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Offlinewocka
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Big soda bottle tek.
    #7570605 - 10/28/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

im trying to have small descreet grow and i was wondering if i plan on using a 2 litre soda bottle and put about 3" of moist perlite in it for moisture should i keep the bottle totally closed n open it up 2-3 times a day or should i just put holes in the top so it can have air exchange on its own?


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: wocka]
    #7571791 - 10/29/07 03:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perforate the entire surface with holes. You want 3-4 full air exchanges an hour, not 3-4 a day, whenever you get around to it.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572012 - 10/29/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Im doing the same thing

My FAE plan is to cut big holes in the bottle and cover them with tyvek.


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

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Offlinewocka
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572072 - 10/29/07 06:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wait, so i want a bunch of holes in the soda bottle so its airy and then still open it up as much as i can? or do i keep it airtight then fan it out as much as i can, im confused.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: wocka]
    #7572091 - 10/29/07 07:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

you want as much fresh air as posible while still keeping the humidity.


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

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Offlinewocka
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572093 - 10/29/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oh i see, so i can put a bunch of drilled holes around the top of the soda bottle and have my fan on so alot of air is circulating in the room.. the temps usually 79-81.. 83 at the highest. i plan on trying this soon


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: wocka]
    #7572717 - 10/29/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Not around the top. The entire thing. The fan is irrelevant; there won't be *that* much air exchange, and the evaporation from the perlite will move air inside the bottle.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572757 - 10/29/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

im was actialy thinking of building a tyvec tent...


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572760 - 10/29/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

...which will block the air. The soda bottle will work fine.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572770 - 10/29/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No reason for tyvek just make allot of holes everywhere bottom,top,sodes etc


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572772 - 10/29/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I ment a sealed tyvek tent with plastic windows INSTEAD of a soda bottle.. like a mini greenhouse.


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572783 - 10/29/07 12:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thats ok if you want to make it more difficult than it is lol.


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7572796 - 10/29/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I ment a sealed tyvek tent with plastic windows INSTEAD of a soda bottle.. like a mini greenhouse.





only you're talking about making it airtight. Tyvek will let gases slowly interchange. Not quickly enough for your fruiting, by a long shot.

Why do you keep re-asking these questions with no apparent reason? If you're looking for experience, we're telling you it's silly for a number of reasons. Like you've been trying to avoid for 10 posts, a soda bottle, with numerous holes top to bottom, will make a wonderful mini fc.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572806 - 10/29/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ok..

I wan's re-asking the questions, just hashing out ideas.. Im new to this and on my first grow. I have read alot of teks and im just kinda exploring posible options..


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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InvisibleCheezit
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Registered: 10/19/07
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572807 - 10/29/07 12:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A couple holes just above the substrate level does the trick, keep the bottle top loose, or off. It's passive but CO2 settles and displaces air, as it flows out the holes it pulls in fresh air, at an even rate as the Co2 flows out. If you have a small aquarium air pump you can put that into the bottle cap, to create a positive pressure environment. Pushing the Co2 out through the bottom holes.


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7572811 - 10/29/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

passive but CO2 settles and displaces air, as it flows out the holes it pulls in fresh air, at an even rate as the Co2 flows out.




Jesus. A single quote in the Cultivator and people are quoting this forever. If your air is so freaking stale that the CO2 starts to separate out of the mixture, you need to moisten that perlite.


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572840 - 10/29/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

what? dudes growing in a soda bottle....... what does moist perelite have anything to do with anything other then the humidity of the air. Ok maybe to make up for too much air exchange?

I'm not knocking the 100 some holes idea. That idea goes along just as well with the two holes and a aquarium pump.

Familiar with the monotub? five holes and thick flushes, closed air passive tek. But improved with an aquarium pump. Controls the humidity issues by preventing too much FAE.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572855 - 10/29/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What does moistening perlite do towards freshening "stale" air? Don't mix the poor guy up.

For fruiting you need two things

High Relative humidity (RH)

Fresh Air Exchange (FAE)

In a setup made of a container with wet perlite in the bottom, be it a shotgun box or a soda bottle or whatever, we have one problem. It takes time for perlite to raise the RH of the air around it and if we remove the air too fast (lots of FAE) then the RH never gets up to the levels it has to be at.

So you have to find the balance between the RH (amount of perlite) and FAE (holes in the bottle) so that your FAE is the highest possible without it making your RH go below 95 %


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572870 - 10/29/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CaptainLinger said:
Quote:

passive but CO2 settles and displaces air, as it flows out the holes it pulls in fresh air, at an even rate as the Co2 flows out.




