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OfflineJunkFood
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If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal?
    #7575742 - 10/30/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If our law enforcement back then was an army, like it is now, would alcohol be illegal?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7575753 - 10/30/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

r u crazY? IT WAS ILLEGAL and they eventually saw all the lost $$$$ and felt really retarded.


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Offlineboxcarguy07
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: learningtofly]
    #7575770 - 10/30/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

he said "still illegal" in the title. he knows it used to be illegal :rolleyes:


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:musicnote:Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.:musicnote:


:psychsplit:"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
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OfflineSillyButtons
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7575776 - 10/30/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think the intent of the Volstead act was to make hooch illegal forever. Rather, the Feds just wanted to bring alcohol production under their control so they could get tax revenues. Crush the bootleggers, and the Mafia, then say "it's okay to drink now!" The real joke is that they didn't crush the Mafia (only one or two highly visible targets), they just made them richer than God.


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Travel on the cheap. Be a cultural ambassador. Spend the night on a stranger's couch!

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OfflineStizzle
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: SillyButtons]
    #7575823 - 10/30/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think if the 18th amendment never happened, drug and alcohol use would be way down. The drinkers would have kept on drinking and wouldn't have been forced to find alternatives (marihuana, cocaine, heroin, etc.)

The mafia and other crime syndicates wouldn't have been so prevalent and the act of drinking wouldn't be seen as rebellious.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7575982 - 10/30/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JunkFood said:
If our law enforcement back then was an army, like it is now, would alcohol be illegal?



You're asking two different questions. In the thread title you're asking if it would be illegal if it weren't for all the crime in the 20s. Then you ask if it would be illegal if law enforcement were as extensive back then as it is today. It seems your underlying assumption is that more law enforcement = less crime. Based on what we've seen with the War on Drugs, I disagree with this premise.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7576002 - 10/30/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If there wasn't this one iceberg, would the Titanic still be unsinkable?

The trouble for law enforcement is that they live in lala land where several realities about drug prohibition do not exist. Drug prohibition only works if only a very small group have tasted the pleasures, and did not find it worth pursuing against a draconian system.

Alcohol prohibition was doomed to fail, just as drug prohibition is doomed to fail.

Wouldn't you in the 1920s have loved the thrill of visiting a Speak easy to drink the naughty beverages and have a great time with your fellow conspirators? Wouldn't you come visit the Shroomery and listen to wacky foreigners like myself who detail plans for fermentations and DIY distillation apparatus?

You can ferment your own wash, and distill it in your kitchen using pots and pans:





Nowadays, a moonshiner can very conveniently distill a liter of vodka or similar spirits for one dollar. Fact.

The Prohibition was DOOMED to fail. What you would get is a population that is largely civil disobedient and who are supplied by smalltime brewers and distillers living among us, just like the cannabis subculture is supplied by smalltime growers living among us.

America is all about capitalism. Well guess what: if there's demand, there is going to be supply to meet it.

Alcohol
Cannabis
Shrooms
Cocaine
Opium

Unstoppable force.


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: Asante]
    #7576031 - 10/30/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i think prohibition failed because it was furtile, uneconomical, and the average person was not convinced of its success, nor that they shouldn't be allowed to imbide

FOr the same reasons I hope the drug prohibition movement will reverse


Anyways, Wiccan, you post that woc still everywhere.... You got a patent or something?


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: Stizzle]
    #7576045 - 10/30/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think that alcohol drinkers actively sought out other drugs because of prohibition. They just bought illegal alcohol. It wasn't very difficult to get.

Our problems with alcohol stem from it being see as something exciting and novel for younger people. In Europe people are introduced to alcohol at an earlier age and the drinking age is much lower. They also have much stricter DUI penalties and better education about alcohol use.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleSunny
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: Stizzle]
    #7576497 - 10/30/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stizzle said:
I think if the 18th amendment never happened, drug and alcohol use would be way down.  The drinkers would have kept on drinking and wouldn't have been forced to find alternatives (marihuana, cocaine, heroin, etc.)

The mafia and other crime syndicates wouldn't have been so prevalent and the act of drinking wouldn't be seen as rebellious.




:lol:

Heroin addiction has been a problem since it was first synth'd in the late 1800's.

In fact, opiates became controlled as a direct result of civil war vet addiction to Morphine. It was epidemic, to say the least.

Cannabis was largely out of the public eye until the mid 1920's, when the textile industry singled it out for prohibition.

I think alcoholism is a chronic part of western culture. Binge drinking has been around since biblical times, so to say drug/alcohol use would be lower as a result of farcicle lobbyist law; well, it just seems silly.

You may be right about the prevalence of alcoholism as a form of rebellion though. It might be lower in the US, among people under 21. The rest is entirely speculative.


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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: Sunny]
    #7576556 - 10/30/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Marijuana was made illegal because black Jazz musicians and Mexicans like to smoke it. You use to be able to buy products containing cocaine and heroin over the counter. It was epidemic, as Sunny said.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineStizzle
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: Sunny]
    #7576623 - 10/30/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sunny said:

I think alcoholism is a chronic part of western culture. Binge drinking has been around since biblical times, so to say drug/alcohol use would be lower as a result of farcicle lobbyist law; well, it just seems silly.





I said it would be lower if there never were a "farcicle" lobbyist law.


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Invisiblewps
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Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7576711 - 10/30/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If people back then saw all the crime that prohibition created and decided that prohibition was dumb,

then they are a lot smarter than the people of today who look at the gang problems in Miami and LA and think: "mandatory minimums will fix this".


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleSunny
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: wps]
    #7576800 - 10/30/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:
If people back then saw all the crime that prohibition created and decided that prohibition was dumb,

then they are a lot smarter than the people of today who look at the gang problems in Miami and LA and think: "mandatory minimums will fix this".




QFT


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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!


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Offlineravin0fff
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Registered: 10/17/07
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: robbyberto]
    #7576923 - 10/30/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Marijuana was made illegal because black Jazz musicians and Mexicans like to smoke it.




no, it wasn't

it was banned for big business, not for some obscure dislike of blacks and mexicans


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: ravin0fff]
    #7577002 - 10/30/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ravin0fff said:
Quote:

robbyberto said:
Marijuana was made illegal because black Jazz musicians and Mexicans like to smoke it.




no, it wasn't

it was banned for big business, not for some obscure dislike of blacks and mexicans



It was first banned in Southwestern states like Arizona and New Mexico, where people were concerned about the growing influx of Mexicans.


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Invisiblewps
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: ravin0fff]
    #7577016 - 10/30/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

marijuana and other drugs are illegal because some bureaucrat named Anslinger wanted to keep his job as Commissioner of the Bureau of Prohibition after alcohol prohibition was repealed. So he created this huge buzz about weed and how dangerous it was, thus justifying his new official appointment as the first drug czar.


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: wps]
    #7577035 - 10/30/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Anslinger didn't do it alone. We can thank William Randolph Hearst and his yellow journalism for a great deal of the hype.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: ravin0fff]
    #7577169 - 10/30/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What big business was that? The industry that didn't want hemp to be used? The fact that it was used by minorities more than whites played a large part. America was extremely racist back then.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: If it weren't for the crime in the 20s, would alcohol still be illegal? [Re: robbyberto]
    #7577372 - 10/30/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
What big business was that? The industry that didn't want hemp to be used? The fact that it was used by minorities more than whites played a large part. America was extremely racist back then.




Dupont. More specifically the synthetic fiber industry.


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