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Helixx
Mood:Fragglerocked
Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1,623
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: yageman]
#7582945 - 11/01/07 04:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
yageman said: Nobody should be deprived of the psychedelic experience, especially if they are genetically better than your average joe when it comes to experiencing these drugs.
Quote:
landcrap said: This is not to denigrate the importance of analyzing our (contemporary Western) over-tendency to want to pathologize and categorize 'abnormal' human behavior, because that is a very, very important point.
Everything comes in it's own degrees. Many schizophrenics are functional and contributing members of society. Many people who don't understand schizophrenia think of it as an illness, rather than a different state of mind for those who have it on a smaller scale.
edit: had to edit, post didn't make sense..kinda tired.
Edited by Helixx (11/01/07 04:20 AM)
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opensaysme
Be Here Now
Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1,649
Loc: NJ-NY area
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Helixx]
#7583042 - 11/01/07 06:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea but psychosis is different than schizophrenia.... i have personally witnessed psychosis in two of my friends.
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jeetered
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: opensaysme]
#7583076 - 11/01/07 07:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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=P
schizo ing out is good for everyone!
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blackfir
Seer
Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 88
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: g00ru]
#7583196 - 11/01/07 08:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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It would be one thing if you were feeling emotionally unstable and decided, hey why not? But if you're feeling well and prepared, go for it. I've been fine, that's just me. Anyway have a safe trip.
-------------------- Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer's house is.
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opensaysme
Be Here Now
Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1,649
Loc: NJ-NY area
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: blackfir]
#7583598 - 11/01/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yageman, have you stopped using psychedelics for good?
I read your post, i was just wondering if you feel you'll ever decide to get your feet wet again.
I'm interested in what people who have used a lot of psychedelics over the years have to say about why they decided to stop and what they've gained from it.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Land_Crab]
#7583632 - 11/01/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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psychedelics are enlightening theyll just clear your shit up
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opensaysme
Be Here Now
Registered: 07/15/07
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Loc: NJ-NY area
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Mastamike1118]
#7583658 - 11/01/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think that they're enlightening themselves.
I think they open up a shortcut to temporary enlightenment, which could promote you to work toward true enlightenment in everyday life. A glimpse if you will.
They can be very helpful in my opinion, but used in the wrong way they can also be quite detrimental.
I use them myself for both spiritual and recreational purposes, for me its great although i know some for whom its been bad.
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Crystal G
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: g00ru]
#7583747 - 11/01/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: So...we've all read the above plenty of times. It's a common disclaimer. I just recently found out that my biological grandfather (whom I've never met) was schizophrenic. I've done psychedelics a number of times and have had some pretty powerful trips. I'm 19 years old, have a great life, and am mentally quite healthy.
I'm directing this question at anybody who is knowledgeable with regards to mental illness and psychedelics: If I've already tripped plenty of times and have had no recognizable change in mental health, is there still a chance that future trips could push me over the edge ? (although in my case I'm not even sure there is an edge to be pushed over). Don't take a future increase in trip intensity into account, I'm quite sure many of my trips have been intense enough to theoretically induce a mental illness.
I realize there is a chance of course, and that I should always take extreme caution (set and setting, etc.) but if it hasn't already happened, is there a pretty good chance that it never will?
The onset of schizophrenia generally begins around age 20 and gets progressively worse over time.
If you are predisposed, using stimulants and psychedelics (including dissociatives) may heighten the chances of development.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Crystal G]
#7583909 - 11/01/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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hell yea i agree opensaysme one of my friends gets caught up in repetitive thought patterns its horrible to see him do it to himself when he could just as easily be out of it enjoying himself tripping...
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Visionary Tools
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: g00ru]
#7584088 - 11/01/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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So...we've all read the above plenty of times. It's a common disclaimer. I just recently found out that my biological grandfather (whom I've never met) was schizophrenic.
Ahh, schizophrenia. It sounds so much more professional than "That person is mental and I haven't a clue what's really wrong with them." http://www.manchester.ac.uk/press/title,39950,en.htm
I'm directing this question at anybody who is knowledgeable with regards to mental illness and psychedelics: If I've already tripped plenty of times and have had no recognizable change in mental health, is there still a chance that future trips could push me over the edge?
