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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Help me experience Ayahuasca
#7575102 - 10/30/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Me and a friend are looking at making Ayahuasca soon. We'd be using Passion flower (harmaline I believe) and Phalaris grass. I believe arundacea. I few things of interest to me:
A. passsion flower has some alkaloids structurally similar to benzoflavones, these are mild sedatives, the most you can get out of it is feeling like you're on 75 mg of vicodin, or 3 beers, you know barely buzzing. Would these sedatives have a large impact on the ayahuasca? Has anyone heard of benzoflavone interaction with ayahuasca?
B. I read that arundacea only had DMT, and no bufeotenine or 5-me-O-DMT on erowid, but before I jump into using phalaris (there's fields of it, so I can get as much as necessary), does anyone have experience with this and know if it's even worth going into a DMT trip on phalaris arundacea?
C. I can't find any information on harmine and harmaline content ration in passiflora incarnata. Can someone help me with that? I saw several reports of people attempting to use passion flower as an MAOI for DMT, but most say that they were not sufficient. My guess is that it wasn't enough DMT or passion flower.
D. Would you suggest me boiling the two plants seperate or in the same mixture? I now many of you have made ayahuasca before and I'm sure you've developed a preference.
E. Dietary issues that seem to arise. Erowid has no guides on this, and I've seen it discussed in past tiopics on ayahuasca. It'd be nice to not see what you can't eat but maybe what you can eat for sure. (You guys have any foods you always fall back on whenever your preparing your body?)
Could I possibly get a better Harmaline extraction with alcahol absorption, then evaporation, then add to the brew?
The reason for me using the two worst plants to use for ayahuasca is because they are extremely common around here and I can literally walk ten minutes two have pounds upon pounds of plant material at my ready availability. For sure I need to make enough ayahuasca for me and one other friend. But I have a sort of "psychadelic" cirlce of friends, some I have a very good connection with and wood like to share this with.
Also is it possible to store ayahuasca and how, and for how long? Can I bowl (or simmer) down the DMT containing brew just like I could simmer down the harmaline containing brew?
Thank you for all your help. Best intentions.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7576051 - 10/30/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have not ever read about passionflower being used successfully as an MAOI. Why don't you want to take the traditional plants? They are easily available and have ten thousand years of indigenous use behind them.
I would suggest going to the ayahuasca.com forums, but make sure you don't call what you are planning to make 'ayahuasca' because it does not actually contain the ayahuasca vine
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7576226 - 10/30/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you have an abundance of passionflower and phalaris grass then I don't see any problem with your using them instead of the typical plants. You probably should make 2 separate brews though. I've had better luck that way but, then again, I also haven't ever tried making a super potent single brew which I'm sure would work pretty well too.
I would probably shy away from doing anything involving an alcohol extraction just for the fact that ayahuasca doesn't traditionally involve any processes like that.
As far as the diet goes, I did fine with only eating soy-free pita bread, rice cakes and lettuce within 24 hours before and after. You should really fast completely for at least about 6 or 8 hours beforehand though. Good luck!
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: truffleupagus]
#7577471 - 10/30/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gotcha. Is it okay to add ginger to both brews to reduce nausea and maybe make the experience more enjoyable?
Also do I not have to worry about boiling out alkaloids? So I can basically, add plant matter boil it down alot, take out plant matter, add new plant matter and new water and reboil down to small size?
Could this be said for the DMT, and for the Harmaline?
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7577513 - 10/30/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also...Since it'll be my first time with Ayahuasca me and my friend would want to start low and move higher. Is Ayahuasca like DMT where you have to take your dose at once or it takes no effect? (I wouldn't think so since it lasts longer but you never know...)
I'd like to get the dosing for us down to about one cup each and for us to first sip 1/3 of the cup, then move to 1/2 and we can judge from the to drink to 3/4 or drink all of it. Would this cause for multiple and way too many purges? Are the purges bad (I purged on morning glories and it was very clean and quick with little nausea)? I think I could handle throwing up multiple times if needed for the experience. I just really want to be smart about it and not dose to heavy my first time.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7577641 - 10/30/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm honestly not really sure about the ginger and I don't want to tell you it's okay if it's not. I would say that it should be fine and should help eliminate some of the nausea but just make sure that it's okay with the MAOIs.
As far as boiling it several times, it's been my experience that the brew does nothing but gets more potent with more boiling. This seems to go for the harmaline as well as the DMT. Although, I did notice that if you try to reuse your plant matter and brew a second time, something is missing from the experience. So not worth it IMO. Just boil each plant for a good five/six hours. You'll need a lot of water but it should come out well.
You're smart for wanting to start out with 1/3 of your resulting brew though. It can be very hard to know exactly how potent your brew is so it's best to play it safe. As far as I know, there's no tolerance issues with DMT so you could essentially keep drinking and keep the experience going. But you may drink only 1/3 and decide that you'd rather save the rest for another time.
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Drewwyann
Slayer of ticks



Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 4,077
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7577681 - 10/30/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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well what you should know first is you shouldn't call passion flower + phalaris grass ayahuasca.
If you've had this lecture before, then forgive me for giving it to you again, but ayahuasca means "vine of the souls" and is the name given to the b caapi vine. That vine alone made into a brew is ayahuasca. Anything else you add to the brew just makes it ayahuasca + something else. It must be b caapi vine to truly be ayahuasca.
Now that thats been said, i think that passion flower and phalaris grass would be a pretty hard thing to work with. One, because dosing with passion flower would be pretty difficult, and 2, because phalaris grass doesn't have the highest concentration of DMT that you could get with other admixtures. I don't know how many sources of passion flower potency/dosage there are and i guess based on that you could go for it or not.
But i would just order some rue, or better, some B caapi (something i have yet to try when im ready) (i just had deja vu. Thought you would like to know).
anyhoo, i would at least get a more powerful maoi. cause a weak DMT admixture + a weak maoi doesn't sound like you will be able to get out of it what you might be expecting.
Whenever i feel nausea, i usually put a strong mint in my mouth. It makes me feel clean, and that does the trick.
--------------------
 Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931 Love powerfully  
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yageman
already dead


Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Drewwyann]
#7578073 - 10/30/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said:
anyhoo, i would at least get a more powerful maoi. cause a weak DMT admixture + a weak maoi doesn't sound like you will be able to get out of it what you might be expecting.
Ya, I agree fully.
Most of what I have read about it goes sort of like this.
"In my experience, Passionflower is too weak a source of beta-carbolines >of the right type to be of much use; hundreds of grams of the stuff >is not as useful as 3g of P.harmala. The best results of my >experiments involved eating about 70 passionflower 4:1 concentrate >pills (which was no mean feat) and then having a change in >the intensity and the quality of smoked DMT. Oral DMT was still >apparently inactive". ------------------------------------------------------------------
You should really think about ordering some super potent maoi like P harmala, or the less potent but more often used "vine of the souls".
Also, phalaris is heavier on the 5-meo-dmt, and not so much nn-dmt. I have read that in several places, and 5-meo-dmt dominant plants are a whole hell of alot different than the plants used in the most traditional forms of ayahuasca.
So in reality, your ayahuasca couldnt be farther from the real deal, or the shit you have read about.
-------------------- [quote]Me_Roy said: You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life. Thanks shroomery.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: yageman]
#7578263 - 10/30/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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On erowid there is no recorded alkaloids for arundacea but it says the the only bufeotenine and 5-meo containing phallaris is Tuberosa. It says that there's speculation on the net that arundacea is purely DMT, but no actual studies seem to have been made.
I have pounds worth of passion flower, and pounds worth of phallaris, I like the thought of using what is at hand in nature around me to make the ayahuasca like brew.
I'm not really looking to order or buy things from the internet. I'm just wanting to attempt this expirement. There's no data list for the range that pssiflora incarnata could contain for MAOI's. Can someone help me with this? And also erowid is lacking concrete data lists for phallaris arundacea DMT:plant matter ratio. I too would appreciate it if someone helped me look for this.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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JungleBaby
Stranger

Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Iquitos, Peru
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: Drewwyann]
#9975299 - 03/15/09 08:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Personally, I would try and find some experienced Shamans to drink with as they are an integral part of the ceremony, and will guide you and protect you through the whole process. I have only drunk down in the amazon and have been fortunate to work with two incredibly experienced and generous Ayahuasceros. I guess the other option is to find someone who holds ceremonies in the states, just do your homework first. Good luck!
Junglebaby
[flash=,]http://metamorphosisfilm.com[/flash]
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Help me experience Ayahuasca [Re: JungleBaby]
#9975346 - 03/15/09 09:04 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have searched and searched and have never found any useful information on the levels of MAOI's in incarnata. I have made high-dose teas, and have been absolutely unable to stay awake. The sedative properties are profound in higher doses, which would not be a useful trait in such a brew. Not only this, but for the obvious fact that there are only trivial levels of MAOI in this plant, probably of a completely unusable amount. I have only experience with Phalaris aquatica(tuberosa), so I cant speak for arundinacae. The speculation about this species containing purely DMT is false. Check this link here:
[url=http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/65/2/199]http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content /abstract/65/2/199[/url]
I have some other info on alkaloid content on my comp, I'll post it when I find it. But from what I've read, arundinacea tends to have high concentrations of N,N, DMT, 5-meo-DMT, and gramine. Bufotenine and other alkaloids tend to be present, but none of this is set in stone, as alkaloid concentrations vary greatly depending on the plant and its growing conditions. For the simple fact that these plants do contain gramine and bufotenine, I would be extremely cautious. When smoked, these alkaloids have given me horrible obnoxious headaches, so there is no telling how these may effect the body when taken orally with an MAOI.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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