Jesus. A single quote in the Cultivator and people are quoting this forever.




as it should be


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Nibin]
    #7572872 - 10/29/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Water suspended on Perlite evaporates. With holes it will force fresh, moist air up and through the entire container. It's the same concept involved in the shotgun method you mention.


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572875 - 10/29/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

as it should be





Apparently not, as particularly here your statement makes no sense. CO2 will not "drop out the bottom" of a container with evaporation circulating the air; the CO2 will stay in suspension just like it does in our atmosphere.


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572879 - 10/29/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So is the container on a heating pad?  :strokebeard:


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7572906 - 10/29/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ok so how would one keep the RH high and the FAE good. im getting mixed messages here.

how about the ari pump going to the bottom of the bottle (under the perlite), leaving the cap off, and not poking holes?


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572916 - 10/29/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

See we are working different points of view, using different forces to do the same thing.


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7572961 - 10/29/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Jesus, Cheezit doesn't even understand his own argument.

Slimz: use a 2-liter. Poke holes in all of it; even if Cheez was making sense, this method would work for what we're both saying...he just cuts out a necessary part. Put adequate perlite under your cakes, mist every once in a while, and forget.


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572963 - 10/29/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If you want my point of view, I would place the tube from the pump in the top. Put a few holes at the bottom. The air will flow downwards and out the bottom holes. You control the flow of gas. The mushroom creates Co2, you wash the co2 away out the bottom, as the fresh air flows down from the top. The air mixes a bit, but gently kinda rolls around. It mixes the air and dilutes the elevated level of unwanted gas.
100 ways to achieve.


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572967 - 10/29/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

treat me like a noob i love it


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7572974 - 10/29/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:sheeplove::sheeplove::sheeplove::sheeplove::sheeplove::sheeplove:

Why are you bothering with this? 20 cents of perlite and a 1-dollar 2 liter. Some holes. Done. CO2 doesn't "wash down" in an air mixture or your illiterate terra firma-dwelling ass would be dead.

Sorry. If you're going to invite abuse, I'm not one to turn that down :smile: Cheers.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572991 - 10/29/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

WAIT... im not worried about co2 at this point.. its the humidity.
with all those holes, would not the humidity be an issue?


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Slimz]
    #7572997 - 10/29/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Not really. You need to maintain your perlite by keeping it moist, but a blanket of the stuff in a pseudo-shell like the 2 liter we're using will maintain nearly 99% RH while still exchanging air. The idea is to continue air exchanges while making sure the fresh air is humid.


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Offlinewocka
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7573809 - 10/29/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

so...

what is better,

having too much FAE and loosing moisture

or

too little FAE ang high moisture?


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: wocka]
    #7573882 - 10/29/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It shouldn't have to be a tradeoff; you can achieve the proper 3-4 exchanges an hour while still getting 97-99% humidity. This has disintegrated into a really dumb back and forth.

Again, a 2-liter, with a large number of smallish holes (think wiffleball) with 2-3" of perlite at the bottom, will meet both of these requirements.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: wocka]
    #7574191 - 10/29/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

wocka said:
so...

what is better,

having too much FAE and loosing moisture

or

too little FAE ang high moisture?




Well, you should be able to reach a balance but if not:

Casings are more tolerant to lower RH (a lot of people even lower it to 80% for fruiting) while cakes don't like low humity, so If I was doing cakes and had to choose between higher FAE but loosing RH or the oposite I'd prefer to sacrifice some FAE to keep the humidity up.

Just put a couple inches of perlite in the bottom, and cover with the bottle with a few holes in and put in a slightly draughty area and you won't even have to fan.


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: Nibin]
    #7574302 - 10/29/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Casings are more tolerant to lower RH (a lot of people even lower it to 80% for fruiting)




That's absurd. No reputable source would advise that. They're more tolerant, only if you keep the casing material itself so hydrated as to generate its own RH from evaporation. Not easy, and hardly something to aim for.


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7574699 - 10/29/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

man!:sad:


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Big soda bottle tek. [Re: CaptainLinger] * 1
    #7575470 - 10/30/07 05:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CaptainLinger said:
Quote:

Casings are more tolerant to lower RH (a lot of people even lower it to 80% for fruiting)




That's absurd. No reputable source would advise that. They're more tolerant, only if you keep the casing material itself so hydrated as to generate its own RH from evaporation. Not easy, and hardly something to aim for.




I'm not saying that I recommend it, just that quite a few people here do this and get consistent results. If you had cakes at that kind of RH you wouldn't get anything or very little.

In fact, as long as you keep your casing layer properly hydrated you can work with even lower RHs, but it is a pain in the ass to hydrate the casing and you are risking major overlay.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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