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thoughts
imagining.


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 16,816
Loc: here.
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Fat people.
#7581917 - 10/31/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are there any really fat people here? like super fat, +400lbs?
-------------------- I need Jesus.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7581945 - 10/31/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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what u sayin bout yo mama
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7581957 - 10/31/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am 4'8" 325lbs, want to cyber?
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thoughts
imagining.


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 16,816
Loc: here.
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haha WASSS GOOD MMMNIGGAUH!
there was this funny ass episode of the boondocks on last night.
-------------------- I need Jesus.
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usefulidiot13
Dark Passenger



Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 11,583
Loc: Death From Above
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7581962 - 10/31/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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PM Loki about pics of fat shroomerites.
-------------------- What Would Dexter Do?
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thoughts
imagining.


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 16,816
Loc: here.
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Hahaha
-------------------- I need Jesus.
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HeadTripVertigo
at least I'm housebroken




Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 10,788
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7583889 - 11/01/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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W_S is pushin like 6 bucks, yeah?
-------------------- TACOS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7583901 - 11/01/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Probably not
I like fat people though
Theys coo
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7583908 - 11/01/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im fat 280lbs 6'1"
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Fuck me
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall



Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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I used to be 6'2 and 295 lbs... Now I'm still 6'2 but I'm a much slimmer 225.
That was almost all beer.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Yay!
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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wait ur a chick right.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Without really answering that question, anal is anal
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall



Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Anal is indeed anal, but some guys prefer reaching around a playing with a vagina. Finding a weiner can be a downer to hetero men.
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Sometimes squeezing is better than fingering
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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You lie
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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6 bucks?
I weigh approximately 325lbs, it fluctuates 10 lbs because of fluid retention.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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usefulidiot13
Dark Passenger



Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 11,583
Loc: Death From Above
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Quote:
TurntableJunky said: wait ur a chick right.
lol
looks like panda got himself a bf...
-------------------- What Would Dexter Do?
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Whoo hoo
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Whether you like it or not big boy
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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--------------------
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7584583 - 11/01/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dropped 100lbs in 5 years.
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Fat people. [Re: MOTH]
#7584586 - 11/01/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or something like that.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: MOTH]
#7584906 - 11/01/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, on topic
I guess I'm slightly overweight
5'10 170ish
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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5'10 155lbs but I still have a 33/34 inch waist. Fatties are alright.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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thats not overweight. unless you have absolutely no muscle.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Its mostly in my stomach
My biceps are aight, and my calves are godly
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
robbyberto said: 5'10 155lbs but I still have a 33/34 inch waist. Fatties are alright.
im 5'8 155 30 waist. a little overweight is ok, but obese people make me sick. i just cant fathom how people let themselves go that badly.
i read a disturbing statistic today in the newspaper. 33% of american adults are obese(30lbs or more overweight.)
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
Hyper_Panda_GO said: Its mostly in my stomach
My biceps are aight, and my calves are godly
what do you do for a living that your calves are "godly"?
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
robbyberto said: 5'10 155lbs but I still have a 33/34 inch waist. Fatties are alright.
im 5'8 155 30 waist. a little overweight is ok, but obese people make me sick. i just cant fathom how people let themselves go that badly.
i read a disturbing statistic today in the newspaper. 33% of american adults are obese(30lbs or more overweight.)
I'm probably obese, but I would contend if you saw me you wouldn't think "ZOMG, he's soooooo disgusting."
-------------------- !
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: jewunit]
#7585015 - 11/01/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well jew, my opinion of obese is a little different than the medical community. it all depends on how you carry it. if youre a big fat fatty who doesnt do anything, chances are, youre disgusting. if you are physically active and dont let the weight hold you down, youre alright in my book.
there are two big fat mexicans at my work. one is about 5'10 250, nothing but blubber. the other is 6'0 pushing 430, but ill tell you what, i have some serious respect for the second one because he is strong as an ox and will work all day. hes a tank coated by a sheath of fat.
the obesity that sickens me is:
big fat fatties
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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how big are you jew. ht. wt. wst. etc.?
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
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im 5'10" 200 lbs. i consider myself "husky" hehe. but i lead a very active lifestyle and im healthy (low choelestral, good blood pressure) and i have a smoking hot wife so fuc it.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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I am 6'4'' and a whopping 175 lbs. I am very skinny. I need to start lifting.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
blood4blood said: im 5'10" 200 lbs. i consider myself "husky" hehe. but i lead a very active lifestyle and im healthy (low choelestral, good blood pressure) and i have a smoking hot wife so fuc it.
ahhhhh but they love it so much more when you have rippling muscles
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
Tangerines said: I am 6'4'' and a whopping 175 lbs. I am very skinny. I need to start lifting.
fuck yeah youre skinny! my boss is 6'2 and 175, and hes pretty skinny.
all of my workouts are bodyweight exercises, martial arts training and yoga. the only time i do any weight lifting is at work. picking up 100lb bundles of steel and walking them around the pool. carrying stacks of 2x4's and swinging 20lb sledge hammers.
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
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nah fuc that i do alot of mountain biking so i got stamina. i gave the wife 7 mins of the bloodster last night. i was pretty impressed and even had the niehbors smoking a cig after we were done.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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yea its weird. I almost have like a beer belly being so skinny. Like my stomach sticks out like all the fat gathers there but I know fat spreads evenly. Maybe I just need to work on my abs.
whats up with that?
EDIT: i am 19 btw
Edited by Tangerines (11/01/07 06:28 PM)
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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haha. if ya got the mojo and youre both happy then who cares right?
i guess ive just become obsessed about health in the last few years. i work out every day for about 30-45 mins, plus a 3 mile run. sometimes more. it seems the more definition i get, the more i want. its turning into an addiction for me. at least its a healthy one. i also roller blade roughly 45 miles each weekend.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
Tangerines said: yea its weird. I almost have like a beer belly being so skinny. Like my stomach sticks out like all the fat gathers there but I know fat spreads evenly. Maybe I just need to work on my abs.
whats up with that?
thats funny, my boss has the same exact problem. its like all of the fat on his body gathers there.
there are two things you can go to fix that. do some sort of aerobic activity daily or every other day for 15-30 mins(anything that gets you sweating and elevated circulatory system). also do ab work. leg lifts. crunches, incline sit ups, coffin situps, v-ups, bicycle kicks, mountain climbers and plank holds. dont think that ab work will get rid of that fat though, thats a common misconception. ab work only builds the muscle. aerobic exercise burns fat.
edit: also, lack of pec muscles create the illusion of a fatter stomach.
--------------------
Edited by LeftyBurnz (11/01/07 06:32 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7585281 - 11/01/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is me before I gained weight. I'm a little heavier now:

