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Offlinedismantled02
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The Beatles: The true rock inspiration?
    #7574698 - 10/29/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A lot of people would agree that the Beatles were the best music group of the century. I was wondering what rock fans thought of this.


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Invisiblelavod
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7574752 - 10/29/07 10:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

93
No, but they certainly were one of the most influencial. I feel that the greatest aspect of the beatles was that they started out as a goody band and gained an absolutely huge following. Then, as they got into drugs and projected the counter-culture in a positive light, the mass was forced to notice and begin to think "hmmm, maybe the contemporary concept of freedom and righteousness is distorted". That is why they were so feared by the government. Because they had the power to get people to think and break from the mold.
93 93/93


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Offlinedisturbed
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: lavod]
    #7574789 - 10/29/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This is pretty much off topic but I had someone try and tell me that my chemical romance was better than the beatles the other day and really had to try and contain myself there was almost a blood bath.


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: disturbed]
    #7575239 - 10/30/07 01:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I personally find The Velvet Underground more inspiring but I doubt anyone will agree with me


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: dismantled02]
    #7575307 - 10/30/07 02:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:03 PM)


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OfflineBoots
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #7575609 - 10/30/07 07:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Most musically talented of the century? No
My favorite band of the century? No
Most influential band of the century? Yes


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: lavod]
    #7575617 - 10/30/07 07:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A careful review of their early history will show that they were a corporate invention, destined for fame regardless, and no different from the Backstreet Boys or (I hate to say it, but it's true) Led Zeppelin.

Most of the Beatles and Zepplin's best works were thanks largely to world-class producers, enigineers and songwriters not in the bands, and their success was guaranteed by heavy corporate funding and promotion.

I know that doesn't mean they weren't any good, but they had such a huge head start, you have to give more credit to bands that climbed their way to the top from the bottom.

Quote:

lavod said:

That is why they were so feared by the government. Because they had the power to get people to think and break from the mold. 93 93/93




I'd say that applies more to post-Beatles John Lennon.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Middleman]
    #7575633 - 10/30/07 07:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A careful review of their early history will show that they were a corporate invention
So you are saying that they didnt meet as youths in school, but were in fact set up by a producer?

Most of the Beatles and Zepplin's best works were thanks largely to producers and songwriters not in the bands,
Absolutely not true (in the beatles case)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7575642 - 10/30/07 07:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Their FIRST producer was Sir George Martin! They literally started at the top.

"They took the song into the studio and played it to producer George Martin at the end of their Love Me Do session. Martin thought the song needed work and suggested they speed it up and add some harmonised voices..."


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7575665 - 10/30/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hyper_Panda_GO said:
I personally find The Velvet Underground more inspiring but I doubt anyone will agree with me




I don't know about inspiring, but I like VU better than the beatles.

Come to think of it... They both, I think, have some poppy song with "Sun" in the title that sound similar

Who loves the sun - VU
Here comes thesun - Beatles

Actually.. they sound almost copyright-infringingly similar.. and I'm pretty sure the velvet underground version came first.

Those douchebag Beatles!



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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Middleman]
    #7575670 - 10/30/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They didnt start with that producer. They meet as teens and played in clubs and the like. They didnt start at the top, they just got to the top real fast once they were 'discovered'.

And they certainly were not a corporate invention, they formed as a band before signing record deals. They were a teen-age boy band, and most modern boy bands are corporate inventions, but that doesnt mean they were.


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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7575976 - 10/30/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dismantled02 said:
A lot of people would agree that the Beatles were the best music group of the century. I was wondering what rock fans thought of this.



I think anyone interested in labeling a singular group from the last century as 'the best' is out of their minds. I don't care what the Rolling Stone or VH1 says, it can't be done and it oughtn't be seriously attempted.

Such a variety of incredible music has come from the last century. As far as I'm concerned the last century has served as a rebirth for music and will undoubtedly be marked in the history books as such, so long as there are history books.


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7576014 - 10/30/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I KNOW!


