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Offlinebbaeker
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teachings of don juan
    #7578768 - 10/30/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

has anybody read this book? does anyone have any soeculations on what could be the ingredients of don juans "little smoke". do you think this mixture even exists? i doubt the activity of smoked mushrooms, so could this possibly be the active principle? what do you think.


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: bbaeker]
    #7578784 - 10/30/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Amanita muscaria can be smoked. But the primary alkaloid in that is muscimol, there is no psilocyben (which is broken down by heat) in them.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Offlinebbaeker
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7578812 - 10/30/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hm interesting, i didnt know amanita could be smoked. i know that it isnt psilocybin though. however, amanitas were not the mushrroms included in the little smoke, but thanks


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OfflineWandering_Yogi
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: bbaeker]
    #7579106 - 10/31/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I read the book. The visions the author describes could have been drug induced, at least partially. The contents of the smoke was various local flora, correct? You could research psychoactive plants from that area.


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OfflineSiekoaktiv
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: Wandering_Yogi]
    #7579715 - 10/31/07 08:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've always wondered this myself... there are so many psychoactive plants we don't know about, it sure seems possible that it could have been some undiscovered psychedelic...


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I'm in need of a sterile sporeprint, if anyone wants to do a trade for some seeds or something, or maybe just for free if you have a lot of them............. i'd really appreciate it :mushroom2:

NuggetPorch said - "YES! YES!!!! Coaster its Faint, but its fucking there YOU see it!!! Perhaps we are both on some sort of unusual wave length associated with unusual neuro-transmitters, mind expansion white light, or something we can not even begin to understand or fathom to conceive because it is a gift of insight or a curse given to us by powers beyond our control, something we are not meant to know."


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: bbaeker]
    #7579928 - 10/31/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Toad venom?


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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Offlinechubbycharley
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: bbaeker]
    #7580166 - 10/31/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

great books :thumbup:

effects ARE possible from smoked mushrooms but, the little smoke was, as far as i can reason, salvia and mushrooms, perhaps a little deadly nightshade of some sort.

but don't get caught up on the little smoke, the whole idea behind it was to give Carlos a push, a boost of power. the goal is to use meditation, or dreaming, to create these effects (turning into a crow, in this case) in yourself.

don't get sucked into the recipe for this blend as it would be missing the point of the whole book. like how Carlos only wanted to study peyote and other plants the sorcerers of mexico used but found don Juan instead. he found something much more vast than psychoactive plants.


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Offline2end4
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: chubbycharley]
    #7580177 - 10/31/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Chubby, I think you hit it right on the friggin DOT!


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Praise Bob!


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OfflineNEPHROSIS
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: chubbycharley]
    #7580186 - 10/31/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ya I think Juan actually made Carlos think that the prepration of the little smoke was extremely difficult and so sacred (hence all the precautions with pipe, time the foilage should be stored for and how, etc)yet in reality it's just acting like a placebo for Carlos to be able to create effects on his own.

I haven't read it in awhile but that yellow shrubby plant they talk about, isn't that sinicuichi?

Good book.


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OfflineSiekoaktiv
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: NEPHROSIS]
    #7580487 - 10/31/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NEPHROSIS said:
I haven't read it in awhile but that yellow shrubby plant they talk about, isn't that sinicuichi?




Thatt's what I thought when I read it.


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I'm in need of a sterile sporeprint, if anyone wants to do a trade for some seeds or something, or maybe just for free if you have a lot of them............. i'd really appreciate it :mushroom2:

NuggetPorch said - "YES! YES!!!! Coaster its Faint, but its fucking there YOU see it!!! Perhaps we are both on some sort of unusual wave length associated with unusual neuro-transmitters, mind expansion white light, or something we can not even begin to understand or fathom to conceive because it is a gift of insight or a curse given to us by powers beyond our control, something we are not meant to know."


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Offlinekotik
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: Siekoaktiv]
    #7603831 - 11/06/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wow, crazy.. I was about to make a post on this exact topic, but did a search first on google, and this was one of the first links! anyways...

I had the same thought, and did some more research on this. I also had an updated version of the book (not sure how updated, and I can't find it to check) where Carlos came back and stated that when smoking the mixture, more went into his mouth and got ingested, than the amount that was burned / smoked.

When discussing with a friend, he mentioned that hallucinogens are absorbed through the mouth as well, and that it can be more potent since the gastric acids and etc. don't break anything down either.

So really, it could have very well been cubes/cyans/etc.

