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InvisibleDiploidM
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Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies
    #7582922 - 11/01/07 03:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A world-famous chimpanzee believed to be the first animal to learn a human language died at Central Washington University in Ellensburg Tuesday night.

Washoe, who was 42 years old, could use about 250 distinctive American Sign Language signs, said Deborah Fouts, director of the university's Chimpanzee and Human Communication Institute, where Washoe lived.

Fouts said Washoe was continuing to communicate on the day of her death.

"She was not feeling well. I came up to her to give her a drink," Fouts said. "She lifted her head and greeted me with a pant-hoot [a soft sound that chimpanzees make]. She's always been a polite, cheerful person."

Washoe was born in 1965 in West Africa, where she was captured by the Air Force and brought to the United States, initially for research use in the space program. In 1966, she left that program and began living in Washoe County, Nev., with two scientists, Allen and Beatrix Gardner. The Gardners led a project at the University of Nevada, Reno to teach Washoe ASL. Previous efforts to teach chimpanzees spoken languages had failed, but the Gardners believed there was a better chance using signs.

Washoe learned ASL starting that year. Her fame quickly spread.

Deborah Fouts and her husband, Roger, became involved in the project in 1967. The Foutses moved Washoe to Oklahoma and added other chimpanzees to their research. In 1980, the Foutses and chimps moved to Ellensburg at CWU's invitation.

"We did it for the chimpanzees, to have the safety of a sanctuary and to get away from everything," Deborah Fouts said.

Washoe was able to teach another chimpanzee, Loulis, sign language without any human intervention, marking the first animal-to-animal transfer of a human language, according to Fouts. She said the chimpanzees have been able to converse among themselves about feeling happy or sad, and can discuss objects that aren't in the room.

"It marked some big scientific steps forward," she said. "It means we have to learn to share the planet."

However, some scientists have cast doubt on the extent to which chimpanzees can communicate.

Columbia University scientist Herbert Terrace conducted his own experiments on a chimpanzee he named Nim Chimpsky, to poke fun at author and animal-research critic Noam Chomsky.

"I was inspired by the Washoe study, but I was skeptical about the data," Terrace said Wednesday.

Nim Chimpsky also learned sign language, but Terrace said he realized over time the chimpanzee could not spontaneously sign. The chimp had rather learned an elaborate way to beg for food or rewards. Terrace said he has not seen evidence of Washoe or other chimpanzees spontaneously signing.

"Language has to involve conversation. It can't be as one-sided as it was with the chimps," he said.

He added that Washoe was an historically important chimp for being the first to learn ASL signs.

Washoe had been living with three other chimps, Tatu, Loulis and Dar, in a sanctuary that includes 5,000 square feet of outdoor space and several smaller indoor areas. Fouts said the facility is one of the best in the country, but even so, she and her husband are not planning to breed any more chimpanzees.

"We are abolitionists," she said. "You can never replace them living with their own families in Africa."

In Ellensburg, leaders have dubbed Washoe, who died of natural causes, a "daughter of the community."

seattletimes.nwsource.com


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: Diploid]
    #7584677 - 11/01/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Now I wanna know whether the chimps that signed to each other were doing it spontaneously or not?


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: Ego Death]
    #7585505 - 11/01/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nah, those chimps knew how to speak. Humans are so arrogant when they think that we have the goddamn monopoly on speech.

Those monkeys weren't throwing out enthralling narratives but they talked about things that weren't in the room, they taught each other signs, and this particular chimp used to love shoes. If one of the people who worked in that facility bought new shoes, she would notice and ask them about it.

That amounts to purposeful communication in my book.


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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Offlineclover606
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7591133 - 11/03/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

agreed, they knew how to talk. maybe not to well, but wouldnt it be cool to go into a wild chimp troupe and teach the younger generations to speak with sign, so you can see if they can use it in the wild and spread it to the population


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grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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Offlineigwna
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: clover606]
    #7605247 - 11/06/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

whoa. that would be awesome. imagine one language EVERY species could speak?


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: igwna]
    #7605704 - 11/07/07 06:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The chimps couldn't really speak though.

Essentially, they learned: "When I make this set of complex gestures with my fingers, I get food". A lot of people think that actual language involves an amount of improvisation. i don't think the chimps ever said anything new, or on their own.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: badchad]
    #7606443 - 11/07/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

While it isn't a certainty, Washoe may well have been speaking in the same way humans do, not just imitating.

Washoe knew the word 'finger' and the word 'bracelet' but not the word 'ring'. When one of her trainers got married and began wearing a wedding ring, Washoe became curious and wanted to ask about it. Having no word for ring, she made up a new word: finger-bracelet. This seems like original speech to me.

Interestingly, Chinese has no word for ring either. In Chinese a ring is called... a finger-bracelet. :whoa:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: Diploid]
    #7606568 - 11/07/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is an interesting subject. I have ordered the original scientific reports.

Still, based on what I've read the chimp could only put together (at maximum) 3 word combinations. Overall, since the Chimp was trained with operant conditioning, I still think it learned an elaborate system, where complex hand gestures were rewarded.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: badchad]
    #7608382 - 11/07/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Still, based on what I've read the chimp could only put together (at maximum) 3 word combinations. Overall, since the Chimp was trained with operant conditioning, I still think it learned an elaborate system, where complex hand gestures were rewarded.




Well, i think the improvisation of the monkey's hand signals kinda show that it was not merely a set memorized hand symbols.

But also you should consider this. Where does an elaborate system of hand gestures become language?

I might think i'm a high and mighty human with knowledge of thousand upon thousands of words and knowledge of complex grammatical structure, but would i do it if i was not rewarded on a daily basis from birth for using this complex system? Probably not.

We use language because its how we navigate our complex society. Those monkeys use their more simplistic language for a more simplistic lifestyle(namely food rewards and conversing with scientists).


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7608439 - 11/07/07 07:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Indeed, it is somewhat of a philosophical issue if what is considered "language".

I agree improvisation is important. I think an important aspect is not only the ability to repeat a word, but to create and understand entirely new thoughts and ideas.

The ability to clearly demostrate something like this is limited when the maximum amount of words the chimp could put together was three.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Chimp Who Learned American Sign Language: Dies [Re: badchad]
    #7609389 - 11/07/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Washoe...

RIP
Mourn Ya Till I Join Ya

:tombstone:  :ripebanana:  :tombstone:


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