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Offlinedismantled02
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7579516 - 10/31/07 06:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, The Beatles definitely have a huge variety of styles of music. And they were pretty innovative with their acid records. They pretty much made the sound for psychedelia.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7579558 - 10/31/07 06:45 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Actually I feel the Beatles did something in music that won't be done for a while: Change the way music was written. Before the Beatles there were CONCEPTS in music that were never realized before, much like Mozart.

Here is an example from this profound website about the Beatles'music: (About Sgt Pepper) Harmonically, the song is heavily based upon one of the archetypal Beatles' chord progression; the I -» V-of-V -» IV -» I one first heard back in "Eight Days A Week". The hallmark of this progression is the combined chromatic cross-relation and psychological feeling of deferred gratification created by following V-of-V (with its C#) by IV (with its C-natural). I strongly suspect that this chord progression is the original property of Lennon and McCartney though in terms of pure scholarship I unfortunately cannot vouch for it 100%. I'll tell you this, though: if anyone out there can point me to an example of this progression appearing in a pop song prior to the Beatles, you can call or e-mail me just about any time of the day or night.:

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/splhcb.shtml


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7580256 - 10/31/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

won't argue that the VU were more influential, The Beatles have that tied up nicely, but I do find them more inspiring musically


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7580707 - 10/31/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'd put the DOORS right up there with the Beatles as far as being the most influential on modern stuff


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7580855 - 10/31/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly, I think a lot more stuff these days can be traced back to the Rolling Stones than to the Beatles.


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7580931 - 10/31/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The Beatles influence extended as far into politics

Er, I'll articulate my thoughts later, that's not really convincing

Why would put The Doors on par with the Beatles?


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7580973 - 10/31/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Honestly, I think a lot more stuff these days can be traced back to the Rolling Stones than to the Beatles.




I once heard an argument that every band since the 70's has been able to be lumped as either a "Rolling Stones" band or a "Beatles" band, meaning, respectively, that they paid more attention to either live performance (RS) or recording (beatles).

Just sayin', I don't really follow that theory.

But as a musician, I do find it somewhat challenging to believe that the beatles "invented" the I-VofV-V progression. :shrug:


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7581119 - 10/31/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Good thing jazz and blues were more influential and better than it all.
Otherwise I'd have to listen to even more of that lame ass pop-ish shit that the Beatles started.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7581148 - 10/31/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

One thing I'll say about the Beatles: They seem to prove that acid makes you a better musician.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7581312 - 10/31/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
One thing I'll say about the Beatles: They seem to prove that acid makes you a better musician.




I think most rock bands proved that HEROIN makes you ever better :P heh

That probably reinforced jewunit's theory too :P


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7581346 - 10/31/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I want to see a rockband on ecstasy or pharmeceuticals and see how that works out


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7581404 - 10/31/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The Beatles would have been so fucking insignificant if it weren't for their early shit. Imagine if they were a Pepper's group throughout their whole career. They never would have had even close to the amount of popularity they did.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7581433 - 10/31/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hyper_Panda_GO said:
I want to see a rockband on ecstasy or pharmeceuticals and see how that works out




Dear god.... I couldn't even DJ back when I was on acid in the day.... I don't know how the fuck the Chili Peppers did it on their first outing playing real instruments.... maybe their first concert sucked

Then again.. there was Santana who played fucking high as shit on DMT at Woodstock... some ppl just have it.. some dont. I sure as hell don't.

I can see how ppl could play on coke, heroin, etc.. cuz it just gives you a buzz (more or less)

But to be able to play an instrument on some serious psychedelics... If anyone can do it.. it amazes me... On E I'd imagine you'd just pluck your guitar strings and it would sound like God to you, but it would just sound like some drooling etard idiot to someone in the audience.


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Offlinedismantled02
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: lukeboots]
    #7581486 - 10/31/07 04:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The Rolling Stones are one of the oldest bands around nowadays but I don't think they compete with the Beatles musicial excellency. The Beatles used to practice for 8 hours straight and still play shows.
What I find interesting is that the Beatles stopped touring after a while giving them more time to work on albums in the studio.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7581502 - 10/31/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dismantled02 said:
The Rolling Stones are one of the oldest bands around nowadays but I don't think they compete with the Beatles musicial excellency. The Beatles used to practice for 8 hours straight and still play shows.
What I find interesting is that the Beatles stopped touring after a while giving them more time to work on albums in the studio.