/me looks for the Cheetoes bag...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7585296 - 11/01/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This thread is retarded, making fun of someone because how much body fat they have..what is this an elementary school message board? Hey I have somewhat of a beer belly, nothing huge but..hey i am in my mid thirties and I like to drink beer in the evenings. Everyone has thier flaws in life..what are we gonna make fun of next, people with anorexia or bulimia. Im gonna get made fun of for my size, i'm 5'5" tall and i am a shorty or a shrimp.
Edited by Skunk420 (11/01/07 07:29 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585306 - 11/01/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chill out man. It's all in fun. Geeze.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7585310 - 11/01/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not cool though, but whatever..
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585406 - 11/01/07 08:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Skunk420 said: This thread is retarded, making fun of someone because how much body fat they have..what is this an elementary school message board? Hey I have somewhat of a beer belly, nothing huge but..hey i am in my mid thirties and I like to drink beer in the evenings. Everyone has thier flaws in life..what are we gonna make fun of next, people with anorexia or bulimia. Im gonna get made fun of for my size, i'm 5'5" tall and i am a shorty or a shrimp.
nothing wrong with being short. or having a little pudge. but there is no excuse for being disgusting.
--------------------
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585417 - 11/01/07 08:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Skunk420 said: Not cool though, but whatever..
lifes not cool sometimes. i lost a testicle to cancer. my grandfather died from a brain tumor. those are things we cannot control. allowing something you CAN control to get out of control, is whats not cool. we werent given these bodies to destroy.
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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I know, I dont get how people even get themselves that fat, even when I have the mad munchies from smoking weed, I still don't even eat half as much as some people do. I gues it is true, some people use food like a drug.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Thats the thing. I'm not overweight at all. My BMI is even a bit below average. I just have a larger waist for my size. Not even a beer gut or anything but I don't know. I usually get no more than 2000 calories and I don't eat that poorly. Its the lack of activity. I have to hit the track and start a full body work out program.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
Edited by robbyberto (11/01/07 08:14 PM)
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585434 - 11/01/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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anything can be an addiction. but i cannot stand the people who claim that they "cant stop". dont fucking tell me you cant stop. plenty of people do it on a daily basis. plenty of people have gone from 300+ lbs to better shape than me. if i can control myself, so can they. weakness is no excuse.
everyone has fat, but not everyone who has fat, is fat. i mean theres still no reason why any of us should have even a beer gut. but i understand many people have pretty busy lifestyles and cannot make the time to do something about it. but many people can. all it takes is 15-30 mins a day. almost everyone can spare that.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
robbyberto said: Thats the thing. I'm not overweight at all. My BMI is even a bit below average. I just have a larger waist for my size. Not even a beer gut or anything but I don't know.
you may just need to tighten up your diaphram and abdominal muscles robby.
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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I have relatives that are obese, I know anything can be an addiction, but some people eat to deal with all kinds of things in thier life, good or bad, I just feel sorry for them anyway, hey I drink beer on a daily basis, I know I can stop, i just like to drink beer and I enjoy the mellow buzz i feel from it.
Edited by Skunk420 (11/01/07 08:19 PM)
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585473 - 11/01/07 08:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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that doesnt have to hold you back skunk. i drink beer just about daily. you just have to exercise to make up for it, thats all.
i dont even know why it bothers me so much. i guess it just irritates me that we only have one life to live, and so many people just dont care. 
i think reading this in the paper today sparked my irritation as well.Cancer linked to Fat.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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I agree with you. Its only going to get worse though. I mean there are going to be extremely advanced new technologies that are going to extend everyones life by decades, fat or not. The incentive to being skinny and healthy is going to disappear. Anyways, we shouldn't judge people on their weight. Weight doesn't make a person good or bad. Its their actions that do that.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Run and walk a whole bunch
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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i mean theres still no reason why any of us should have even a beer gut.
There's some medical evidence (and more is being found all the time) that some people just naturally lean toward being heavy and others lean toward being skinny.
I don't think anyone can be blamed. I'm sure most fat people hate being fat and even after lifelong struggles never get a handle on it no matter how much they want to.
I'm in killer shape now, but when I was a kid, I was chunky, and lemme tell you, it sucked.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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OMFG a pink horse with a rainbow. that is strange, I know your sexuality but has Judas Priest had anything pink or any rainbows in thier concerts, and half the band is bi or gay.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7585634 - 11/01/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The strange thing is if you saw me in person you would NEVER suspect I enjoy taking it up the ass
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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lol
Edited by MOTH (11/01/07 09:11 PM)
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: MOTH]
#7585667 - 11/01/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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NO joke
Whats that in your sig?
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Looks like a person holding a puppet. But it has metaphorical value for me.
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: MOTH]
#7585714 - 11/01/07 09:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, I thought it was a woman in a banana hat holding some anthromorphic flowers
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Maybe. Maybe...
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Skunk420


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Whee yea!
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m.v2
Apple-Core



Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 307
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Skunk420]
#7586242 - 11/02/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm like 175cm and 80kg. I'm too skinny and need to gain muscles, fo shizzle.
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Quote:
leftysurprise said: how big are you jew. ht. wt. wst. etc.?
5'9", 5'10" on a good day, not sure exactly on the weight I haven't been weighed in years, but I'll go around 230, waist is a 36. That's why I say maybe obese, I'm assuming I'm at least 30 pounds overweight, and I'm definitely fat, I won't deny that, but I'm not faaaaaaaaat.
-------------------- !
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Fat people. [Re: m.v2]
#7586371 - 11/02/07 01:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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m.v2 said: I'm like 175cm and 80kg. I'm too skinny and need to gain muscles, fo shizzle.
Metric System....
how i hate thee
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal



Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Quote:
Hyper_Panda_GO said: Oh, on topic
I guess I'm slightly overweight
5'10 170ish
pft... that's not fat. i'm 5'10" and pushing 185, and i don't consider myself fat at all.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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robbyberto said: I agree with you. Its only going to get worse though. I mean there are going to be extremely advanced new technologies that are going to extend everyones life by decades, fat or not. The incentive to being skinny and healthy is going to disappear. Anyways, we shouldn't judge people on their weight. Weight doesn't make a person good or bad. Its their actions that do that.
this may be true, however, i dont care what sort of technology they come out with, none of it will counteract the damage being done to the circulatory system.
weightn doesnt make a person good or bad, however i compare it to their actions. being fat speaks volumes about a persons dedication and willpower, those weaknesses carry over to most areas of their life.
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HuHEN
I am the Owl



Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 2,495
Loc: Highlands
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Basically to keep your weight down you should just play some sports everyday doesn't need to be for that long and it is really fun.(I'm 6'3 200 and I play football)
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7588955 - 11/02/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: i mean theres still no reason why any of us should have even a beer gut.
There's some medical evidence (and more is being found all the time) that some people just naturally lean toward being heavy and others lean toward being skinny.
I don't think anyone can be blamed. I'm sure most fat people hate being fat and even after lifelong struggles never get a handle on it no matter how much they want to.
I'm in killer shape now, but when I was a kid, I was chunky, and lemme tell you, it sucked.
i read a study a while back that gave the statistics on about the amount of people in the world who have a legitimate thyroid/glandular problem affecting their weight, it was a ridiculously small number, a fraction of 1%.
most people's weight is directly correlated to their activity levels, diet and overall lifestyle. if your metabolism is slower than the next person, then you adjust your eating habits and exercise accordingly.
granted. many people cannot be blamed right away for being overweight due to upbringing, but after you get to a certain age, you learn whats normal, whats healthy and whats right and wrong.
being fat is not genetic(in 99.9% of people), it is a result of lifestyle. people need to stop making excuses for fat people. it only enables them. would you tell a crack head that its not his fault hes addicted to crack?
i was a fat kid too. i got rid of it and never looked back.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: jewunit]
#7588992 - 11/02/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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jewunit said:
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leftysurprise said: how big are you jew. ht. wt. wst. etc.?
5'9", 5'10" on a good day, not sure exactly on the weight I haven't been weighed in years, but I'll go around 230, waist is a 36. That's why I say maybe obese, I'm assuming I'm at least 30 pounds overweight, and I'm definitely fat, I won't deny that, but I'm not faaaaaaaaat.
haha. not "biggest loser" fat anyway.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I'm not talking about thyroid problems. I'm talking about natural human physiological tendencies, in particular neurological configurations that up-regulate appetite and muscle efficiency and down-regulate metabolism.
These are genetic predispositions and have nothing to do with will-power. Some may not be severe enough that a little self-discipline can't overcome them, but it's far from clear that all fat people have the ability to lose weight no matter how much they want or try to.
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Researchers at Oregon Health Sciences University (OHSU) may have identified those pesky neurons, involved in appetite and metabolism control, that encourage our bodies back to our original weight no matter how much we diet.
In the latest issue of Neuron, Roger Cone, a senior scientist at the Vollum Institute at OHSU, working in collaboration with William Colmers, University of Alberta, have published their discovery of a mechanism in the brain that memorizes and regulates a person's weight. The mechanism located in the hypothalamus has been named the adipostat due to the fact that it essentially acts as a fat thermostat.
Previous studies have already shown how the brain reacts to a change in diet. "When you lose weight, the body thinks there's something wrong," said Cone. "The body initiates a number of responses to prevent you from losing weight and even to help you put weight back on. These responses include a decrease in the metabolic rate and an increase in muscle efficiency to limit energy loss."
For years, scientists have proposed the existence of an adipostat in the brain. But until now, it's mechanism has remained a mystery. Cone and Colmers, aided by an international team of scientists, have identified individual neurons within the hypothalamus with the precise properties of the long-predicted adipostat.
To find the adipostat, researchers traced the routes of two fibre pathways that appear to play a role in feeding and metabolism. Cone compares the process to tracing electrical wires in your home back to the fuse box.
One of the pathways to the adipostat, called the NPY/AGRP, stimulates feeding. The other pathway, called the MSH, inhibits feeding and is involved in the normal maintenance of metabolic rates. Cone and Colmers used miniature electrodes to identify for the first time neurons that could process information from both pathways.
While there is much more to be learned about the body's metabolism controls, this research could lead to medications that can be used to help regulate a patient's weight. For example, a dieting patient might take a drug that resets the body's adipostat to a lower level, making weight loss easier.
abc.net
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch



