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Offlinemindspin
Heirophant

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Incubation Questions
    #7576714 - 10/30/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've been reading about incubation, and I'm curious, how does the process of incubation affect colonization? My friend never used any incubation methods and his mushies turned out great, but I'm thinking about setting up an incubator.


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Invisibleveilbreaker
Sour girl
Female

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 528
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: mindspin]
    #7576875 - 10/30/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Incubating encourages faster growth. They will still colonize fine at room temperature, though.


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People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character.

    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

:amanitajar: :rose:


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: mindspin]
    #7576880 - 10/30/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the core substrate temperature does effect linear growth of mycelium.

the peak of this growth comes at a 86 degree inner core temperature.
which for pf jars means about a 80-82 degree ambient air temperature.
for grain jars it's about a 76-80 degree air temperature,
and for bulk substrates it's a 68-75 degree air temperature.

The thicker the medium that is colonizing, the more heat it will
produce on it's own while colonizing.
A 5lb substrate bag can easily be 15 degrees warmer in the
substrate than the surrounding air.

If you go just one degree over 86 for inner core temperature,
linear growth rates fall off dramatically.



once the inner core temp goes over 86, bacteria becomes a very
real and major concern. plus mycelium growth quickly slows.

the key is to keep the inner core temperature between 80 and 85.
that's done by first figuring out about how thick the medium is,
then adjusting the air temp accordingly.

for any and all substrates and media, room temperature is your
safest and best bet. The growth rate will be very good and the
chance for overheating and ruining the media will be very low.
at most you'll only lose about one day on optimal growth, but you'll
gain tons of peace of mind and a great success ratio. which is
worth it's weight in gold... or shrooms.


--------------------



Edited by monstermitch (10/30/07 02:42 PM)


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OfflineLocus
Male


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Re: Incubation Questions [Re: monstermitch]
    #7576887 - 10/30/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

very nice mitch :thumbup:


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
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Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: monstermitch]
    #7576892 - 10/30/07 02:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

+5 for excelent complete answer including visual aid.


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: mindspin]
    #7576893 - 10/30/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

in my humble opinion the difference between incubating at 68(F) and 80(F) is only two or three days - however, the risk of having a dormant bacterial contamination germinating and overrunning the spawn (grain/pf-jar) before the favored mycelium can consolidate control is far greater.

In other words, lower temperatures in the 72-75(F) range allows a slightly greater margin for error in terms of sterilization and sterile procedures as most bacterial contaminates will remain dormant until they get into the 78(F)+ temperature range.

Another thing to consider is that mycelium produces heat. A jar that is kept at 75(F) may have an internal temperature of 77-78(F) and a jar kept at 80(F) might have an internal temperature around 82-84(F). The reason this is significant is because in temperatures over 82(F) the mycelium begins to experience stress from the heat and things actually slow down.

This is even more important when considering bulk substrate trays. The heat produced by 6+ quarts of substrate / spawn material is (relatively) significant and it can cause the internal temps to rise 5-10(F) internally instead of the 2-3(F) differences we saw in our spawn jars. When you get temperatures that high, not only do have to worry more about contaminates but you also have to worry about fermentation. (search the archives for fermentation sometime)

I've lost an entire run to fermentation before even when incubating at 75(F) degrees because they were on wooden shelves instead of wire racks. That wood absorbed and reflected back all that heat into my trays overheating them. ROYAL PITA - and for the record/archives - Fermentation can happen with non-manure based composts as well. :sigh:


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinemindspin
Heirophant

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: mycocurious] * 1
    #7577109 - 10/30/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks a lot for your help guys, I think I'm going to stay away from the incubation in this case. (less work for me anyhow!)


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InvisibleNwerd
Stranger
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Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 259
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: mindspin]
    #7577170 - 10/30/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Try and keep ambient temp at 86-87... I emptied my whole closet and stuck a thermostat control space heater in there and set it to 88. I have a indoor outdoor temp gauge... Outdoor is placed directly under one of my jars, or casing trays. If the outside temp remains 87-88.. then in the jars themselves it will be cool because I am using air to warm them up. It's worked out awesome for me especially when I am trying to inc 6 or so big ass trays full of horse poo and casing... you know. The heater cost 100 bucks... but well worth it, before I was checking the temps in there all the time and boy did they flux.. You could probably let it even scoot up to about 90 but I wouldn't keep it there. Incubating at the highest temp you can get away with makes a huge difference on colonization time... Not to mention when you drop the temp to 75 for fruiting.. the temp shift will encourage the myc to pin.


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Offlineacommunistspy
the fun nazi,NOT to beconfused withthe fun-nazi


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Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 657
Loc: the garden state
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Incubation Questions *DELETED* [Re: Nwerd]
    #7577206 - 10/30/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by acommunistspy

Reason for deletion: this never happened



--------------------


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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 150
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: acommunistspy]
    #7610962 - 11/08/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)


edit: never happened. :wink:


Edited by shroom_ninja (11/08/07 12:29 PM)


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7611047 - 11/08/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I never allow my spawn, substrate or fruiting chambers to ever get above 78-80(F). There is no reason ever to subject the mycelium to that level of stress. I'm sorry Nwerd, that's misquoted from bad advice. Higher temperatures like that only allow things like bacterial contamination, fermentation and other failures to happen.

And, should you get through all of those unscathed, fruits grown in higher temperatures like those tend to be thinner with hollow stalks, and in the case of cubensis, less potent... 72-78(F) is ideal from incubation to fruiting for these species.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7611048 - 11/08/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

One of these days, people will quit posting what they've 'read' elsewhere that 86F is the ideal temperature. It is not. By the time the core of a mycelial network has reached 86F, it's well slowed down over the maximum rate of growth, which occurs between 75F and 81F.

When people read the incorrect temperature, they do silly things like build incubators, when normal room temperature will work just fine with far less chance of contamination. If you have a room that is 75F, use it and allow jars to colonize on an open shelf for best results.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7611061 - 11/08/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Im colonizing mine in a humidor .. its 100% dark and about between 69 and 75 all the time. I figured a humidoe would help keep out contam.. is this wrong?


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Incubation Questions [Re: Slimz]
    #7611078 - 11/08/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Use open air. You don't want to take a chance on the filter material getting damp. Also, normal room lighting has no effect on colonizing mycelium, either good or bad. There is no reason to keep jars in the dark. 69F is a tad on the cool side and colonization speed will be lower. 75F is fine, so try to keep it up in that range.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7611088 - 11/08/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

awesome.. gitcha


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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Offlinemarz13
Unseen
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Registered: 10/30/07
Posts: 155
Loc: Arizona
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Incubation Questions [Re: Slimz]
    #7611445 - 11/08/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I just tossed a contaminated jar "black fuzzy stuff". I had made a incubator with a fish tank heater. I keep the temp at 86 degrees. The humidity was always high. My jars look soaked. They are at about 85% colonized but have stopped all of a sudden. After reading few threads on the subject matter I disassembled the incubator and put the remaining jars in a dark closet at about 75 degrees. I hope they make it. :undecided:


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