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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
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Humans devolving in modern culture
    #7569063 - 10/28/07 07:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If anything. It seems humans stay in immaturity longer and longer. Living with an off parents often into late 20s and even thirties and acting as if they are incapable of thinking rationally most of their lives. :monkeydance: It's pathetic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLion
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569080 - 10/28/07 08:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: Slow Sunday morning?

What does people living with their parents have to do with humans devolving?  In some societies people live with their parents their whole lives.  So what?  You're just making a value judgement based on your culturally conditioned understanding of how humans should behave. 

immaturity does not equate with devolution
living at home does not equate with being irrational

So.... I don't get it! :confused:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Lion]
    #7569128 - 10/28/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: Actually I made this post in a hurry as I'm not at home.

Human adolescence is extended further and further and so children stay home longer and longer because they have difficulty making it on their own emotionally and economically. This modern culture is not tribal and so adults have left home traditionally to start their own family etc.

Of course everything I say is subjective so is unnecessary to say that my opinions are culturally conditioned because I have acknowledged this over and over here. Although you might have to think about the fact that this opinion is not the culturally approved one most likely. 

Here's a good example and not an uncommon one anymore. I have a close friend who's ex husband and father of her children will not pay child support and cannot hold a job and so is still allowed to live at home off Mommy and Daddy. He has a college degree but the emotional strength and maturity less then his 7 year old son.

Of course the idea of d-evolution is not a correct term but that term is bandied about here for all sorts of inappropriate reasons such as "spiritual evolution" and I never heard you complain then so I figured it would go over here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/28/07 08:36 AM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569148 - 10/28/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I see what you're saying, when you put it that way. In most cultures where humans lived at home for long times in other parts of the world, they were doing hard labor before they hit double digits in age.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Lion]
    #7569150 - 10/28/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Evolution and devolution... who the hell knows what those words mean. Not me.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Lion]
    #7569162 - 10/28/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

As far as I know the term evolution only applies to physical changes in a species for the purpose of adaption within the physical environment for the purpose of survival of the species.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Lion]
    #7569163 - 10/28/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Evolution and devolution... who the hell knows what those words mean. Not me.



Evo forward, Devo backward. And i think we need to devolve or at least be put in a situation where we need to revert back to survival instincts. It would be good for those blackberry addicted desk jockeys.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569166 - 10/28/07 08:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
As far as I know the term evolution only applies to physical changes in a species for the purpose of adaption within the physical environment for the purpose of survival of the species.



Considering we are the only creatures that think spiritually, i think that should be recognized in it's own field of evolution.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7569186 - 10/28/07 09:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Considering we are the only creatures that think spiritually,

assumption on you're part.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineArchemetis
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569347 - 10/28/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i think adolencence is prolonged because youth have no clear transistional expirience into adulthood. at least males of our society dont. graduating high school or college dosent make someone an adult.


Edited by Archemetis (10/28/07 10:24 AM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Archemetis]
    #7569379 - 10/28/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What good would a "transitional experience" do if a child is raised to think that they are not responsible for their actions?  :confused:  Those who indulge in a prolonged adolescence have a well-cultivated sense of entitlement and victimhood--"poor me, life is so very difficult to navigate!"  Their parents bail them out of every negative consequence they would otherwise learn from, and tell them that it is not their fault. 

What children need are many, many, many transitional experiences into adulthood, over the course of their 18 years living at home.  They need a little room to get into trouble, and then a talk about why they got into trouble, and what they could do differently next time.  They need to clean some toilets, face people whom they have wronged, work for the extra money they receive, and be taught by word and deed that they are 100% responsible for the quality of their experience during their lifetime.

The coming-of-age rituals which tribal cultures use to mark the beginning of adulthood would be useless if they did not raise adults in the first place.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Veritas]
    #7569397 - 10/28/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I agree and have cleaned a few of those toilets.

Unfortunately I'm still immature IMO. BUT I can and do take care of myself and meet my responsibilities to others.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineArchemetis
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569407 - 10/28/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

absolutly right.

and now days it seems there are to many grown males with wounded boy syndrome to be in any possition to teach their children to be men. which stack the odds against the children


Edited by Archemetis (10/28/07 10:56 AM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Archemetis]
    #7569413 - 10/28/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Women can teach children to be men, too, as the important aspects of being a man have nothing to do with having a penis.  :shrug:


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OfflineArchemetis
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Veritas]
    #7569428 - 10/28/07 11:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

you may be right. but i think this is a complicated problem in our society that has many contributing factors and no easy answers.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Archemetis]
    #7569450 - 10/28/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Who says that what I've proposed constitute "easy answers"?  :confused:

I'm currently raising two future men amidst a culture which opposes my values.  This is a daily uphill battle, but one which I see as entirely worthwhile.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Veritas]
    #7569476 - 10/28/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Women can teach children to be men, too, as the important aspects of being a man have nothing to do with having a penis.




True. A woman can teach a male child how to operate a TV remote and pop open a beer.


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7569487 - 10/28/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You forgot "how to recline a La-Z-boy."  :wink:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Icelander]
    #7569564 - 10/28/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Like Jack Kerouac, Bukowski, Van Gogh or ummm maybe Stephen Hawkings? Those babies were known to not always be able to take care of themselves and spent much time in some nest. There are so many others among those I would consider evolved creatively, intellectually, emotionally or being in other ways very different from the run-of-the-mill eager working types that always get everything done and follow rules, therefore are perfectly adapted to the machine. You sound like those who criticize native Americans for being leeching fuck-ups without taking into consideration the surrounding factors contributing.

Maybe society is developing in some very "unnatural" directions, which makes it harder for some kind of people to fit in or to slave for their living. When a society and the masses are fucked up, some sort of people sometimes have a hard time adapting and surviving. Chaos (eccentricity) cannot be true to its' nature when pushed into order or boxed into squares. Or maybe people are just very different, and being aimed towards survival not always the one thing that defines a successful or "mature" human being. In a tribal society ie people would overlap eachother more.

"Mickey Mouse ain't got no fuckin soooouuuulll!" Bukowski.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Humans devolving in modern culture [Re: Veritas]
    #7569568 - 10/28/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Women can teach children to be men, too, as the important aspects of being a man have nothing to do with having a penis.  :shrug:



 
 



Well maybe then he needed to include spoiled and immature women. That means most of them that I meet. They are taught to snag a man to take care of things. This often backfires and then they whine.

In this country most people are overweight unhealthy in debt and can't handle managing their personal and financial realities. Where were their parents?

A culture in steep decline is what I see.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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