Set and setting is key. I suffer from depression. One day, I wasn't really listening to my body, experimented with a research chemical, and overdosed. Fever, felt awful, patterns and visuals were happening so fast it was like being on a roller coaster but so fast it was nauseating, but at least it was only closed eye. fucked with my sleeping pattern for days, and I suffered a nervous breakdown when coming down.
You can't say really until you know yourself and your substance. Each new experience can have the risk, disappointments, but also pleasure and insights.
? (although in my case I'm not even sure there is an edge to be pushed over). Don't take a future increase in trip intensity into account, I'm quite sure many of my trips have been intense enough to theoretically induce a mental illness.
There you go. Now you know it's not the drug that pushes one into psychosis, it's stress, be it physical or mental. Or in my case, stupidity, taking unknown RC's, then tripping out in totally the wrong mindset.
I realize there is a chance of course, and that I should always take extreme caution (set and setting, etc.) but if it hasn't already happened, is there a pretty good chance that it never will?
As long as you feel good, feel relaxed, and don't really have any major worries bugging you. And when dosing, be careful.
--------------------
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7584236 - 11/01/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks to the above, that was a very useful post.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Crystal G
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7584402 - 11/01/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said: Ahh, schizophrenia. It sounds so much more professional than "That person is mental and I haven't a clue what's really wrong with them."
LOL, its so true... i swear psychiatrists/psychologists just label anything that they dont understand as "schizophrenic." they do have typical behaviors though that characterize them--disorganized pattern of thought, completely scatterbrained, difficulty in verbal communication with other human beings, things like that.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
Registered: 03/09/07
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Land_Crab]
#7584669 - 11/01/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Personally I believe "schizophrenia" is just a label for any extremely serious mental issue in which psychologists have little understanding of whats actually happening. Realistically the psychologist would have to be "insane" as well in order to understand the individuals perception of reality. Why such a strong correlation between schizophrenia and psychedlics? Schizophrenia in my understanding is the collapse of the self. They have an identity crisis so powerful that they don't know WHAT they are anymore. The voices they hear are actually their own thoughts, they feel so disassociated with their own thoughts that when they hear themselves vocalize in the mind they interpret them as external voices. What is the most powerful aspect of the psychedelic experiance? THE LOSS OF A SELF, EGO LESS, REALIZING YOU DONT EXIST THE WAY YOU ONCE ASSUMED. This being said it is obvious why psychedlics can trigger schizophrenia. Marijuana is also like shrooms but a much much more mild sense of egoloss, you get a more third person perception of yourself. My family has a huge record of schizophrenia and iv done shrooms many times and have evolved spiritually quite drastically. In my opinion schizophrenia is a "disease" only in the mind and IS NOT a result of a malfunctioning brain.
It can be overscome and cured only to produce a more aware person.
An insane person drowns in the smae thing a mystic swims in.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Helixx
Mood:Fragglerocked
Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1,623
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: soldatheero]
#7586280 - 11/02/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Soldatheero, it sounds like you have never met a schizophrenic person, i know schizophrenic people and they have more sense of who they are than the majority of people i have met or know. Schizophrenia is not a disease.
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psychonautix
21st CenturySchizoid Man
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Helixx]
#7586507 - 11/02/07 03:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a small story to contribute.
Last time I dosed shrooms I had overall a pretty good time. It was a mild dose of about 1.8g which is all I really need to get high nowadays.
As I was coming down, my tripping buddy and I smoked a fat J. I had'nt smoked anything for about 4 months so I was blazed off my ass. I started getting crazy paranoia freshmen year of college from smoking weed which ultimately led to my quitting for good. Now everytime I try a little, I get "happy high" for a small while and then I just become paranoid and depressed because I feel guilty for smoking or something...
Anyways, these paranoia are always benign in nature, and usually dont affect anyone outside of my own head too much. I just become withdrawn, as I attempt to straighten my head out, and make some sense of life, despite that I am high as shit.