Registered: 04/07/07
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Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
Diploid said: i mean theres still no reason why any of us should have even a beer gut.
There's some medical evidence (and more is being found all the time) that some people just naturally lean toward being heavy and others lean toward being skinny.
I don't think anyone can be blamed. I'm sure most fat people hate being fat and even after lifelong struggles never get a handle on it no matter how much they want to.
I'm in killer shape now, but when I was a kid, I was chunky, and lemme tell you, it sucked.
i read a study a while back that gave the statistics on about the amount of people in the world who have a legitimate thyroid/glandular problem affecting their weight, it was a ridiculously small number, a fraction of 1%.
most people's weight is directly correlated to their activity levels, diet and overall lifestyle. if your metabolism is slower than the next person, then you adjust your eating habits and exercise accordingly.
granted. many people cannot be blamed right away for being overweight due to upbringing, but after you get to a certain age, you learn whats normal, whats healthy and whats right and wrong.
being fat is not genetic(in 99.9% of people), it is a result of lifestyle. people need to stop making excuses for fat people. it only enables them. would you tell a crack head that its not his fault hes addicted to crack?
i was a fat kid too. i got rid of it and never looked back.
What you have completely overlooked in your discourse are the psychological factors for both crack and weight. Some people use certain drugs as an escape mechanism and get addicted, some people use food to escape whatever it is they wish to escape from.
There is a saying in the sports trainer world: Once a fatty, always a fatty. Therein lies your future, judge it now as you wish.
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Quote:
hummermania00 said:
Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
Diploid said: i mean theres still no reason why any of us should have even a beer gut.
There's some medical evidence (and more is being found all the time) that some people just naturally lean toward being heavy and others lean toward being skinny.
I don't think anyone can be blamed. I'm sure most fat people hate being fat and even after lifelong struggles never get a handle on it no matter how much they want to.
I'm in killer shape now, but when I was a kid, I was chunky, and lemme tell you, it sucked.
i read a study a while back that gave the statistics on about the amount of people in the world who have a legitimate thyroid/glandular problem affecting their weight, it was a ridiculously small number, a fraction of 1%.
most people's weight is directly correlated to their activity levels, diet and overall lifestyle. if your metabolism is slower than the next person, then you adjust your eating habits and exercise accordingly.
granted. many people cannot be blamed right away for being overweight due to upbringing, but after you get to a certain age, you learn whats normal, whats healthy and whats right and wrong.
being fat is not genetic(in 99.9% of people), it is a result of lifestyle. people need to stop making excuses for fat people. it only enables them. would you tell a crack head that its not his fault hes addicted to crack?
i was a fat kid too. i got rid of it and never looked back.
What you have completely overlooked in your discourse are the psychological factors for both crack and weight. Some people use certain drugs as an escape mechanism and get addicted, some people use food to escape whatever it is they wish to escape from.
There is a saying in the sports trainer world: Once a fatty, always a fatty. Therein lies your future, judge it now as you wish.
you are very wrong there my friend. i WAS a fatty. i know a good handfull of people who WERE fatties and are not anymore, for quite some time now. people can overcome their fears, weaknesses and addictions, they do all the time.
as a matter of fact, some fatties that have turned their lives around become stronger people than those who have maintained a healthy lifestyle from the start. once they see just how good you CAN and SHOULD feel, they never let themselves go back.
and i have not overlooked the psychological factors. drugs, eating, any addiction all boils down to self control, will power and the desire to want something better for yourself. some want it. some have it. some go get it. some never will. the physical aspects of it play a big part, but mentality is everything.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7589671 - 11/02/07 10:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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and i have to disagree with that study Diploid. i agree that your body memorizes certain variables in your body, however they can be reprogrammed. this is why skinny people can stay skinny, and fat people have a harder time losing weight the bigger they get.
noone is born fat. noone is programmed to be fat. if youre fat in the first 10-14 years of your life, its your parents fault. if you are fed a healthy diet and taught to exercise regularly, you will not be fat. plain and simple. end of story.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
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Plenty of people would still be fat in that age range if they ate the same diet as a normal child simply because they have slow metabolism. People ARE predisposed to being overweight.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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that is why there is no generic diet. you need to customize your diet for YOU. my diet wont work for you and vice versa. if your kid is still gaining weight, or is not dropping any excess weight, then his diet needs revamping, portions need slimming.
that is one of americas largest problems. portioning. most people eat on a daily basis, what I would eat for thanksgiving.
and if by predisposed, you mean more prone to it because their family is overweight, so they pick up their habits, then yes. predisposed- yes. genetically predisposed- NO.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: thoughts]
#7589770 - 11/02/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not responding to anyone in particular, but there's no reason to degrade obese people.
I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'm pretty sure your life expectancy is so shortened by obesity that it's coals to newcastle to rag on someone for it.
Quality of life can't be that good either. I can't imagine how much it would suck to carry around that much dead weight.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7589792 - 11/02/07 11:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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thats exactly why you should rag on them. if you shower them with assurances and let them think that its ok, then they wont ever attempt to change themselves for the better. i mean it doesnt affect me one bit that someone else is fat. they are only hurting themselves. financially and healthwise.
its bullshit that people teach their kids that its ok to be fat. i mean we shouldnt berate them to the point that they want to kill themselves, but i dont think we should let them think it is ok.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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and i have to disagree with that study Diploid. i agree that your body memorizes certain variables in your body, however they can be reprogrammed.
Well, forgive me if I take the word of a neurologist over yours when it comes to opinions about neurology.
You can't reprogram things hard wired into your brain by genetics no matter how much you want to any more than a person without an optic nerve can "reprogram" themselves to see.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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StreetFreak
smellin' like a plant


Registered: 02/10/07
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7590022 - 11/03/07 01:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Diploid said: and i have to disagree with that study Diploid. i agree that your body memorizes certain variables in your body, however they can be reprogrammed.
Well, forgive me if I take the word of a neurologist over yours when it comes to opinions about neurology.
You can't reprogram things hard wired into your brain by genetics not matter how much you want to any more than a person without an optic nerve can "reprogram" themselves to see.
"Predisposed" to those tendencies or not, it still remains that if a person runs they WILL lose weight. I don't give a damn what kind of neurons they have, if those mother fuckers run the weight will go DOWN. Thats a truth fo sho fo sho 
6'1 ~160lbs
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StreetFreak
smellin' like a plant


Registered: 02/10/07
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Loc: locked in a place where n...
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And not just run either, but eat properly too.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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You're not getting this.
Neurologists have found structures in the brain of fat people that make their muscles more efficient than normal people. That means that a fat person with these structures has to run five miles to get the same effect a normal person gets running one mile.
These neurological structures also affect how sated a person is. This means that a fat person who eats a proper-sized meal will still be hungry. ALWAYS! After EVERY meal. For their ENTIRE lives. That's a shitty way to live, always hungry. A normal person is sated after a normal sized meal.
You guys think going against hard wired brain structures is a matter of will power. It's not. Fat people with these neural structures are unable to live happy, fulfilling lives if they eat normal-sized meals and they're unable to live happy, fulfilling lives if they're fat. It's a life of never-ending hell. They can no more lose weight than than can stop breathing.
You guys who think otherwise are cruel and insensitive.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7590144 - 11/03/07 03:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: and i have to disagree with that study Diploid. i agree that your body memorizes certain variables in your body, however they can be reprogrammed.
Well, forgive me if I take the word of a neurologist over yours when it comes to opinions about neurology.
You can't reprogram things hard wired into your brain by genetics not matter how much you want to any more than a person without an optic nerve can "reprogram" themselves to see.
forgive me, if i take something i have seen in real life more seriously than what some neurologist theorizes about.
ever hear of muscle memory? the same results are seen with neural pathways. take a martial artist for example. after years of training their muscles to react in a certain way, it strengthens and PROGRAMS the neural pathways to integrate a certain motion into the "circuitry" of the body, making the move almost second nature. after years of training, a martial artist doesnt even have to think about half of the motions he activates.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole



Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7590145 - 11/03/07 03:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: You're not getting this.
Neurologists have found structures in the brain of fat people that make their muscles more efficient than normal people. That means that a fat person with these structures has to run five miles to get the same effect a normal person gets running one mile.
These neurological structures also affect how sated a person is. This means that a fat person who eats a proper-sized meal will still be hungry. ALWAYS! After EVERY meal. For their ENTIRE lives. That's a shitty way to live, always hungry. A normal person is sated after a normal sized meal.
You guys think going against hard wired brain structures is a matter of will power. It's not. Fat people with these neural structures are unable to live happy, fulfilling lives if they eat normal-sized meals and they're unable to live happy, fulfilling lives if they're fat. It's a life of never-ending hell. They can no more lose weight than than can stop breathing.
You guys who think otherwise are cruel and insensitive.
which goes back to my original statements. you can achieve the results you want, you just have to customize your diet and exercise to your own body type.
the fact is. there is no excuse.
its will power. no matter how much you disagree. do you know how often i get hunger pains? i use WILL POWER and drinking water to curb them. if you want results you will get them.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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you can achieve the results you want, you just have to customize your diet and exercise to your own body type.
And be forever miserably hungry...
the fact is. there is no excuse.
Not according to the available research. This is like saying that there is no excuse for someone who needs to sleep. Neurology dictates that we have to sleep. Will-power has nothing to do with it.
Neurology also dictates body weight for some people.
its will power. no matter how much you disagree
I'm not disagreeing. It's reality as evidenced by the research that's disagreeing with you.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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forgive me, if i take something i have seen in real life more seriously than what some neurologist theorizes about.
It's not theory. Haven't you read the article I posted? These neurons are not theoretical. They've been seen and measured and traced. They're real things, not theories.
They evolved in humans to give us a survival edge by giving us increased appetite and allowing us to efficiently store fat for when famines occur.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
i WAS a fatty. (..) but there is no excuse for being disgusting.
Ah and willpower has turned you into an extremist? You're like an ex-smoker about smokers or a religious convert about atheists. People have every right to be unappealing to you. Willpower made you a hater. Thats how you got the pounds off.
Quote:
thats exactly why you should rag on them. if you shower them with assurances and let them think that its ok, then they wont ever attempt to change themselves for the better.
How about you staying the fuck out of other peoples business, instead of ragging on them, belittling them and blaming the victim?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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pong
kretan




Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 4,311
Loc: west coast
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7590300 - 11/03/07 07:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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making fun of fat people does not help at all.
i agree here with wiccan seeker.
i found that encouragement and support helped cousin of mine lose all of his fattyness. all he has to work on now is the looseness of his gut.(losing weight gives you a shit ton of extra skin)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7590313 - 11/03/07 07:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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These guys remind me of the knuckleheads who insist that being gay is a choice. As if someone can consciously decide which sex makes them horny and which one doesn't, then the next day use will-power to change their mind and prefer the other sex.
Genetically hard-wired neurology is not susceptible to will-power.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7590349 - 11/03/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: How about you staying the fuck out of other peoples business, instead of ragging on them, belittling them and blaming the victim?
I agree it isn't helpful to belittle other people... but fat people aren't really victims in my eyes.
Sure their condition may be the result of certain biological states, but just what makes them a victim to this more so than anyone else who doesn't have a perfect body?
Fact: you expend more energy than you take in, you lose weight (possibly unless you have some of the extremely rare and usually fatal glycogen storage diseases)
While fat people shouldn't (edit, should) be free to live their lives, that doesn't mean they get to extract sympathy from others. Most people's conditions are a result of concious choices, though these may be harder behaviors to adjust than in other people.
People should be free to live there lives as they see fit, and in turn, others can think what they want of them.
Edited by johnm214 (11/03/07 01:55 PM)
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591182 - 11/03/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
i WAS a fatty. (..) but there is no excuse for being disgusting.
Ah and willpower has turned you into an extremist? You're like an ex-smoker about smokers or a religious convert about atheists. People have every right to be unappealing to you. Willpower made you a hater. Thats how you got the pounds off.
Quote:
thats exactly why you should rag on them. if you shower them with assurances and let them think that its ok, then they wont ever attempt to change themselves for the better.
How about you staying the fuck out of other peoples business, instead of ragging on them, belittling them and blaming the victim?
Fat people are the "victim" of poor diet and lifestyle choices.
The biological explanation doesn't wash with me. Why are human beings the only species on earth dying of obesity? Evolution has pretty much ceased to affect us (everyone breeds, regardless), so it has to be behavioral.
And ragging on someone isn't going to make anything change.
Support the obese, help them get out of the house. Making fun of someone is going to make them depressed, and even less likely to seek social contact and other activities, and make them eat more.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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blkjkrabbit

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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America is the fattest fucking country on earth, and it's not because we're some highly evolved species of big eaters - we're just a bunch of spoiled fat fucks who don't know how to moderate shit. It's pretty fucking simple
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591229 - 11/03/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Evolution has pretty much ceased to affect us
This isn't true. Stoopid people still die faster than smart people. And weak people die of diseases more easily than strong people. And in developing parts of the world, hunger still kills people, so these neurons are beneficial in those places and reinforced by evolution.
Be that as it may, even IF we agree for argument's sake that evolution no longer affected us, we're still an end-product of evolution that took place when food was scarce. It's only recently that food became abundant in the developed world.
The biological explanation doesn't wash with me. Why are human beings the only species on earth dying of obesity?
Because in nature, there is not usually an overabundance of food. It's for exactly this reason that these neurons evolved, in humans and lower animals too.
Give a lower animal unlimited food and these hard-wired PHYSIOLOGICAL factors kick in. Have you never seen a fat cat?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7591238 - 11/03/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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why is there even an argument? fat people are fat. skinny people are skinny. who cares it is the way shit is.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7591284 - 11/03/07 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Evolution has pretty much ceased to affect us
This isn't true. Stoopid people still die faster than smart people.
Evolutionarily, the critical factor isn't whether or not you die, but how many offspring you produce. If anything, stupid people have more babies.
Quote:
Diploid said: Because in nature, there is not usually an overabundance of food. It's for exactly this reason that these neurons evolved, in humans and lower animals too.
Give a lower animal unlimited food and these hard-wired PHYSIOLOGICAL factors kick in. Have you never seen a fat cat? Duh.
I've seen some seriously obese cats, whose owners just fed them all the time. The physiological process is a "how" and not a "why" Cats, true, evolved the same as us. Unlike cats, however, we have the ability to think ahead. We create the food surplus, and we have the ability to exist without being destroyed by it.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Quote:
Tangerines said: why is there even an argument? fat people are fat. skinny people are skinny. who cares it is the way shit is.
Because it's killing people and ruining their quality of life, and it doesn't have to.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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pong
kretan




Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 4,311
Loc: west coast
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591318 - 11/03/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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how i look at it is people are killing themselves, as with smoking, and other hazardous activities such as shooting heroin or drinking 21 shots on your 21st even though you weigh 130 pounds

