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Offlinekotik
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drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone?
    #7559712 - 10/25/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Recently, I was speaking with someone regarding use, especially for gaining insight and etc. and this person just kept mentioning how they had already been through their "drug phase" and grew out of it. They started to imply that it's just immature to continue using drugs.

I know more than a few people that have this attitude. Personally, it seems to just reflect their character as being people that use drugs to escape, or as a recreational hobby. Perhaps even as a social experience. For myself (and I imagine many others) it's more of a way of life. Another set of tools for introspection and gaining perspective - yet, these people still claim it's due to immaturity and ironically... escapism.

Is there a reason behind this and/or good argument against such logic? I try explaining that the use of certain substances have been around since the dawn of civilization - and their use has been documented in sacred texts from the very beginning of religion and etc.

Never seems to get through... is this a common outlook? It just seems extra ignorant because these people have actually used before - they just feel like it was a phase of growing up, and are now too high and mighty to consider these substances have actual uses other than "omg letz get fukked up!"

/rant


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7559743 - 10/25/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Life is just a phase.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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OfflineMonChe
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: unbeliever]
    #7559802 - 10/25/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've talked to people like this, ironically while drinking at a bar.  The setting definitely helped my argument.  I explained to her that beer should have just been a phase then.  When we were in highschool we drank 'to get wasted' and did funny and stupid things like kids do.  But now we still drink but the mentality has changed.  We are still getting drunk and having fun and I asked her why she still drinks if it was just something highschool kids did to get wasted.

She still didn't get it tho.  OR she did but couldn't admit it which is I think more the truth. Because in her mind (and many others) its alcohol and drugs. alcohol is separate from 'drugs' and are very different things.

Anyway, the point of the argument was that the substance was separate from the usage.  you can smoke weed to watch cartoons or you can smoke weed to enjoy a walk in the park.  The drug use itself wasn't a phase, but using the drug immaturely was.  but I still enjoy cartoons high :smile:


--------------------
MonChe, Leading the monkeys against the tyranny of the apes in the Gorilla wars!


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Offlineblacksun
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: MonChe]
    #7559829 - 10/25/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Heres a good one.

What is the most powerful date-rape drug in use?
Alcohol(fact)

Just explain how bad alcohol is.
And sugar.

I would say, all hallucinogens, including cannabis, put together, do less damage than alcohol alone.

Maybe even all hallucinogenic use in a 10 year period, is less than the statistics of alcohol in a single year.

Do a bit of research, get some decent statistics and destroy their arguments.:dancingshroom:


--------------------
uarewotueat - "Libs are messy as hell, I don't know whether to take a shit or get a haircut when I'm on them!"


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Offlinetodesengel
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blacksun]
    #7560201 - 10/25/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are you saying people who have those views argue and say that continuing drug use is stupid?

Because I have kinda the same views. I do think that drug use is a phase. I already went through my rolling phase. I have rolled enough times and don't care to do it again.

But I don't think that anyone is immature or stupid for doing what they want to do.

I do have the mindset of wanting to get fucked up ONLY when I am drinking. When I drink I drink to get as wasted as possible. But I never go overboard to where I puke.


Edited by todesengel (10/25/07 06:21 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: todesengel]
    #7560334 - 10/25/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How do you know you're not in your own "psychedelic phase"?

I think it's possible I'm just in a psychedelics phase. Even if this is a phase, I know that I'll carry the lessons I've learned forever. And if not, well, I'm quite perfectly comfortable with the idea of using psychedelics throughout the rest of my life.

Different strokes for different folks, eh? Personally I think it's pointless trying to talk somebody into understanding what makes these drugs so special (or harmless, or what have you). Some people just don't understand.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (10/25/07 07:01 PM)


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Offlineslamdunk
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7560434 - 10/25/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

psychedelics are a way of life... not just a phase...
just give them a large dose of mushrooms... that should be convincing enough


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Offlinemikeytro
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: slamdunk]
    #7560492 - 10/25/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

slamdunk said:
psychedelics are a way of life... not just a phase...





just a little generalization...?


I disagree...many people I know went through a psychedelic phase when they were a bit younger and seem completely done with it


--------------------
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein


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OfflineAzurescendence
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: mikeytro]
    #7560652 - 10/25/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps it would be better to say that the psychedelic mindset, outlook, and (perhaps) experience is a way of life for some people.  (many people in some communities or cultures - such as this one lol)


I do hold out hope that more and more people will come to understand the physical benevolence of the psychedelic substances; and that many of the negative preconceptions about psychedelic (especially cannabis) users might be diminished. Perhaps in the future... we can have a more open social dialog concerning the place of psychedelics and the benefits that can be enjoyed when they are used responsibly.

