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Offlinecromagnon
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food for the fungus
    #7576999 - 10/30/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

this might be a stupid question, but i've noticed in quite a few threads here, that regular plant food, is not helpful for mushroom cultivation. so, what exactly are the mycelium actually consuming in order to derive their nutritional needs? is it the sugars in the grains? what elements in manure, or for that matter, brown rice flour, are used and most beneficial for our mycological pursuits?


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Offlinezathan
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: cromagnon]
    #7577018 - 10/30/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Fungi are are decomposers. Most anything that is biodegradable can host some sort of fungi to break it down. Don't relate them with plants in any way, they are more animal than plant.



You need this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: zathan]
    #7577036 - 10/30/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: cromagnon]
    #7577061 - 10/30/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

mycelium eats it's food in much the same way that flies to.. it excretes metabolites that digest the food and then it reabsorbs the metabolites and the broken down nutritional content.

It cannot, however, absorb nutritional content that itself has not broken down. That is why we say that mushroom "devour/consume" their food-sources and not absorb them like plants. And to put a finer point on it, plants don't absorb their food either. They have the bacteria that live within their leaves that perform photosynthesis to create the carbohydrates they consume. The synthetic fertilizers are only used by the root-systems to absorb the various other minerals and whatnot required to be combined with those carbohydrates so they can be used to create new cellular tissue, etc.

Photosynthesis
6CO2 + 12H2O + sunlight ---> 6O2 + C6H12O6 + 6H2O

...or more simplified...
carbon dioxide + water + sunlight ---> oxygen + carbohydrate + water


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinecromagnon
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: mycocurious]
    #7577146 - 10/30/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

very useful feedback. thanks all. i'm curious if there is some optimal formula that would produce an optimal resulting harvest. what substrate and accompanying elements would make for the happiest crop, and happiest mycologist?


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harmonize with nature. be enchanted...and enthralled!


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: cromagnon]
    #7577241 - 10/30/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

depends on which species you're growing but for the most common carbohydrate consuming species I would recommend some properly finished and aged compost. Making your own compost is a free-renewable source of a substrate that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that you're helping to recycle as well as creating a completely organic final product.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinecromagnon
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: mycocurious]
    #7577305 - 10/30/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what about adding dry malt extract, or cottonseed meal, to the compost before inoculation. what, if anything, supercharges the mixture? and, is it possible for a substrate to be too nutritious for the growing mycelium, creating some sort of backlash in terms of excess waste gases or other noxious counterproductive conditions?


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harmonize with nature. be enchanted...and enthralled!


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OfflineNibin
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: mycocurious]
    #7577487 - 10/30/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
mycelium eats it's food in much the same way that flies to.. it excretes metabolites that digest the food and then it reabsorbs the metabolites and the broken down nutritional content.

It cannot, however, absorb nutritional content that itself has not broken down. That is why we say that mushroom "devour/consume" their food-sources and not absorb them like plants. And to put a finer point on it, plants don't absorb their food either. They have the bacteria that live within their leaves that perform photosynthesis to create the carbohydrates they consume. The synthetic fertilizers are only used by the root-systems to absorb the various other minerals and whatnot required to be combined with those carbohydrates so they can be used to create new cellular tissue, etc.

Photosynthesis
6CO2 + 12H2O + sunlight ---> 6O2 + C6H12O6 + 6H2O

...or more simplified...
carbon dioxide + water + sunlight ---> oxygen + carbohydrate + water




I don't want to be a pain but...


Plants do absorb their food even if for them food isn't an energy source (as is for us) but a supply of building materials for them.

The nutrients absorbed by tha plant are used (with the help of energy produced by burning carbohydrates produced with light) to form the proteins and DNA of the plant but this applies to the whole plant, not the root system only. It isn't that fertilizers help the roots absorb the minerals and such but that the fertilizers ARE the minerals and such, and by adding more of them it's easier to absorb.

Also, carbohydrates are produced using CO2 and water with sunlight as you have already said but not by bacteria in the leaves, but by a structure inside the actual plant cells called a Chloroplast (which are what make leaves green because they contain clorophyll).

One of the theories of the origin of both cloroplasts and mytocondria is that they used to be millions of years ago, an independent kind of bacteria that formed a symbiosis with another cell, but now they are certainly part of the cell and not an independent kind of bacteria.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: cromagnon]
    #7577518 - 10/30/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cromagnon said:
what about adding dry malt extract, or cottonseed meal, to the compost before inoculation. what, if anything, supercharges the mixture? and, is it possible for a substrate to be too nutritious for the growing mycelium, creating some sort of backlash in terms of excess waste gases or other noxious counterproductive conditions?




Oh, and sorry forgot to answer this.

Unless your mixes contain huge toxic amounts of a single substance, as in loads of glucose (jams keep for ages because they are too sweet for contams to live in), or loads of salt, ammonia, or other unwanted substances then you should have no problems.

What I mean is that if you get a bunch of stuff you know mycelia likes, such as poo, straw, grain, some coir, mix in a small amount of supplements such as coffee grounds, vegetable oil, Gypsum, you can end up with a well balanced nutrient content BUT, don't add stuff intended for plants, or pour urine or huge amounts of honey or ten bottles of oil or anything silly like that.

Balance is the key.


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Offlinecromagnon
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Re: food for the fungus [Re: Nibin]
    #7578789 - 10/30/07 10:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for the info.


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