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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: bort]
    #7572918 - 10/29/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Manson vs. Geraldo....


Who is the crazier SOB in that room?
<img src="
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Manson: "You've got a little babby lying there and you tell him 'Come on baby light my fire' and then what happens? the babby starts lighting your fires!" Genius!

(paraphrased cuz I forget exactly what he said)


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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: Artnotwar]
    #7572922 - 10/29/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)
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"Describe who you are in one sentence" is something nobody should be asked to do. But being that the interviewer asked Manson the question and got 'nobody' as an answer makes the situation a bit ironic. I admire his response.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: elbisivni]
    #7572985 - 10/29/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i just starting watching some Charles Manson interviews and I like Manson, he's very lucid


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7572999 - 10/29/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
i just starting watching some Charles Manson interviews and I like Manson, he's very lucid


:what:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: johnm214]
    #7573049 - 10/29/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7573060 - 10/29/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)
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the district attorney is selling your blood.


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OfflineArtnotwar
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7573911 - 10/29/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah i'm going to download shid music. i never knew much about the whole manson family thing, but aparrently manson was waiting for helter skelter to happen, a race war. when he heard The Beatles 'The White Album' he thought that there were coded messages in the music telling manson to make his own music with messages to start helter skelter.
Quote:

Helter Skelter (Manson scenario)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The murders perpetrated by Charles Manson and members of his Family were inspired in part by Manson's prediction of Helter Skelter, an apocalyptic war he believed would arise from tension over racial relations between blacks and whites.[1] This "chimerical vision," as it was termed by the court that heard Manson's appeal from his conviction for the Tate-LaBianca killings,[2] involved reference to music of The Beatles and to the New Testament's Book of Revelation.[3]

Manson had been predicting racial war for some time before he used the term Helter Skelter.[4][5] His first use of the term was at a gathering of the Family on New Year's Eve 1968. This took place at the Family's base at Myers Ranch, near California's Death Valley.[6][7]

In its final form, which was reached by mid-February 1969,[8] the scenario had Manson as not only the war's ultimate beneficiary but its musical cause. He and the Family would create an album with songs whose messages concerning the war would be as subtle as those he had heard in songs of The Beatles.[9][10][11] More than merely foretell the conflict, this would trigger it; for, in instructing "the young love,"[12] America's white youth, to join the Family, it would draw the young, white female hippies out of San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury.[13][14][15] Black men, thus deprived of the white women whom the political changes of the 1960s had made sexually available to them, would be without an outlet for their frustrations and would lash out in violent crimes against whites.[16][17] After a resultant murderous rampage against blacks by frightened whites would be exploited by the Black Muslims to provoke a war of mutual near-extermination between racist and non-racist whites over the treatment of blacks, the Black Muslims would arise to finish off sneakily the few whites they would know to have survived; indeed, they would kill off all nonblacks.[18][19]

In this holocaust, the members of the enlarged Family would have little to fear; they would wait out the war in a secret city that was underneath Death Valley and that they would reach through a hole in the ground. As the actual remaining whites upon the war's true conclusion, they would emerge from underground to rule the now-satisfied blacks, who, as the vision went, would be incapable of running the world; Manson "would scratch [the black man's] fuzzy head and kick him in the butt and tell him to go pick the cotton and go be a good nigger."[20][21]

The term Helter Skelter was from the so-named Beatles song, which Manson interpreted as concerned with the war.[22] The song was on the so-called White Album (formal name, The Beatles), first heard by Manson within a month or so of its November 1968 release.[23] For Manson, almost every song on that album had a meaning connected with the events he and, in his view, The Beatles were foreseeing. Because the meanings were coded, Manson had to lay them out for his followers.[24]

As is detailed below, White Album songs specifically known to have been connected with the prophecy are:

I Will
Honey Pie
Glass Onion
Don't Pass Me By
Yer Blues
Sexy Sadie
Rocky Raccoon
Happiness Is a Warm Gun
Blackbird
Helter Skelter
Piggies
Revolution 1
Revolution 9
Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey (connected to the prophecy by Family member Charles "Tex" Watson, not necessarily Manson)
Beatle songs that are not on The White Album but are also known to have a connection to Helter Skelter are "Blue Jay Way," "Fool on the Hill," and "Yellow Submarine."