Knowledge is power.


~ls :stoned:


--------------------
~ Peace, love, happiness, and good health to all. ~


Edited by Azurescendence (10/25/07 09:07 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: Azurescendence]
    #7562473 - 10/26/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

as far as arguing is concerned, the issues are really political, but only one issue is critical:
cognitive liberty is the critical issue.
without it, important personal rights to explore and exploit psychedelic states are thwarted. these valid rights have been declared illegal though no harm comes from the usage.

the legal issues as they relate to smoking and drinking are only just beginning to come into line:

2nd hand smoke is a known thing to legislate against but the personal freedom to indulge in tobacco is protected.

drunk driving is prohibited, but domestic violence is still an area that is confused.

lsd and mushrooms do not contribute to 2nd hand effects nor to domestic violence and only extremely rarely to driving under the influence.

you could say that alco hol does not appeal to everyone, and you migh agree that lsd and musrooms appeal to fewer.
so there is a minority rights and discrimination issue as well.

Anyway, when people have different politics, usually by association with peers - co-workers or the like, then you can't argue effectively, but the cause of cognitive liberty still needs to be pursued with dignity in the government and the courts.


--------------------
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Offlinekotik
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7564357 - 10/26/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

im not sure a political debate would be a great alternative to a debate that seems to be more about maturity.

it's just extremely hard since some people link drug use to immaturity (via "phases") due to their own immature perspective, making it almost impossible to explain that use can also be about a genuine experience with good reason behind it, not escapism or getting "fucked up"


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineLocus
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7564430 - 10/26/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

dont.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: Locus]
    #7565185 - 10/26/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

how can you explain experience to someone who does not want to hear.
this is not a person who can map maturity to the issue
it is purely politics.
so
everyone is entitled to their opinions but
their opinions actions and words have to permit other people liberty as well.
a disinterested person can at least latch onto the essence of cognitive liberty,
that is the max of maturity for the disinclined masses.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7565206 - 10/26/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It could just be a phase :shrug:

or maybe some people just get sick of putting up with the bullshit that comes along with it(illegal drugs)

perhaps thats why you see people quiting drugs as they get older but continue to use alcohol.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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OfflineMooshRage
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: aDoS]
    #7565234 - 10/26/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with aDoS, maybe they've gained enough insight and have grown out of the phase, alcohol is easier to get


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blacksun]
    #7565272 - 10/26/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blacksun said:
Heres a good one.

What is the most powerful date-rape drug in use?
Alcohol(fact)

Just explain how bad alcohol is.
And sugar.

I would say, all hallucinogens, including cannabis, put together, do less damage than alcohol alone.

Maybe even all hallucinogenic use in a 10 year period, is less than the statistics of alcohol in a single year.

Do a bit of research, get some decent statistics and destroy their arguments.:dancingshroom:




Imagine as many people who use alcohol, using hallucinogenic drugs. There will be some problems I promise you that. Hallucinogenic drugs can make some people absolutely fucked in the head.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


Edited by aDoS (10/26/07 11:54 PM)


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InvisibleTripityDooDaDay
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: MooshRage]
    #7565283 - 10/26/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Alcohol is wicked. A phase can truly be determined to be so only after it is over.


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Offlinekraj
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: TripityDooDaDay]
    #7565453 - 10/27/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think most just get to the point where it's too much to lose if you get caught.


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Offlinesirbojangles
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7565482 - 10/27/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dont like to argue

but if pressed id say that drugs are what you make of them just like everything else


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Offlinekotik
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: aDoS]
    #7565695 - 10/27/07 03:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
Imagine as many people who use alcohol, using hallucinogenic drugs. There will be some problems I promise you that. Hallucinogenic drugs can make some people absolutely fucked in the head.