What the fuck do either of those have to do with musical excellency?


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Offlinedismantled02
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7581517 - 10/31/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It means in the short time that the Beatles were together, they showed more musicial knowledge than the Rolling Stones did in their 40 years of existence.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7581526 - 10/31/07 04:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Because they could hold long practice sessions then play a show, or because they didn't tour often and instead spent all their time in the studio?

What you said really has nothing to do with musical excellency. If the point you were trying to get across was that the Beatles output was greater in a shorter period of time, that's all you had to say.


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Offlinedismantled02
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7581530 - 10/31/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
One thing I'll say about the Beatles: They seem to prove that acid makes you a better musician.




John Lennon actually said after his habitual and thorough experiments with acid, in the end you don't need it to make good music.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7583106 - 11/01/07 07:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Because they could hold long practice sessions then play a show, or because they didn't tour often and instead spent all their time in the studio?

What you said really has nothing to do with musical excellency. If the point you were trying to get across was that the Beatles output was greater in a shorter period of time, that's all you had to say.




awww tisk tisk jew unit. Here ya go talking about something that's so subjective when you went off about how you hate talking about this kinda topic with hip hop :P

I curse your first born to a life of performcing in boy bands!


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7583125 - 11/01/07 07:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck it all. I say the Ramones were more influential than anyone mentioned here.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7583746 - 11/01/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not arguing whether they were better or not.
I was merely stating that what he said has nothing to do with musical excellence.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7583829 - 11/01/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

True.

Musical excellence can be pretty subjective though; a combination of technical skill... and creativity....

If we're *just* talkin' rock bands, though... I'd say Zepplin and Radiohead had WAY more "musical excellence" than the Beatles, but that's just me. It's really hard to judge stuff from 50 years ago by today's standards


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7584026 - 11/01/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I just love the contrast.

Before acid:


After:


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7584043 - 11/01/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hah, when you actually put that side by side it's hilarious


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7584066 - 11/01/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I like the picture of the first one itself better.
I also find it funny how people in the psychedelic community grab on to the Beatles like they're gods. Why not give more attention to the people who were responsible for getting the Beatles into that type of shit?


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OfflinePinballWizard
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: dismantled02]
    #7584073 - 11/01/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Everything the Rolling Stones did in the sixties was pretty much just a copy of what the Beatles were doing at the time. Plus they all pretty much sucked at their instruments until the late sixties (Jagger/Richards still cannot sing.) If you watch the Sullivan Beatles' performances, they are pretty much spot on.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7584078 - 11/01/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Actually I feel the Beatles did something in music that won't be done for a while: Change the way music was written. Before the Beatles there were CONCEPTS in music that were never realized before, much like Mozart.

Here is an example from this profound website about the Beatles'music: (About Sgt Pepper) Harmonically, the song is heavily based upon one of the archetypal Beatles' chord progression; the I -» V-of-V -» IV -» I one first heard back in "Eight Days A Week". The hallmark of this progression is the combined chromatic cross-relation and psychological feeling of deferred gratification created by following V-of-V (with its C#) by IV (with its C-natural). I strongly suspect that this chord progression is the original property of Lennon and McCartney though in terms of pure scholarship I unfortunately cannot vouch for it 100%. I'll tell you this, though: if anyone out there can point me to an example of this progression appearing in a pop song prior to the Beatles, you can call or e-mail me just about any time of the day or night.:

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/splhcb.shtml




I think your post went over pretty much everyones head :thumbup:


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OfflinePinballWizard
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7584109 - 11/01/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Lennon said that he was reading a review of Revolver, and the critic said that the main riff on "And Your Bird can Sing" was a wonderful ascending Aeolian scale. Lennon thought it was some kind of bird or something.

I recommend everyone here watch the Anthologies.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584137 - 11/01/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Personally I like the picture of the first one itself better.
I also find it funny how people in the psychedelic community grab on to the Beatles like they're gods. Why not give more attention to the people who were responsible for getting the Beatles into that type of shit?




