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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain
#7576912 - 10/30/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Robo (08/12/15 11:25 PM)
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7576942 - 10/30/07 02:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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look to the internet .. you can get gypsum and rye grain from online vendors .. try this sites sponsors first ..
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: orchidfanatic]
#7576961 - 10/30/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thought about it. Shipping will be a pain, and I want to buy in bulk.
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d4a2n0k
The Dude


Registered: 07/23/03
Posts: 742
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7576968 - 10/30/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Look in your local yellow pages under "feed" call some of the stores and ask about what they have in stock. Most of them carry a VERY wide variety of things you will find useful.
-------------------- Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7576987 - 10/30/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Another thing I'm having trouble finding is grain in bulk (particularly rye berries). My local hippy health food store carries BRF, whole wheat, Rye flour, etc. but at very little for very high cost. It's just not enough for any larger scale project.
Just use birdseed. I'm still not clear on what the benefits of rye are, but it's incredibly cheap and ubiquitous.
You can eliminate gypsum. I'd like to hear from anyone ballsy enough to try crumbled wallboard, too; most lack fungicides or chemical treatment of any kind, but have a bit of starches and glue.
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Theo Nanacatl
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7576994 - 10/30/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lowe's does stock gypsum...I bought several 5# bags from them when it was on sale for 99 cents per bag. I comes in a plastic bag, white with 2" brown band around the bottom. Top of bag has the green "Epsoma" brand banner, and directly below says "Organic Traditions". Labeled at the bottom as Garden Gypsum. Bag has artwork of a flower-covered garden trellis.
I found the bags in with the gardening aisle with the fertilizers and pesticides, along with the bone meal and blood meal and stuff.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577004 - 10/30/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Look in your local yellow pages under "feed" call some of the stores and ask about what they have in stock. Most of them carry a VERY wide variety of things you will find useful.
I would strongly recommend against it. I've tried buying bulk feed before, and it's extremely difficult to *know* that what you're getting is fungicide-free. Particularly in states with naturally occurring cubensis, such feed is all but legally mandated.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577013 - 10/30/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Robo (08/12/15 11:26 PM)
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GuffeyJon
Stranger