So this trip was ending and I smoked a J, and soon I was off my rocker. I was seeing shpongle faces in the ocean background of a video game we were playing. These hallucinations were so intense that I had to stop playing cause I was afraid I was truly losing my mind.
Suddenly I remembered that my family has a small circle of mentally unstable folks, and that I have a genetic potential for crazyness. At this point I convince myself that I am truly mad, and become extremely quiet as I try to calm myself and assimilate this new way of life. "Being insane isnt so bad right? I mean, I won't get to do what I want to do, and my family will probably be very sad..." I thought to myself, opening new pathways for self mental torture.
Since I tried LSD I have decided that it is too long of an experience for me to truly enjoy. Shrooms are just right for me. They last long enough to do a few cool things, and they end just when its starting to get old.
In conclusion, I have come to believe that I have the mental capacity to truly lose the plot, and become "insane" and or just dumb. Everytime I come close to either, I realize that I can come back, with a little mental effort. This is comforting to me, and allows me to take mushrooms with a little less concern.
-------------------- Elevate Organically.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: psychonautix]
#7586717 - 11/02/07 06:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that this would exclude everyone (on average)?
There's several sources for this information, but basically, even if your faimly is limited to 2 parents, there is a 75 percent chance you'll have a history. Add to that whether or not YOU have a mental illness, and you'll raise the odds to 88% (presuming even distribution).
So are only 12% of the population able to trip?
This seems like a dumb concept
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Crystal G
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: johnm214]
#7587358 - 11/02/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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^^Are you including all mental disorders, or just schizophrenia? Because I understand many families have SOME sort of disorder, but psychedelics drugs are known to trigger specifically some type of schizophrenia.
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opensaysme
Be Here Now
Registered: 07/15/07
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: Helixx]
#7587376 - 11/02/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Helixx said: Soldatheero, it sounds like you have never met a schizophrenic person, i know schizophrenic people and they have more sense of who they are than the majority of people i have met or know. Schizophrenia is not a disease.
This is a really silly statement.
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Crystal G
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: opensaysme]
#7587588 - 11/02/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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yea, schizophrenics CAN be tamed, but sometimes they have brief episodes... it generally happens when they think the universe is coming out to get them, because all the hidden signs, all the voices, the coincidences that are are so SURREAL it comes together and finally collapses. It is a mark of synchronicity at its finest.
i recall when i was in the psych ward, i tried to help out one REALLY schizophrenic girl who thought that 3 of her friends were out to kill her, and she could hear their voices in her head plotting evil horrible shit to do to her. now ive had this happen to me before so i tried to help her and reason with her.
i asked her how they could read her thoughts and see exactly what she was doing, and she somehow convinced herself that her friends had a magic ball that could see and hear everything that she was doing. LOL no seriously... she actually called the police several times after hearing that the voices were coming over to kill her parents or some shit.
anyways, i asked a few questions about "them," whether they work or were students, and she said they were students. it was on a weekday in the daytime so i said "they should still be in school at this time. how is it possible that theyre hovering over this magical crystal ball stalking you all day?" to which she replied "i dunno... let me ask them." LOL. then she laid on her bed and talked to the voices for a bit.
i tried again. i tried speaking to her voices. i made sure to say quite offensive things to them to provoke a reaction out of "them." but i noticed they did not respond to me, and i asked her if they even made a comment about me, to her, in her brain, and she said no. i said "but if they can see and hear everything that youre doing and whats going on around you, then howcome they couldnt hear me talking shit about them?" to which she was baffled. I could tell it was at that starting point that she began to question whether her delusions were real.
Unfortunately, I departed the day after so I could not work more with her. but I think she worsened over time. Its a pity that none of the psychiatrists at the clinic care enough about the patients to treat them by playing into their games and spotting the fallacies in their logic, and proving it to them. Instead, they just restrain em and sedate em. it solves nothing.
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Konyap
Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: "Those with history of family illness should not do psychedelics" [Re: soldatheero]
#7587730 - 11/02/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: An insane person drowns in the smae thing a mystic swims in.
thumbs up
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