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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7565383 - 10/27/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

4D creatures would be able to travel in time at will. They can live life like a DVD player, forward the bad parts and rewind back to the good times.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565455 - 10/27/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

why would they be able to travel time at will? assuming they were just percieving in a higher spacial dimension?


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Offlinesirbojangles
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565456 - 10/27/07 12:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

dig that

there are probobly entities that live in four dimensions right next to us

but i get four dimensions

its something that changes from different perpectives

you cant percieve it as a whole but you can as a 2d representation


Edited by sirbojangles (10/27/07 01:09 AM)


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OfflineNova


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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565465 - 10/27/07 01:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

This is how you draw a 4d cube or 'hypercube'.


You start off with the four squares and you make them into pairs of cubes. Say square 1 and 3 you connect into a cube and 2 and 4 also. Next you connect 1 and 2 into a cube then 3 and 4 (red lines).

And SymmetryGroup, I think thats how we would perceive a 4th dimensional being. They wouldn't be able to control time like fast forward and rewind at will (well maybe, hell if i know lol), but rather their existence would encompass the whole movie (not in a linear, moment by moment fashion like humans, hence why we cannot comprehend/perceive the 4th dimension) or another way of saying it would be "outside of time". There would be no reason to rewind or fast forward because they are living both moments at the same time.


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: Nova]
    #7565470 - 10/27/07 01:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm sorry, I meant creatures that can perceive time as a spatial dimension. It was the plot of some sci-fi book.


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Edited by SymmetryGroup8 (10/27/07 01:05 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565478 - 10/27/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Im not convinced there is a difference between temporal and spatial dimensions. Sure we perceive a difference, but does that imply there is some sort of real inherent difference? Maybe not...


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7565521 - 10/27/07 01:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps?

But let's suppose there are these 2D creatures from flat land, their entire world consists of my graph pad. They can move forward and backward, up and down.

What does it mean for them to travel forward in time? Would it be an animation? Let's say they animate, so we see them as cartoons. Moving in their 2D space. But, we all all moving together in the temporal dimension.

If we percieved their time dimension as a spatial dimension, can we fastforward and rewind them at will?

We could do this if we controlled their time. That is, we control the animation system of their world, we could rewind them like a video game.

But if we don't have this control, does that mean both the Flat landers and us live in the same time dimension?

What I'm saying is, if we had no control of flat land. Flat landers move by their own will, then we are living in the same temporal dimension.

However, if we controlled their time, then we don't live in their time dimension.


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565530 - 10/27/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Also, we can move the graph pad in 3D (by moving it physically with my hand). The flat landers would not be aware of this. But this is moving through the 3D spatial dimension.

We can see this, because we live in 3D. But both flatlanders and us would live in the 4th temporal dimension, the temporal dimension that us humans percieve.

While if we also controlled their flat land animation system, then we would control their time. Does that mean that they live in 2 temporal dimensions?

Our temporal dimension, plus their temporal dimension, i.e the animation system.


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565541 - 10/27/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hey BTW DieCommie, I'm not refuting what you are saying at all.


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InvisibleLosAngelesGraff
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: The_Ghost]
    #7565579 - 10/27/07 02:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yea that 4th dimensional cube was cool


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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7565666 - 10/27/07 03:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thats just chaoscope.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7565967 - 10/27/07 07:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Im not convinced there is a difference between temporal and spatial dimensions. Sure we perceive a difference, but does that imply there is some sort of real inherent difference? Maybe not...




I think the key is that we are 3 dimensional creatures living in a 4D space (or space-time).

Being 3 dimensional, we have some degree of control over the 3 "spatial" dimensions. Not being 4D means that while we can perceive the 4th dimension (time), we have no control over our movement through it.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: trendal]
    #7565991 - 10/27/07 07:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)





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OfflineMr_DeeMsTer
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: The_Ghost]
    #7566059 - 10/27/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

go watch the movie "hypercube" i didnt read through all the posts to see if it was said, so i said it.


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: thePatient]
    #7566910 - 10/27/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thePatient said:







so all of the angels in these would be right angels?


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7566931 - 10/27/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

so all of the angels in these would be right angels?


Right, in 4-D space all of those would be right angles. Also all of those sides would be of equal length.


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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: trendal]
    #7567075 - 10/27/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:

I think the key is that we are 3 dimensional creatures living in a 4D space (or space-time).

Being 3 dimensional, we have some degree of control over the 3 "spatial" dimensions. Not being 4D means that while we can perceive the 4th dimension (time), we have no control over our movement through it.




How are we so sure the forth dimension is time, what if its just some other sort of measurable thing. Like temperature. What if 4D beings can create ice and fire just by thinking about it. Maybe the forth dimension is a dimension that we cant even perceive. 1D beings probably cant perceive height, 2D beings probably cant perceive depth and 3D creatures probably cant perceive the forth dimension.

This leads me to believe that there are unperceivealbe beings walking amongst us who deal with our dimension just like we draw our blue prints in 2D and use written communication in 2D and have complete control of us. AKA a god, and I don't believe in god, therefore I don't believe in the forth dimension.

Humans tend to over think things, and the forth dimension seems like a perfect example of this. Maybe a new religion will sprout from this thinking. The day they give me solid evidence of a 4D object or being is the day I will change me opinion on 4D. And those animations with the box collapsing/expanding upon itself just doesnt seem like in depicts a 4D object. And if it is, whoopty do, we can make a really expensive useless box.

If anything this is what a 4D box would look like.


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: Idiot]
    #7567626 - 10/27/07 06:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nobody is saying any of this is supposed to be real.

A 4 cube is to me an abstract mathematical concept. What you see in those rotating pictures are simply the projection of a 4 cube onto a 2D surface, nothing more. It's just like the Mandelbrot set. What is it? It's just a concept visualized using computers. But can we derive concrete things from abstract structures? Yes!

Could 4 cube exist in reality? Who knows, but I doubt it. It's merely a concept.

Does the existence of a 4th spatial dimension implies the existence of GOD? No!

Human do tend to over think about things, which I think is good. It's what makes up human, to conceptualize.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Four Dimensional Cube - Do you get it? [Re: Idiot]
    #7567771 - 10/27/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Idiot said:
Thats just chaoscope.




thanks for that link, man!

that is just fantastic!


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