Am I an Alcholic" thread that you have a daughter? You might consider whether your habit will have consequences for her, too. I grew up without a father because he valued his habits over his health.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Cigarette Philosophy [Re: AnarchoTrip]
#7587426 - 11/02/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah sure we all die. But lung cancer is an unpleasant and often lingering death There's a difference between hedonism and addiction/emotional weakness.
I say up your intake of cigs and really enjoy yourself and then you can find out if I'm full of shit here or not. I also suggest not having insurance so we the public are not affected by your choice. Now get out there and smoke em if ya got em.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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