Y'mean Bob Dylan?


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584152 - 11/01/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
The Beatles would have been so fucking insignificant if it weren't for their early shit. Imagine if they were a Pepper's group throughout their whole career. They never would have had even close to the amount of popularity they did.




Being less popular is not the same as being insignificant. They gained the world's attention with their early stuff, which gave them a platform to experiment, but it's not like they had nothing to say. Thank god they started with poppy teeny bopper shit, or we would have missed out on some of the greatest music ever made, due to the judgmental nature of human beings.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584164 - 11/01/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
I also find it funny how people in the psychedelic community grab on to the Beatles like they're gods. Why not give more attention to the people who were responsible for getting the Beatles into that type of shit?




And who's that?

People like the Beatles because they are very good. What's wrong with that?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Silversoul]
    #7584171 - 11/01/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My favorite album cover is Rubber Soul, where there's just a hint of psychedelia, both in the songs and on the cover.




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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7584240 - 11/01/07 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Then again.. there was Santana who played fucking high as shit on DMT at Woodstock...



Really? I never knew he played on DMT....


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Thin White Duke]
    #7584433 - 11/01/07 03:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phumfeinz said:
Quote:

jewunit said:
Personally I like the picture of the first one itself better.
I also find it funny how people in the psychedelic community grab on to the Beatles like they're gods. Why not give more attention to the people who were responsible for getting the Beatles into that type of shit?




Y'mean Bob Dylan?




Yeah, that was the subliminal message there.

Whiskey: The only reason the Beatles are so significant is because of their influence. They changed the way pop music was played. I think many people, especially in the drug/psychedelic culture, think it's because of their influence on that particular culture and form of music. While this influence is large, that's not why Rolling Stone and other such glossy magazines think they are the greatest band ever. If it wasn't for their poppy stuff, that I find fairly unappealing, they never would have been anything. You're right, we would have most likely missed out on some good stuff, but who knows where music would be today.

That's the problem with the way people look at bands that are influential. Just because a band was influential does not mean they were good. People automatically assume that because they changed music they made music better. Personally I think music would be in a far better situation today if the Beatles never existed, or at least didn't ever play shit like I Want To Hold Your Hand.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584488 - 11/01/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think many people, especially in the drug/psychedelic culture, think it's because of their influence on that particular culture and form of music.

That's the problem with the way people look at bands that are influential. Just because a band was influential does not mean they were good.




I don't care how influential they are. I don't care how they changed the direction of music. Their music is awesome, regardless of what other bands did before and after.

Quote:

The only reason the Beatles are so significant is because of their influence.




I think you are mistaken.

Where does influence come from? Marketing is a part of it, but good business cannot keep ANY band on top of the musical world through twelve albums and beyond. It was their skill at the craft of music. That may still be lost on you; I myself had no appreciation for what they accomplished until fairly recently.

They were an extremely talented, hardworking band. As a songwriter, I find their ability to write so many excellent melodies absolutely magical. Nobody has delivered such a volume of top-notch material. If you know of an act that has, please let me know who they are.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7584523 - 11/01/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The reason they were at the top when they were around was, obviously, because of their music mainly. They did have a ridiculous amount of number one hits. I listen to those hits and I am purely disgusted. (Okay, that's an exaggeration.) To think how they were marketed didn't have an effect on that is ridiculous, but you're right that really isn't the reason they were huge. They would not be nearly as popular still today if they didn't change the face of music. I don't see how that can be denied.

Obviously I can name tons of artists and bands that I think have delivered more top notch material, since I think I've made it pretty clear that I think the Beatles are one of the most overrated groups ever. That said, however, I don't want people to think I don't like them. I do. I could just live without pretty much every number one hit they ever had. The stuff that is the base for their popularity is the exact stuff of theirs that I LOATHE.