IT, whatever IT is, isnt killing anybody.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591322 - 11/03/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
it's killing people and ruining their quality of life, and it doesn't have to.
You're assuming it can be changed. That might be wrong. Over 95% of all people who lose a lot of weight, gain that weight and often more back on in 3-5 years. That's not people being silly. That's nature telling you something.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591336 - 11/03/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
it's killing people and ruining their quality of life, and it doesn't have to.
You're assuming it can be changed. That might be wrong. Over 95% of all people who lose a lot of weight, gain that weight and often more back on in 3-5 years. That's not people being silly. That's nature telling you something.
My guess is that it's difficult to entirely change one's lifestyle.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591342 - 11/03/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If only 5% succeeds longterm, that means you have to be abnormal to succeed longterm.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591361 - 11/03/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you're referring to some physiological difference, it doesn't follow that a low rate of success implies one.
Perhaps that 5% are more motivated, or have made some kind of critical change.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591371 - 11/03/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
Tangerines said: why is there even an argument? fat people are fat. skinny people are skinny. who cares it is the way shit is.
Because it's killing people and ruining their quality of life, and it doesn't have to.
oh ok so your whining about your dislike about fat people is going to change that? no. You going out IRL and trying to raise awareness about fat people? no
yes it is unhealthy but it is a personal decision. you think fat people actually LIKE to be fat? or that they think it is actually beneficial to them? no, they know it is bad for you but they DONT CARE. and neither should you.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591377 - 11/03/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unlike cats, however, we have the ability to think ahead.
Yeah man, that's why we can consciously diet, but people who have the fat neurons would have to ALWAYS diet, ALWAYS being hungry and miserable for their entire lives to stay at a healthy weight. This is because their brains up-regulate appetite and muscle efficiency. This means that I may burn 50 calories an hour reading online and a fat guy only burns 10.
So yes, it's possible for fat people to lose weight, but that comes at the cost of being miserably hungry all the time. It's got to be hell to have only two choices:
1. Hate yourself for being fat 2. Hate your life because you're always hungry
Let's have some compassion and stop blaming people for something that, from the available evidence, isn't as simple as just using will-power.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
oh ok so your whining about your dislike about fat people is going to change that? no. You going out IRL and trying to raise awareness about fat people? no
yes it is unhealthy but it is a personal decision. you think fat people actually LIKE to be fat? or that they think it is actually beneficial to them? no, they know it is bad for you but they DONT CARE. and neither should you. 
Show me where I said that I dislike fat people, show me where I said that I thought that fat people liked to be fat, show me where I said that it was anything but the consequence of lifestyle and diet choices.
As a matter of fact, if you had read the posts I've made in this thread, you'd know I have been arguing the exact opposite, without a shred of self-contradiction.
I care about the obese people I know, I care because I don't want my buddies to die.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (11/03/07 02:51 PM)
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7591397 - 11/03/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Unlike cats, however, we have the ability to think ahead.
Yeah man, that's why we can consciously diet, but people who have the fat neurons would have to ALWAYS diet, ALWAYS being hungry and miserable for their entire lives to stay at a healthy weight. This is because their brains up-regulate appetite and muscle efficiency. This means that I may burn 50 calories an hour reading online and a fat guy only burns 10.
So yes, it's possible for fat people to lose weight, but that comes at the cost of being miserably hungry all the time. It's got to be hell to have only two choices:
1. Hate yourself for being fat 2. Hate your life because you're always hungry
Let's have some compassion and stop blaming people for something that, from the available evidence, isn't as simple as just using will-power.
Touche, diploid.
I concede to you and Wiccan that willpower may not be enough.
I would like to note, however, that option one also entails a much shorter life, as well as other declines in life quality. You're way better off just suffering from hunger.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7591409 - 11/03/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's got to be hell to have only two choices:
1. Hate yourself for being fat 2. Hate your life because you're always hungry
Or, you can try what you can to lose weight and keep it off, accept that you won't succeed and probably will die young, and love yourself every step of the way
Theres no reason to hate yourself for being fat, like you say it's a chronic disease. Should you hate yourself for leprosy?
I diet, I work out, I'll stay obese for the rest of my life just like half my family that I can trace back to my great-grandparents.
It's important that you live a life worth living. That can be had without eyesight, hearing, functional limbs or when you're 100+lbs overweight like me. It's your job to make your life worth living with what you have, reincarnation will take care of the rest
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Diploid]
#7591412 - 11/03/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Unlike cats, however, we have the ability to think ahead.
Yeah man, that's why we can consciously diet, but people who have the fat neurons would have to ALWAYS diet, ALWAYS being hungry and miserable for their entire lives to stay at a healthy weight. This is because their brains up-regulate appetite and muscle efficiency. This means that I may burn 50 calories an hour reading online and a fat guy only burns 10.
So yes, it's possible for fat people to lose weight, but that comes at the cost of being miserably hungry all the time. It's got to be hell to have only two choices:
1. Hate yourself for being fat 2. Hate your life because you're always hungry
Let's have some compassion and stop blaming people for something that, from the available evidence, isn't as simple as just using will-power.
You're a scientist, Diploid, you should know better.
There is no magical "Fat Person Physics" at work here.
If a fat person, or any person, burns through exercise more calories than they put into their gaping maw, they will become thinner. This is not rocket science. Its simple fact.
Anyone who is obese, if they would eat right, and exercise would become thin.
The problem is, this is not easy. It is hard to exercise. Except for a few abnormal folks, people do not ENJOY doing it. Running 2K will never be as fun as eating a dozen ho-hos to most people. Exercise involves physical motion and sweat and effort. Eating does not.
But fat people are not breaking the laws of physics. There is not some marvelous source of zero-point energy built into their digestive systems. If they continue to gain weight, or even stay mass-neutral, then they are consuming AT LEAST as many calories as they are burning, and quite likely more.
Reverse this, and you will lose weight.
This is undeniable.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Hyper_Panda_GO
Team Action!


Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 9,720
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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What about Samoa?
I wonder what their penises are like
-------------------- There is no valid reason you should be reading this
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591427 - 11/03/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I would like to note, however, that option one also entails a much shorter life, as well as other declines in life quality. You're way better off just suffering from hunger.
No 
You're by and by better off living a reasonably comfortable life and keel over at age 35 from massive stroke than to live 50 years on eating just 800 kcal a day.
Because that happens with a lifetime of dieting. You end up eating 800 kcal instead of 2.500, and then the 800 kcal will become fattening, and you can't take any less because that doesn't sustain life.
If you're obese, truly obese, dieting cannot save you. The more you diet, the more your body breaks.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591438 - 11/03/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Because that happens with a lifetime of dieting. You end up eating 800 kcal instead of 2.500, and then the 800 kcal will become fattening, and you can't take any less because that doesn't sustain life.
Again, this is just plain wrong. If you eat 800,000 calories, and you burn 850,000 calories, I guarantee you will not gain weight, except water weight.
It is impossible!
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Madtowntripper, you misunderstand the issue because you are ignorant of the facts.
Quote:
f a fat person, or any person, burns through exercise more calories than they put into their gaping maw, they will become thinner.
But when a fat person who needs 2500 kcal eats only 2000.. guess what happens.. his metabolism economizes so that he only needs 1900 kcal.
So the guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 2.000 kcal and after a long stall... he is gaining weight on 2.000 kcal, NO CHEATING INVOLVED.
So the diet goes down. The guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 1.500 kcal and loses some weight.. but then starts gaining on 1.500.
So the diet goes down again. The guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 1.000 kcal and loses some weight.. but then starts gaining on 1.000. What now? Umm by your logic..
The diet goes down again. The guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 800 kcal, the metabolic minimum, and loses some weight.. but then starts gaining on 800.
END OF THE LINE, and this WITHIN TWO YEARS OF DIETING.
The guy gives in to his urges!! He starts eating 3.000 kcal again, which as you know for him feels right. Starved and nutrient-deprived he sometimes eats more. But because he now doesnt need 2.500 kcal but only 800 kcal, HE GAINS WEIGHT THREE TIMES AS FAST AS HE DID BACK WHEN HE DIDN'T DIET. Net result: after two years of dieting and one year of not dieting, he gained as much weight as he wouldf have in four years of not dieting.
THAT madtowntripper is fat man's physics. Can you do the math?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591473 - 11/03/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's your job to make your life worth living with what you have, reincarnation will take care of the rest
I don't buy that reincarnation thing, but if you're happy, I'm happy for you.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Running 2K will never be as fun as eating a dozen ho-hos to most people.
LOL
Ho-hos?? WTF is a ho-ho? A pair of prostitutes?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591493 - 11/03/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't get defensive, please? This is why I dont like discussing anything with you.
The fact is, your above scenarios are all impossible if exercise is being taken into account.
Quote:
So the guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 2.000 kcal and after a long stall... he is gaining weight on 2.000 kcal, NO CHEATING INVOLVED.
If you are telling me that he is eating 2000 calories, and burning more than that, and he is gaining weight, you are a liar. It is impossible.
Quote:
So the diet goes down. The guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 1.500 kcal and loses some weight.. but then starts gaining on 1.500.
Again, obviously less than 1500 calorie are being burned through exercise, and there is more energy entering the system than exiting it.
Quote:
So the diet goes down again. The guy who needs 3.000 kcal to feel right now eats 1.000 kcal and loses some weight.. but then starts gaining on 1.000. What now? Umm by your logic..
Again, a logical fallacy. If 1000 calories are being consumed, and more than 1000 are being burned, there is no possible way to gain weight.
Tell me, in the hypothetical world that you have narrated for us, where is this magical weight coming from? If a person is burning 1500 calories, but consuming 1000, and they gain weight, how does this happen?
Is it magical mystery fat? Is it being obtained from the atmosphere through respiration?
What?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591494 - 11/03/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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What about exercise, W_S?
My buddy weighs about three and a half bills, 30 minutes on the treadmill is about 600 calories for him. Takes me twice as long to burn that much.
EDIT: Lets not let tempers get in the way of a good argument, gentlemen.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (11/03/07 03:30 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#7591538 - 11/03/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah everyone... chill... we're all friends here, right?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
Again, obviously less than 1500 calorie are being burned through exercise, and there is more energy entering the system than exiting it.
You can't exercise all your calories, your body needs a lot of calories for its functioning.
If you need 2.500 kcal and you do another 500 kcal worth of exercise, then the situation has changed and you need 3.000 kcal, because you have spent 500 extra calories on exercise.
Exercise enhances your quality of life and allows you to gain weight slower. Like dieting, in itself it is NO solution, it's just a clumsy patch for a problem thats hardwired into a person.
If an obese person burns more calories than he consumes, he's dead in a few years. Burning more calories than you consume is NOT a lifetime solution, it is only a way to shorten that lifetime.
If you burn more than you consume, your basic energy needs will go from 2.500 kcal to 800 kcal. If you exercise 1.000 kcal with that your needs will go from 3.500 kcal to 1.800 kcal. That extra doesn't make it more than the metabolic minimum though.
Burning more than you consume, or eating less than you burn, neither provides any solution whatsoever. Diet and exercise are no cures, they are crutches at best.
Burning more than you consume only works in the third world and in concentration camps where people have no choice. When they have a choice survival instinct will override any motivation they might have and they'll start eating more.
Quote:
Again, a logical fallacy. If 1000 calories are being consumed, and more than 1000 are being burned, there is no possible way to gain weight.
Fuel efficiency. You start needing less to do the same amount of work. In time that will slip under the amount you burn and you will gain weight.
Why will it do that? Because the nature of obese people is to gain weight, and their bodies will do everything to make that happen. Why? Because it's a disease. Homeostasis is broken, diet exercise or not, and it will stay broken. To date there is no cure for obesity.
People have been saying "diet and exercise" over and over since the 1950s, and look how well it worked. Look at the results of all the diet doctors and nutritionalists and fitness trainers and what have you not: 95% of fat people who opt to lose weight, gain it back on or worse within 3-5 years.
If it doesn't heal 95% of your patients, you're selling snake oil. "Diet & Exercise" is snake oil.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591668 - 11/03/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I disagree with almost everything you said.
It must be terrible to be stuck in the kind of mental rut that you are in. You are 100% sure that nothing will work for you, and so have just given up completely?
I dont see how people can claim that over-eating is not the main cause of weight loss. I dont think that its a coincidence that gastic bypass surgery gives LASTING results for the majority of people who have it.
You dont see 95% of the people who have gastric bypass back up to 500 lbs in a few years. Why? Because it is physically impossible for them to put as much food into themselves as they did before.
There has to be a correlation there...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
I disagree with almost everything you said.
That's because you misunderstand the issue. Something sensible looks like complete nonsense if you don't have the facts.
Quote:
I dont see how people can claim that over-eating is not the main cause of weight loss.
What causes this overeating? And what are the results of having been obese?
Quote:
You dont see 95% of the people who have gastric bypass back up to 500 lbs in a few years. Why? Because it is physically impossible for them to put as much food into themselves as they did before.
There has to be a correlation there...
The correlation is that they are being put in a position where there is no choice, like in the third world or a concentration camp, and this for the rest of their lives.
They can never eat a normal meal again. Thay cannot eat their pound of vegetables or an apple. They need nutritional supplements because if they ate the best food money can buy, they still could eat so little of it that they end up with multiple nutrient deficiencies.
Being obese by no means is as bad as a life lived with your stomach cut off and sewn shut. You will still crave those 3.000 calories.. and you will crave vegetables and fruits and normal sized meals and food that isn't dense in calories like lettuce and watermelon.
A gastric bypass should come with a magnum revolver to blow your brains out a couple months later when it dawns on you what you have done to yourself. For the rest of your life you now are forced by mutilation to adhere to a diet you COULDN'T POSSIBLY adhere to if you had a choice.
I'd rather die next year than have a gastric bypass and die in ten years thank you very much.
You're saying that the simplest of logics is right and that millions upon millions of people across five decades have all sucked at life because they all failed to understand it. It is the simplest thing you can think of and yet all those darn fatties all don't get it somehow. Might it be that your logic is incorrect?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591743 - 11/03/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The correlation is that they are being put in a position where there is no choice, like in the third world or a concentration camp, and this for the rest of their lives.
So you admit that outside of all of the metabolism and energy needs and exercise and everything else that you've stated, its simply a matter of willpower?
Which is pretty much what I've said all along.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
So you admit that outside of all of the metabolism and energy needs and exercise and everything else that you've stated, its simply a matter of willpower?
Which is pretty much what I've said all along.
No, it's a matter of unreasonable demands. Willpower cannot do it, as evidenced by the statistic that 95% of obese people who lose weight gain it back on in 3-5 years. As evidenced by the fact that you can only come up with drastic bariatric surgery as a means to keep the weight off more often than not.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591773 - 11/03/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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But if surgery which prevents people from eating too much, causes weight loss, doesn't that mean that the cause of weight gain is eating too much? It seems that regardless if you want to call it "drastic" or "inhumane", or whatever, the only thing it does is stops people from eating too much. It doesn't change your genes, or your mind, or anything.
I mean, I realize nobody wants to hear that they are at fault for anything. But if the shoe fits....
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
But if surgery which prevents people from eating too much, causes weight loss, doesn't that mean that the cause of weight gain is eating too much?
The number of calories you take in has an effect on your weight, yes.
But, I ask you again, what makes people eat too much? What makes people eat too much that is so persistent that people walk around hundreds of pounds overweight all their lives, that makes 95% of all diet/exercise plans fail and which only gives your bariatric surgery a 70% success rate? One out of three gets fatter and fatter still even with his stomach cut out. And those two out of three who lose weight.. are still overweight:
Quote:
Weight loss of 65 to 80% of excess body weight (the amount by which actual body weight exceeds actuarial ideal body weight) is typical of most large series of Gastric Bypass operations reported
That is not a matter of *willpower* it's a matter of *disease* just like what Diploid has been so very clear about.
"diet and exercise" only works for 1 in 20 people "gastric bypass surgery" only works for 2 in 3 people, who lose part of but not all their overweight fat tissue.
It's not a matter of willpower. It's a matter of being tortured to death by your own body, just like other chronic diseases are.
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Dreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster


Registered: 04/15/03
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Re: Fat people. [Re: Asante]
#7591878 - 11/03/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hate to hurt anybodys feelings, but for a smart guy you are in SERIOUS denial about your weight problem. This isn't the first time you'v tried to argue that it is impossible for you to lose weight through some crazy science.
If try hard enough to lose weight, you will. Eat less bad foods, and take a walk every day. I'v suffered from obesity in the past, and you know how i fixed it? I started walking to school instead of riding the bus, i ordered a single cheeseburger instead of a double, and while the results weren't imediate, or staggering, i did go from being a lard ass, to being able to take my shirt off in public without repulsing women. I don't think this puts me in some magicly lucky 5%.
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StreetFreak
smellin' like a plant


Registered: 02/10/07
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Quote:
Dreamer987 said: I don't think this puts me in some magicly lucky 5%.
Lol me either!
If you want to play on the genetic aspect, saying that genes keep people at a certain weight because they just have to eat that much. Then why is it when anorexics start off at a normal weight, and start eating much less and exercise more they lose so much weight? After a while they don't even have the same hunger patterns as they did before because their body and mind adapts. Sure they might be starving themselves to death, but if an anorexic can starve themselves to death I'm pretty sure an obese person can go just a weee bit hungry to shed a few pounds. Shouldn't that gene be keeping them from being able to stop eating or losing weight? Even if that weight is normal that gene should not allow them to eat less right? I've yet to see an overweight person seriously start making smart changes in their diet and seriously exercising not lose weight. Anytime I see an overweight person saying that they just can't lose the weight they seem to have gave up a diet/exercise routine long ago (what a coincidence?) It may not be immediate, but it does work.
Hell I'm 6'1 and ~160 lbs. I've been around 180 lbs before and have noticed how my diet affects my weight, and even though I wasn't seriously overweight I did make changes in my diet and start eating a little less. After a short period of time I wasn't accustomed to eating so much and I didn't even think twice about it. I changed my food intake and my body adapted. I didn't have some crazy hunger pains that never went away because I started eating less. Sure maybe a few small ones right when I did because it was what I was used to, but they went away fast.
Also that adipose gene exists to keep animals lean in times of plenty. I seriously doubt that humans are going to have a gene that makes them a ridiculously unhealthy weight, without their eating and exercise patterns playing the biggest part of it.
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey




Registered: 10/31/01
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Wiccans argument is crazy, that would be like saying many people are genetically predisposed to abuse and become addicted to drugs and that a very high percentage of those who try recovery/abstinance relapse that you really shouldn't try to get clean.
-------------------- -QuantumMeltdown Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself. -Mark Twain "The time has come the walrus said, little oysters hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome Be lonesome and you will be free Live a lie and you will live to regret it That's what livin' is to me That's what livin' is to me" Jimmy Buffett
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