I also got the impression that Don Juan was making everything out to be extreme, due to tradition. I mean, I've done pretty much everything they mentioned in the book substance wise, but never had anyone cut my hand open, or make me run around naked (although I've done it on my own before), or find "my spot" on the floor.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: kotik]
    #7606770 - 11/07/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think the mushrooms are Psilocybe mexicana. The way I understood how the smoke works is this: the mushroom portion doesn't actually burn but is instead pulled into the mouth and the psilocybin is absorbed orally or sublingually.

As for the other ingredients, I think they were just plants added for taste.


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Invisibleperuvian spark
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: bbaeker]
    #7606917 - 11/07/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that one of the ingredients for the "little smoke" was Salvia divinorum. The effects seem similar to me as well as the length of the reported trip. "Makes the body disappear", as Don Juan said indeed! One of the books (The Eagles Gift or Second Ring of Power) even mentions the Mazatec indians who are known for using the plant. Carlos supposodly spent time with a Mazatec healer so I don't think its too far fetched to believe that Don Juan knew about Salvia divinorum as well.

But like another poster mentioned, the plants were only a very small part of the story.


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"The only unchangeable certainty is that nothing is certain and everything is changeable."


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Offlinepsilopod
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: peruvian spark]
    #7607021 - 11/07/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The plants were a small part of the journey but you should not write them off for Don Juan states that w/o the substances that reaching these states was near impossible.  The shrub in the nightshade family that you are thinking of is probably jimson weed which they refer to often as "devil's weed"  due to the fact that something like 20-30% of people have a genetic disposition to die from it.  As mentioned the jimson weed is in the nightshade family; you know, the poisonous stuff, lol.  Even if you don't have a lethal reaction to the jimson weed it almost always results in gut wrenching convulsions/vomitting.  I actually had someone offer this stuff to me one time.  They picked it when they were out in New Mexico/Colorado.  It was this little spikey ball that looked like sea erchin.  I could tell just by looking at it that I definitely shouldn't mess w/ it.  The kid said that he would let me eat it but only under his supervision; I passed on that one. :bongload:


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This and all posts are the work of an imaginary character known as psilopod. Don't believe this rambling drivel, none of it's real, it's fake, it's an illusion, strictly for entertainment purposes. With that being said, enjoy.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: Aopocetx]
    #7607096 - 11/07/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
I think the mushrooms are Psilocybe mexicana. The way I understood how the smoke works is this: the mushroom portion doesn't actually burn but is instead pulled into the mouth and the psilocybin is absorbed orally or sublingually.






I'm going to quote a post I made years ago:

Quote:


Someone said a lot of this smoking shrooms talk is from Carlos Castenada's books. He talks about smoking "Don Juan's mushroom mixture." I have only read the second book, A Separate Reality, and the first time I read it I thought Castenada said he smoked the mushrooms with other plants (Datura is one of them) but the second time I read it I realized I was mistaken:

"Don Juan's procedure to utilize the mushrooms was to let them dry into a fine powder inside a small gourd. He kept the gourd sealed for a year and then mixed the fine mixture with five other dry plants and produced a mixture for smoking in a pipe."

"The process of 'smoking' consisted of ingesting the fine mushroom powder, which did not incinerate, and inhale the smoke of the other five plants that made up the mixture."


Even though it's fictional, I don't think Castenada ever said he even actually smoked them. Maybe he did in his other books.





I forget who suggested it, and I can't find the post, but I now suspect that Castaneda initially wrote in his first book that the mushrooms were smoked, and upon learning that smoking psilocybin mushrooms is impractical or ineffectual, changed the description of the process of "smoking" for later editions of the books. His credibility was under attack because of factual and chronological contradictions in his books, which he claimed were nonfictional accounts.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinechubbycharley
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Re: teachings of don juan [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7610403 - 11/08/07 10:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hmm, i could be wrong, but i don't think he changed anything in the later editions of the book to avoid being disproved, i will have to find an old copy of the book somewhere.

and people bring up the chronological issues as evidence to disprove the reality of these books but i ask you, how well can you describe the timeline of a very intense trip? whenever i try, everything gets all mixed up, in my memory, it seems like everything happened at once. also, a huge part of all of his journeys took place in a dream state. "dreaming" is one of the integral teachings of the Toltec. because it takes place in "a Separate Reality" you can't expect it to be restricted by our illusion of time in this reality.

back on topic, how much did he smoke? the mushrooms would have to be very potent for enough psilocybin to be absorbed through the mouth if he only smoked a bowl. i think most of the effects were from salvia and datura. of course there are synergistic effects that may have played a role in the whole thing.


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if i'm just a stoned stoner, sayin some stoned ass shit, please correct me :smile:


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