In the months before the murders were conceived, Manson and his followers began preparing for Helter Skelter, which they thought inevitable. In addition to working on songs for the hoped-for album, which would set off everything, they prepared vehicles and other items for their escape from the Los Angeles area (their home territory) to Death Valley when the days of violence would arrive. They pored over maps to plot a route that would bypass highways and get them to the desert safely. Indeed, Manson was convinced that "Helter Skelter," the song, contained a coded statement of the route they should follow.[25][26][27]

Manson had said the war would start in the summer of 1969.[28] In late June of that year, months after he'd been frustrated in his efforts to get the album made,[29] he told a male Family member that Helter Skelter was "ready to happen."[30] "lackie never did anything without whitey showin’ him how," he said. "t looks like we’re gonna have to show blackie how to do it."[31]

Main article: Tate-LaBianca murders
On August 8, 1969, the day Manson instructed his followers to carry out the first of two sets of notorious murders, he told the Family, "Now is the time for Helter Skelter."[32] When the murderers returned to Spahn Ranch, the Family's Los Angeles area headquarters, after the crime, Manson asked Tex Watson, the sole man among them, whether it had been Helter Skelter. "Yeah, it was sure Helter Skelter," Watson replied.[33]

At the conclusion of the second set of murders, the following night (August 9-10), one of the killers wrote "HeaLter [sic] Skelter" on the refrigerator of the house in which the murders took place. That, along with other references to Beatles songs, was written in blood.[34]


[edit] References to the Beatles and the Book of Revelation
When The Beatles first came to the United States, in February 1964, Charles Manson was an inmate in the United States Penitentiary at McNeil Island, where he was serving a sentence for attempting to cash a forged U.S. Treasury check;[35] he was twenty-nine years old.[36] His fellow inmates found his interest in the group "almost an obsession." Taught by inmate Alvin Karpis to play the guitar, Manson told many persons that "given the chance, he could be much bigger than the Beatles."[37][38]

To the Family, a few years later, Manson spoke of The Beatles as "the soul" and "part of 'the hole in the infinite.'"[39] When he delivered the Helter Skelter prophecy around the campfire at Myers Ranch, the Family members believed it:

[A]t that point Charlie’s credibility seemed indisputable. For weeks he had been talking of revolution, prophesying it. We had listened to him rap; we were geared for it – making music to program the young love. Then, from across the Atlantic, the hottest music group in the world substantiates Charlie with an album which is almost blood-curdling in its depiction of violence. It was uncanny.[40]
In My Life with Charles Manson, Paul Watkins wrote that Manson "spent hours quoting and interpreting Revelation to the Family, particularly verses from chapter 9."[41] In an autobiography written with assistance some years after the murders, Tex Watson said that, apart from Chapter 9 of the Book of Revelation, the Bible had "absolutely no meaning in our life in the Family."[42] (Even so, Watson stated that "we... knew that Charlie was Jesus Christ.")[43]

For a period in his childhood, Manson lived with an aunt and uncle, while his mother was in prison. He later told a counselor that the aunt and uncle had "some marital difficulty until they became interested in religion and became very extreme."[44]


[edit] Beatle lyrics, as interpreted by Manson
I Will
Lyric: And when at last I find you/ Your song will fill the air/ Sing it loud so I can hear you/ Make it easy to be near you
Meaning: The Beatles are looking for Jesus Christ, who is Manson[45]
Honey Pie
Lyric: Oh, honey pie, my position is tragic/ Come and show me the magic/ Of your Hollywood song
Meaning: The Beatles know Jesus Christ has returned to Earth and is in Los Angeles[46] They want Manson to create his "song," that is, his album that will set off Helter Skelter.[47]

Lyric: Oh, honey pie, you are driving me frantic/ Sail across the Atlantic/ To be where you belong
Meaning: The Beatles want Jesus Christ to come to England[48]
(Consequence: In early 1969, Manson and his female followers attempt to contact the Beatles by letter, telegram, and telephone; they are struggling to make clear to the Beatles that it is they, the Beatles, who are to come across the Atlantic, to join the family in Death Valley.)[49]

Lyric: I'm in love, but I'm lazy
Meaning: The Beatles love Jesus Christ but are too lazy to go looking for him[50]
Glass Onion
Lyric: I told you 'bout the fool on the hill/ I tell you, man, he's living there still
Meaning: The reason the Beatles are too lazy to go looking for Jesus Christ is that they have exhausted themselves in a pilgrimage to India, where they have concluded the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is a false prophet.[51][52]
This connects the prophecy with a song from outside The White Album. "The Fool on the Hill," construed by Manson as a reference to the Maharishi,[53] is, at the very least, the Beatles' reference to an earlier song of theirs of that title. The song appeared on Magical Mystery Tour, the 1967 album that preceded The White Album and that had influenced Manson itself. The Family had come to call its roundabout journey from its place of origin, San Francisco, to its place of settlement, the Los Angeles area, the "Magical Mystery Tour."[54]
Don't Pass Me By
Lyric: I Listen for your footsteps coming up the drive/ Listen for your footsteps, but they don't arrive/ Waiting for your knock dear on my old front door/ I don't hear it; does it mean you don't love me any more?/ I Hear the clock a-ticking on the mantle shelf/ See the hands a-moving, but I'm by myself/ I wonder where you are tonight and why I'm by myself/ I don't see you; does it mean you don't love me any more?
Meaning: The Beatles are calling for Jesus Christ, who is Manson[55]
Yer Blues
Lyric: Yes, I'm lonely; wanna die/ Yes, I'm lonely; wanna die/ If I ain't dead already/ Girl, you know the reason why)[56]
Meaning: The Beatles are calling for Jesus Christ, who is Manson
Blue Jay Way
Lyric: There's a fog upon L.A./ And my friends have lost their way/ They'll be over soon they said/ Now they've lost themselves instead/ Please don't be long/ Please don't you be very long/ Or I may be asleep.
Meaning: The Beatles are calling for Jesus Christ, who is Manson[57] This song, too, draws Magical Mystery Tour into the prophecy; that is the album on which it appears.