Registered: 10/11/07
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577029 - 10/30/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577033 - 10/30/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't want to skip the gypsum, either.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: GuffeyJon]
#7577041 - 10/30/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
GuffeyJon said: http://www.espoma.com/finddealer.aspx
It did, thanks. I found a location near me. So, gypsum problem solved then I guess
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577082 - 10/30/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Get a WBS with a high millet content; you'll be pleasantly surprised. I hate wheat too...and that smell...ugh. Rye is worth hunting for for a substrate, but WBS is a dandy spawn.
I've never found anyone who experimented with popcorn extensively enough to adopt it. The endospore reports are mixed with many saying it requires supplementary PCing, and moisture retention is atrocious.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577089 - 10/30/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Out of curiosity (and my apologies, I just reread your post)...why no bulk spawn? And why bother with gypsum for a grain substrate? Gypsum is used to control pH and thereby allow colonization to occur without contamination; you'll be PCing the totality of your substrate, rendering it completely irrelevant.
Edit: you'll be incredibly disappointed with popcorn as a substrate. Simply does not work well at all due to the moisture issues. I'm willing to guess the popcorn substrate posts you're finding are over 3-4 years old.
Edited by CaptainLinger (10/30/07 02:53 PM)
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577116 - 10/30/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Robo (08/12/15 11:27 PM)
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577121 - 10/30/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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(I'll throw the popcorn idea out the window if you really feel it's that bad)
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577130 - 10/30/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes; the reason there hasn't been much experimentation with popcorn is just...it has a few high points (shaking is easy, it colonizes quickly), but in the end there was just too much irritation for most people to use it.
WBS, and pretty much all spawn grains, can be used as substrate. WBS makes a middling one, not as good as rye. I would very strongly advise spawning; not only does it quadruple your output for very little additional work, it need not be dirty or a huge pain. I usually advise beginners to bulk to try WBS ---> coco coir/coffee, but search the forums. You'll also find a lot more threads about WBS substrate that way.
Edited by CaptainLinger (10/30/07 03:05 PM)
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577133 - 10/30/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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actually gypsum is used to prevent the grain from sticking together and acts as a PH buffer. it does little to nothing on PH values lime raises PH to counter the acidity of peat when using it as a casing. or sometimes in substrate formulas that want to keep the PH slightly higher to retard bacterial growth
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: orchidfanatic]
#7577159 - 10/30/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The point is that he's colonizing 100% of his grain, in sterile conditions. No reason to fuck with the acidity in a pre-existing substrate; the colonization on its own will ward off contaminants.
And what exactly is "preventing the grain from sticking together" going to help when that's exactly what he wants?
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577183 - 10/30/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is WBS fairly contaminant resistant?
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577190 - 10/30/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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To be fair, I just leafed through a bunch of RR's old posts. I'm going to read up a bit in the Mushroom Cultivator, but best to let him speak to this one. Quite a few posts refer to minimal levels increasing yields, not just buffering pH.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577195 - 10/30/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is WBS fairly contaminant resistant?
I'm not sure what would make any substrate particularly resistant; mushroom-friendly tends to mean mold-friendly. Used as spawn and properly sterilized, I've had maybe 1 jar out of 100 contaminate with bacteria.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,975
Loc: PNW
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577199 - 10/30/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adagio said: Thought about it. Shipping will be a pain, and I want to buy in bulk.
I GOT A HUGE BAG THAT COULD POSSIBLY CAUSE A HERNIA FORM FRED MYER.
Only used it once.
Grain clumping with wbs has not been a issue with me ever.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577204 - 10/30/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Calcium Sulfate is essential, that's all I know. I don't entirely know the reasons for why it is, but multiple books I have and RR's vid both use it.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577230 - 10/30/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Calcium Sulfate is gypsum. It's not essential particularly for grain, though again, I'd ask RR in a PM how helpful it will be to an all-grain grow. I've never bothered to locate it, and never had any particular problems in dozens of coir, manure, and grain grows.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain *DELETED* [Re: Robo]
#7577255 - 10/30/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Robo (08/12/15 11:28 PM)
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577259 - 10/30/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Robo (08/12/15 11:28 PM)
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577274 - 10/30/07 03:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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WBS: Anywhere. Look for the cheap stuff, as the sunflower seeds are the priciest and are conventionally picked out. A high milo content is preferable; I've seen all-milo jars colonize like wildfire.
Poo: Yes. Unfortunately store-bought manure is usually cow manure, composted and mixed with humus, all of which is bad. It has the consistency of mud making it infuriating to pasteurize, and needs a 50/50 combination with vermiculite to achieve the proper consistency.
This is why I'd go with coir, if you have a pet store nearby. I use pure hpoo harvested from stables...but I moved to coir after just three tries with straw/cpoo and verm/cpoo. There are 3 huge sacks of the stuff sitting in my stairwell, and I'll probably throw them out.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577294 - 10/30/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Coir huh? Hmmm It would seem I have to do some reading and step up my game. All I've done is whole wheat substrate w/ 50/50 case and BRF.
I can get WBS from a pet store as well could I not? One stop shopping is always a plus.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577352 - 10/30/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does coir need to be pasteurized like poo?
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7577665 - 10/30/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Adagio, yes...but it's steam treated like I mentioned in the PM. You can get lazy. And indeed...I get my coir at a grow shop now, but I used to double up on the cheap. Full grow for under 20 bucks.
He also dug up some of my old (only tried a few times, and not well) posts on coir, during the Great Coir Casing Wars of spring this year. Oops! It works. Well.
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orchidfanatic
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7577694 - 10/30/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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the reason you dont want them to stick is because you want them to lose moisture on the surface of the kernel otherwise the parts that stick together will be too wet for mycelium
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CaptainLinger
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: orchidfanatic]
#7578756 - 10/30/07 10:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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uh, what?
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Robo
R Series 66Y
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7578781 - 10/30/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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orchidfanatic
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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7579643 - 10/31/07 07:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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if the grain sticks together you wont get the proper moisture content evenly on the grain surface.. say if the grains stick together that mass of grain will be high in moisture inside the sticky mass so the mycelium wont be able to grow into that area since its too wet .. did I make that more clear ? sorry it was late for me last night .. that is one reason why you would want to use gypsum do you have to have gypsum ? no but it would be a good idea if you wanted to get the best results possible .. thats why people use it ..
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Vegan
using the searchbutton



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Re: Can't Find Gypsum or Bulk Grain [Re: Robo]
#7579871 - 10/31/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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you have a PM
-------------------- I came, I saw , I came back
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