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OfflineNStoney
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Questions/Experiences with Coir
    #7567182 - 10/27/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My current setup is as follows.... WBS to 80/10/10 Coir/Coffee/Cowpoo, uncased. I've had some trouble/mixed results with casing. After trying numerous things I've had the best luck with pastuerized jiffy-mix. Even so I've found that I get bigger/better yields going uncased.

When I do my bulk spawns I mix the crumbled WBS with the coir in a shoebox sized rubbermaid bin. Sometimes I mix the coir/spawn thoroughly/evenly throughout the entire container, but recently a couple of times I slacked off on the mixing and ended up with a solid coir/spawn mix in the center portions of the container, but the walls and bottom of the container were straight coir (kinda like a gumball with a 50/50 WBS/Coir center and a 100% coir shell). This inadvertant slacking off led to some interesting results though.

Prior to this inadvertant discovery I had been having issues with small numbers (but huge sized fruits), and pins forming under the casing. Frustrated with my poor results, I decided to take one of the rubbermaids, that I had not mixed evenly, and
remove the cake by flipping it over onto a piece of flat tinfoil, and then putting it in the terrarium. I figured that since I wasn't getting that many pins on the top, id flip it and see if I have any luck with pinning on the bottom and sides of the cake.

Low and behold I ended up getting pins everywhere! The most incredible pinning i've experienced yet, and this is with B+ which i hear commonly likes to give only a few (but huge) fruits in a flush.

After analyzing the situation, here is what I discovered.....

1) When thouroughly and evenly mixed with the coir, the WBS will happily expand its growth turning the WBS/coir cake into one solid piece of mycelium. But I've noticed that the mycelium doesn't seem to be able to sustain itself on coir alone. The myc. spreads around the clusters of WBS in the coir, but the mycelium really thins out and eventually stops extending its growth into the coir when it is too far away from a cluster of WBS.

I found this a little strange as coir is supposed to be nutritious and able to support mycelium growth right? So what is the definative answer here...
(?)Is coir really nutritious or not?
(?)Is the coir alone nutritious enough to sustain mycelium growth?


2) Another interesting thing I noticed (which explains my poor flush numbers previously) is that the mycelium doesn't want to pin in areas where it is really dense and there are alot of nutes, (around the WBS). In contrast, I've experienced HUGE numbers of pins forming on the outter areas of the cake where there is little to no WBS present (less nutes) and the mycelium has thinly grown into the coir in that area.

(?) Am I not getting full potential out of my cakes because the coir doesn't have enough nutes?
(?) Why am I getting incredible pinsets on the coir only portions of my cakes.
(?) Should I be using a different bulk substrate, and use the coir as a casing layer?


Also... when I say "cake" i am refering to the block of colonized WBS/Coir mix that I have removed from the rubbermaid container that it colonized the bulk substrate in.

Sorry for the rambling/longwindedness. Any insight into the characteristics of coir, how to best put it to use, and how I could improve my setup would be greatly appreciated.... Thanks!


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InvisibleThis guy
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: NStoney]
    #7567494 - 10/27/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

coir should be used as a bulk substrate..

as far as nutes.. its a heated depate. some of the respectable growers say as far as nutrients, it lies between cow and hpoo... if you have coir, and wbs.. why not just colonize a wbs quart jar.. and spawn it into coir and case it?

or did i misread something? you're using WBS and Coir in half pints and birthing them like cakes?


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OfflineFunkatron9000
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: This guy]
    #7567525 - 10/27/07 06:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yea try spawning 1 qt WBS to something like 3-4 qt's coir/coffee (90/10) in a bulk tub.  let it sit for 5-10 days in the dark (until it's ready to be cased) then case that SOB and watch the magic happen. I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed with the results. :thumbup:


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OfflineNStoney
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: Funkatron9000]
    #7568616 - 10/28/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yea I wasn't very clear i guess. I'm doing 1 & 1/2 pint WBS jars. Apon colonization they are being spawned to 80/10/10 Coir/Coffee/Cowpoo. Its the colonization of the bulk substrate (coir/coffee/cpoo) that im experiencing the issues with pinning. Actually, you know what.... I think this'd be much clearer if I put up a pic.....


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: NStoney]
    #7568806 - 10/28/07 05:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

by not mixing properly you are effectively creating a cased substrate where your spawnless coir is acting as a casing.

Also, if you are getting lots of pins on the bottom it is probably due to the fact that or

a) the bottom of your container lets some light through and the shrooms grow towards that light

or b) You don't have correct humidity values on the top side of your substrate and so the mycelium has to fruit on the underside.

Also, make sure you cover the edges when they pull away from the sides of the container. that can help avoid light and fresh air getting to the bottom which promotes bottom pinning.

An excellent read on pinning:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: Nibin]
    #7569417 - 10/28/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

by not mixing properly you are effectively creating a cased substrate where your spawnless coir is acting as a casing.




That is exactly what I was thinking.

When I spawn straight coir w/ wbs at a ratio of about 3:1 coir:wbs it colonizes fully in about 5 days. It definitely has some nutritional value, the mycelium gobbles it up pretty fast.

Cubes don't need a casing layer to fruit, but I would recommend using a casing layer of 50/50 peat/verm to get a better pinset and ultimately a better yield.

As for side/bottom pinning, that is most likely a humidity issue. Pins form where they have the moisture available to do so, so get the RH up and see if that helps.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: simplemachine]
    #7569489 - 10/28/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A couple of years ago, coir was basically only used as a casing layer, and considered problematic if used on it's own as it tended to overlay.

Then I stopped visiting this site and somewhere along the line someone realized that coir could be used as a substrate.

Imagine my surprise when I log back on and I see loads of people asking questions about coir as a substrate when I had only ever used it as casing material mixed with verm.


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OfflineNStoney
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: Nibin]
    #7569721 - 10/28/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yup I think that must be whats happening. I just never seem to have any luck with casing though. I always end up with the mycelium growing through the casing too dense, or (more often) the mycelium doesn't seem to grow into the casing layer at all and the mushrooms start forming under the casing layer.

It seems that mycelium is extremely picky, and it will only pin in the areas where it has lightly grown into the casing. Here is a pic of what I'm dealing with. While the pinset is way uneven and crazy looking, i'm somewhat happy because its much better than what i've been getting on the casings that go uncolonized.



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OfflineNStoney
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: NStoney]
    #7569729 - 10/28/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You can click that image to take a look at the large picture. The pins really only seem to form on the edges inbetween the growth that is too dense and where the mycelium never made it all the way through the coir.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: NStoney]
    #7569742 - 10/28/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

looks like humidity problems to me


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OfflineNStoney
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Re: Questions/Experiences with Coir [Re: Nibin]
    #7571372 - 10/28/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Really? RH is 90% all the time. I've got a cool mist (Non-wicking) type humidifier running 45 on 15 off.


If you look at the picture it seems that the pins really like the area right between the dense mycelium covered coir and the uncolonized coir. I never seem to have luck getting pins to form on areas that are densly covered in mycelium.

Here's what I'm thinking...
-Make sure my spawn substrate is thoroughly mixed
-Use a larger amount of WBS spawn per coir spawn substrate

-Case with jiffymix (Shortly after the WBS starts to colonize the coir)

Hopefully by doing this stuff I can achieve the kind of results occuring on the edge of this cake but all over the entire thing


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