The primary sources of information on Helter Skelter do not detail Manson's interpretation of the lyrics of this song. If the "friends" are imagined to be the Beatles, looking for Manson in Los Angeles, the lyrics retain their ordinary sense, in which someone is trying to get to a place in L.A., not out of it. If, on the other hand, the "friends" are the Family, who, because of the "fog upon L.A.," have "lost their way" to the Beatles in England, the interpretation would seem to be consistent with Manson's view that the lyrics are a call to him ("Please don't you be very long") and that the Beatles want him to "sail across the Atlantic." (See Honey Pie, above.)
"Blue Jay Way" is the name of an actual Los Angeles street; the primary sources of information about Helter Skelter do not indicate whether Manson knew that. George Harrison was staying at a house on that street when he wrote the song.[58]
Sexy Sadie
Significance: Manson had renamed Family member Susan Atkins "Sadie Mae Glutz" long before the release of The White Album. The mental connection between Manson and The Beatles is obvious.[59]
In San Francisco, where she met Manson, Atkins had been a topless dancer.[60] Paul Watkins wrote that Atkins "thrived on sex," and he even seemed to suggest she had the nickname Sexy Sadie before the Family heard the song.[61] Similarly, Tex Watson wrote that the words of "Sexy Sadie" fit Atkins so well "that it made us all sure [the Beatles] had to be singing directly to us." Watson specifically noted that the song's title character "came along to turn on everyone," "broke the rules," and "laid it down for all to see." Atkins, he said, "had broken all the rules, sexually, and liked to talk about her experience and lack of inhibitions."[62]
Rocky Raccoon
Significance: Rocky Raccoon means "coon," vulgar term for a black man[63]
Of all the Beatles songs known to have been connected with Helter Skelter, this is the only one that mentions the Bible. (It is possibly the only Beatles song at all that mentions the Bible.) A play on the Gideons International practice of leaving Bibles in hotel rooms, the references are to a Bible left in the room of the title character by a "Gideon":
So one day [Rocky Raccoon] walked into town/ Booked himself a room in the local saloon/ Rocky Raccoon/ Checked into his room/ Only to find Gideon's Bible... Now Rocky Raccoon/ He fell back in his room/ Only to find Gideon's Bible/ Gideon checked out/ And he left it no doubt/ To help with good Rocky's revival.
Manson made the connection. In the period before his trial, he was visited at the Los Angeles County Jail by David Dalton and David Felton, who were preparing a Rolling Stone story, about him, that appeared in the magazine in June 1970. In an article in the October 1998 issue of the periodical Gadfly, Dalton, recounting the visit to Manson, relayed the remarks Manson made to Felton and him about "Rocky Raccoon":
"Coon," said Charlie. "You know that's a word they use for black people. You know the line, 'Gideon checked out/ And left no doubt/ To help good Rocky's revival.' Rocky's revival -- re-vival. It means coming back to life. The black man is going to come into power again. 'Gideon checks out' means that it's all written out there in the New Testament, in the Book of Revelations [sic]."[64]
Happiness Is a Warm Gun
Significance: The Beatles are telling blacks to get guns and fight whites
Sample lyric: When I hold you in my arms/ And I feel my finger on your trigger/ I know no one can do me no harm/ Because happiness is a warm gun/ (Bang bang, shoot shoot)[65]
While in the Death Valley area after the New Year's Eve gathering at which Manson announced Helter Skelter, the Family played over and over The White Album's five following songs:[66]

Blackbird
Lyric: Blackbird singing in the dead of night/ Take these broken wings and learn to fly/ All your life/ You were only waiting for this moment to arise.
Meaning: The black man is going to arise and overthrow the white man. The Beatles are programming blacks to rise.[67]
Helter Skelter
Lyric: When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide/ Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Significance: A reference to the Family's emergence from "the Bottomless Pit," the underground Death Valley hideaway where the group will escape the violence of Helter Skelter[68]
Note: In British English, helter-skelter not only has its meanings of "confused" or "confusedly" but is the name of an amusement park slide,[69] which this portion of the lyrics suggests is one of the term's surface denotations in the song. There is nothing to indicate Manson was aware of this meaning.