If you don't think the reason the Beatles are significant is because of their influence, then start listening to doowop, and tell me what happened to that genre of music once the Beatles came around. Or read the articles that proclaim them the best band ever, and see what they say. Or just listen to the development of rock throughout history. Their impact is undeniable, and when a band has such a huge influence, then they will be infinitely significant. There's no denying it.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584525 - 11/01/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Damnit, I used some variation on "That's undeniable" twice in that post. What bad rhetoric skillz.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584557 - 11/01/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

One of my buddies' dad's used to be a sound engineer for the WB. I don't know how but he managed to come across an old school video tape from way back in the day

It's a video of John Lenon (pre-drugs and looking all proper like in that first album cover) in the backseat of a limo with Bob Dylan. Dylan was FUCKED UP out of his mind and rambling half incoherently at Lenon and Lenon's trying to respond to him, but half the time he just has this "WTF are you babbling about?" look on his face.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7584752 - 11/01/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)





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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584772 - 11/01/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Personally I like the picture of the first one itself better.
I also find it funny how people in the psychedelic community grab on to the Beatles like they're gods. Why not give more attention to the people who were responsible for getting the Beatles into that type of shit?





Let me tell you what happened: I had a dentist who invited me and John and our ex-wives to dinner, and he had this acid he’d got off the guy who ran Playboy in London. And the Playboy guy had gotten it off, you know, the people who had it in America. What’s his name, Tim Leary. And this guy had never had it himself, didn’t know anything about it, but he thought it was an aphrodisiac and he had this girlfriend with huge breasts. He invited us down there with our blonde wives and I think he thought he was gonna have a scene. And he put it in our coffee without telling us—he didn’t take any himself. We didn’t know we had it, and we’d made an arrangement earlier—after we had dinner we were gonna go to this nightclub to see some friends of ours who were playing in a band. And I was saying, "OK, let’s go, we’ve got to go," and this guy kept saying, "No, don’t go, finish your coffee. Then, 20 minutes later or something, I’m saying, "C’mon John, we’d better go now. We’re gonna miss the show." And he says we shouldn’t go ’cause we’ve had LSD. I’d heard about LSD, but it was before all the panic, everybody saying heaven and hell and all this stuff. So, fortunately, I didn’t care. And I could sense there was something weird going on. Then he said, "Well, OK then, we’ll come with you—I’ll drive you there, leave your car here." And I said, "No, no wait a minute. I’m taking my car." We went and he followed.

So we got to this place and we just sat down and I think ordered a drink and then suddenly something happened. I just got this overwhelming feeling, I couldn’t put my finger on why it was happening, but it was just like I was so in love with everything. I just felt so great I wanted to hug everybody and tell ’em how much I loved them. And then suddenly the room started moving a bit and stuff like that, and the next thing I remember it was like World War III was happening. Bombs were dropping, all kinds of things, and I finally gathered my senses together and realized the club had closed. They’d put all the lights on and the waiters were going around putting all the chairs on top of the tables and sweeping the floors. We somehow got out of there and walked to this next club—the Ad Lib Club—it just went on forever. So John and I had it together. We’d heard of it, but we never knew what it was about and it was put in our coffee maliciously. So it really wasn’t us turning each other or the world or anything—we were the victims of silly people.


- George Harrison


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7584788 - 11/01/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Sure, but what I am trying to say is that the reason they were so influential is the sheer quality of their music. It was so damn good, everybody liked it.

Quote:

They would not be nearly as popular still today if they didn't change the face of music. I don't see how that can be denied.




I am not denying that. Their influence is unquestionable, but I contend that their influence is the result of their music and little else.

As for the number one hits, they are not the ones that are so beloved to me. Obviously you are not a Beatles fan. You probably aren't familiar with Things We Said Today or I'm Only Sleeping or Michelle, and it's the obscure songs (and I reiterate, the sheer number of good ones) that convince me nobody has come close to their songwriting prowess since.

If you can listen to a song like She Said She Said without hearing anything special in it then okay, I would not expect you to understand why the Beatles are regarded in the way they are.

Quote:

I think I've made it pretty clear that I think the Beatles are one of the most overrated groups ever.




Calling a band overrated is just a cheap shot. No artist can live up to the amount of praise and reverence that is heaped on bands like the Beatles. This is the way all products are marketed: with great hyperbole. Watch any commercial; every product is the perfect answer to life's problems, the greatest show on earth, the last whatever you'll ever need. Never is any fault or weakness mentioned or suggested. Add to this the average person's tendency to overstate just about everything, and of course they are overrated. It says nothing about their musical abilty.