Lyric: Look out... Helter Skelter... She's coming down fast... Yes she is.
Meaning:The upcoming explosion of race-based violence is imminent. These are the "last few months, weeks, perhaps days, of the old order."[70]
Note: Even to someone unaware that helter-skelter is the name of a slide, the song's mention of a slide might have indicated that the "she" in this part of the lyrics is someone who, literally or otherwise, is riding on a slide and "coming down fast" -- helter-skelter. In My Life with Charles Manson, Paul Watkins makes clear Manson construed "she" as a reference to the words "helter skelter" themselves. It is Helter Skelter -- which, in America, at least, can be the noun "confusion"[71] -- that is coming down fast, i.e., is imminent.[72]

Manson also hears the Beatles whispering to him to call them in London.[73] (See Honey Pie, above.)
Piggies
Lyric: What they need's a damned good whacking
Significance: Blacks are going to give "the piggies" -- i.e., the establishment -- a damned good whacking[74] This phrase Manson particularly liked.[75]

Piggies also contains the following: Everywhere there's lots of piggies/ Living piggy lives/ You can see them out for dinner/ With their piggy wives/ Clutching forks and knives/ To eat their bacon. In Helter Skelter -- The True Story of the Manson Murders, which he wrote with Curt Gentry, Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Manson and the others accused of the Tate-LaBianca murders, draws attention to this. He notes that Leno LaBianca was left with a knife in his throat and a fork in his stomach. (Bugliosi has to make the point somewhat indirectly. George Harrison, who wrote the song, refused the authors permission to quote the lyrics.)[76]
Revolution 1
Lyric: You say you want a revolution/ Well you know/ We all want to change the world.../ But when you talk about destruction/ Don't you know that you can count me out (in)
Significance: The singing of "in" after the word "out," even though "in" doesn't appear in the lyrics as they were presented on the printed sheet enclosed with the album, indicates that the Beatles had been undecided but now favor revolution[77] Though they are no longer on a "peace-and-love trip," they can't admit as much to the establishment.[78]

Lyric: You say you got a real solution/ Well you know/ We'd all love to see the plan
Meaning: The Beatles want Manson to tell them how to escape the horrors of Helter Skelter[79] They are ready for the violence; they want Manson to create his album that will tell them what to do. Its songs will be "the plan," whose subtle messages will be aimed at the various parts of society that will be involved in Helter Skelter.[80][81]
Revolution 9
This is the White Album piece Manson spoke about the most,[82] the one he deemed most significant[83] An audio collage, it has no lyrics.
Significance: Manson hears machine-gun fire, the oinking of pigs, and the word "Rise." The piece is audio representation of the coming conflict; the repeated utterance "Number 9" is reference to Chapter 9 of the Book of Revelation. Revolution 9 is prophecy, paralleling Revelation 9.[84] "Revolution 9" = Revelation 9.[85]
"Rise" is "one of [Manson's] big words"; the black man is going to "rise" up against the white man.[86] While playing "Revolution 9," Manson screams "Rise! Rise! Rise!"[87]

Manson also hears the Beatles whispering: "Charlie, Charlie, send us a telegram."[88] (See Honey Pie, above.)
In his autobiography, Tex Watson tied the prophecy to one more White Album song, Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey, though he changed monkey to monkeys, plural. While on LSD at a party in late March 1969, Watson explained, he and two Manson girls realized they themselves were "the monkeys,... just bright-eyed, free little animals, totally uninhibited." As they started "bouncing around the apartment, throwing food against the walls, and laughing hysterically," they were, in their own view (if not that of the others in attendance), "all love -- spontaneous, childlike love." It would seem Watson took the song's "me and my monkey[s]" to signify Manson and the Family, though he doesn't say it that way; he doesn't indicate whether the interpretation was brought to Manson's attention.[89]

Manson himself invoked, too, "Yellow Submarine", a Beatle song that was released in 1966 and that inspired an animated movie of the same title. The movie was released in November 1968, within a week or so of The White Album. In the first months of 1969, after he had delivered the Helter Skelter prophecy around the New Year's Eve campfire near Death Valley, Manson applied the name "Yellow Submarine" to a canary-yellow, Canoga Park house to which the Family repaired at his instruction. There, as they would prepare for Helter Skelter, they would be "submerged beneath the aw


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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: Charles Manson [Re: Artnotwar]
    #7573927 - 10/29/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

He is one crazy mofo

Still, would probably make for an interesting conversationalist


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