Radiohead is overrated. Led Zeppelin is overrated. Pink Floyd is overrated. The one thing they all have in common? They are all fucking fantastic, groundbreaking bands.

I think we should take the word overrated and toss it from the dictionary. It's an easy way of diminishing anything. It's almost become a sport, slapping that overrated label on anything just to cut it down.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7584949 - 11/01/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You couldn't be more right in that post.

I'm basically saying I, personally, don't think they are that amazing. That said, what I've heard of there's is obviously limited. The Beatles that people on this board know, love, and praise, are not the main Beatles that the general public knows, loves, and praises. Maybe they were in their day, maybe they weren't, it's not my place to say, I'm only 19. It just bothers me that so many people are so willing to call them the greatest band ever based on their influence (and I truly believe that's why people give them that title.)


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: jewunit]
    #7585011 - 11/01/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
You couldn't be more right in that post.

I'm basically saying I, personally, don't think they are that amazing. That said, what I've heard of there's is obviously limited. The Beatles that people on this board know, love, and praise, are not the main Beatles that the general public knows, loves, and praises. Maybe they were in their day, maybe they weren't, it's not my place to say, I'm only 19. It just bothers me that so many people are so willing to call them the greatest band ever based on their influence (and I truly believe that's why people give them that title.)




:smile:

I would have said the same things a few years ago.  I too had the "general public's" relationship with their music.  To me they were teeny bopper stuff for a while, then psychedelic music for a while, then they had a fit and broke up.  Lots of catchy, cute little songs, with the occasional oddball drug song.

What changed my image of them was listening to their albums, in chronological order.  I began to see how a band's music could bloom so beautifully and organically.  I could almost perceive the events in their lives that precipitated this evolution.  At the time I did this, I began experiencing my own personal transformation, (largely catalyzed by psychedelic use) and the Beatles provided the perfect soundtrack.  Those songs are now so dear to me I cannot identify with my old perception of the Beatles.

I finally saw why people exalt them like they do; and I realized that before that, I didn't have a clue.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7585019 - 11/01/07 05:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

jewunit said:
You couldn't be more right in that post.

I'm basically saying I, personally, don't think they are that amazing. That said, what I've heard of there's is obviously limited. The Beatles that people on this board know, love, and praise, are not the main Beatles that the general public knows, loves, and praises. Maybe they were in their day, maybe they weren't, it's not my place to say, I'm only 19. It just bothers me that so many people are so willing to call them the greatest band ever based on their influence (and I truly believe that's why people give them that title.)




:smile:

I would have said the same things a few years ago.  I too had the "general public's" relationship with their music.  To me they were teeny bopper stuff for a while, then psychedelic music for a while, then they had a fit and broke up.  Lots of catchy, cute little songs, with the occasional oddball drug song.

What changed my image of them was listening to their albums, in chronological order.  I began to see how a band's music could bloom so beautifully and organically.  I could almost perceive the events in their lives that precipitated this evolution.  At the time I did this, I began experiencing my own personal transformation, (largely catalyzed by psychedelic use) and the Beatles provided the perfect soundtrack.  Those songs are now so dear to me I cannot identify with my old perception of the Beatles.

I finally saw why people exalt them like they do; and I realized that before that, I didn't have a clue.




That's pretty much how it is for me.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7586332 - 11/02/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, obviously I can't knock it if I haven't tried it, but I just don't think that makes them good. To me, at least, hearing a bands progression, no matter how beautiful it is and how well it synchs with my life, isn't going to make me appreciate them (well, I suppose if it fit with me on a personal level I would definitely appreciate and like it more.) I can, however, respect why you like them and I'm not trying to trash that in any way, and you know that.


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Re: The Beatles: The true rock inspiration? [Re: Thin White Duke]
    #7586831 - 11/02/07 08:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phumfeinz said:






"I think I'm gonna turn you into Ron Coleman".

Man.. either I'm not as DOWN with the HIP LINGO of 1960, or Dylan is blazed outta his mind.


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