im not sure wed be any worse off... im not aware of many people that get violent on hallucinogenic drugs.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7565906 - 10/27/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps it would be best to approach people with these kinds of attitudes in a genuinely inquisitive manner first. You need to ask people exactly what they mean when they say they've "grown out" of their "drug phase". Question #1: WHICH drugs? Question #2: Under what circumstances (time, place, etc..)? Question #3: Why did you use these specific drugs?
Telling someone you've grown out of the phase they're 'in' is condescending, but understandable. The point is to get personal in your conversation in an engaging, constructive manner. Just listen to them and what they have to say about their personal experiences with drugs. Once you get a better picture of the person you're dealing with, I can guarantee your communication which be far more effective--if you want it to be. Don't start debating until A) you know exactly who you're talking to and B) you know exactly what you're talking about and what you want to talk about or debate if necessary.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: slamdunk]
    #7565941 - 10/27/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

slamdunk said:
psychedelics are a way of life... not just a phase...
just give them a large dose of mushrooms... that should be convincing enough




Ironically, large doses of mushrooms uuuusually leave me with the insight that psychedelic drug use is a temporary solution, and that I must learn to reach the same levels of awareness WITHOUT the drug to aid me.


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: MonChe]
    #7575253 - 10/30/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I agreed that drug use was not a phase up until yesterday...I met with my long, long time family friend. We'll call him L. L is about 55, and I just happened to be visiting the family when he came home. We talked for a while, about life, about school, it's amazing the type of wisdom an old man can impart on a young mans life [I'll be 20 in January]. He let me know that he thinks drugs should be legal, but not encouraged. He recounted his life at my age and it sounded startlingly similar...we're both fatherless, somewhat outcasts, and into drugs. He has tried everything, and I mean just damn near everything - and when asked what his favorite was, he told me heroin by far.

He told me "that in the end - drugs, lead no where. They'll ultimately lead you down of road that you can't follow and can't use - it's an interesting road for sure, but it's a dead end - my advice to you is to never use them, and to invest in yourself and your mind". He laid that on me, among a lot of other good advice. I think that though my drug use is very, very likely to be a phase [one in which, other than pot, I'm not far from done with] - I'll enjoy it for the time being..but soon my phase will end, as will most..

I guess I'd just check the demographics of this website as proof? Last time I read a thread about the ages of most users, males in their twenties were amazingly common. Maybe it IS a phase. We're all just looking for something, and drugs fill that void. Once we've found the real way to heal ourselves without drugs, we won't want/care about them anymore. :yinyang:


Edited by blkjkrabbit (10/30/07 01:50 AM)


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Offlinenux
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7575409 - 10/30/07 04:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
He told me "that in the end - drugs, lead no where. They'll ultimately lead you down of road that you can't follow and can't use - it's an interesting road for sure, but it's a dead end - my advice to you is to never use them, and to invest in yourself and your mind"




Well, ultimately, life is such that every road you will follow is a "dead end"...


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Offlineblacksun
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: aDoS]
    #7575411 - 10/30/07 04:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
Quote:

blacksun said:
Heres a good one.

What is the most powerful date-rape drug in use?
Alcohol(fact)

Just explain how bad alcohol is.
And sugar.

I would say, all hallucinogens, including cannabis, put together, do less damage than alcohol alone.

Maybe even all hallucinogenic use in a 10 year period, is less than the statistics of alcohol in a single year.

Do a bit of research, get some decent statistics and destroy their arguments.:dancingshroom:




Imagine as many people who use alcohol, using hallucinogenic drugs. There will be some problems I promise you that. Hallucinogenic drugs can make some people absolutely fucked in the head.




Indeed they can, but moderation is the key.
There isnt really a way to know what society would be like if psychedelics were legal.
I think it would be fucking weird, on a saturday evening, if most of the people walking around are tripping.


--------------------
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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blacksun]
    #7575433 - 10/30/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

In a society that friendly, it'd be fucking rad. Everyone would just be having a good time, and the odd person that'd bad trip would get comforted by many experts. Dreamworld.


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Huuuuurrrrrr!


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OfflineBoots
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7575590 - 10/30/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps one day I'll quit using drugs (at least marijuana, 'shrooms, etc) but maybe not.

I think the only way I'll quit is through overuse or bad experiences.

It's like going to Cedar Point (amusement park, for those who don't know); if you go every year or less frequent than that, you still haven't quit going, you just don't feel the need to do it as often.


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Offlinebobty
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
    #7576025 - 10/30/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think the context of the drug use is more important than anything, me and my close friends have gone from drinking and smoking wherever we could to being faced with decent options regarding what we do. The entire experience becomes more enjoyable when a reasonable level of control is introduced.

The whole concept of user maturity is somewhat incorrect as far as i'm concerned: I personally don't consider arrogance over personal choices a matter of either mental or physical age.

Everything regarding drugs always really boils down to knowledge, or rather lack of. As an example often when you speak to people who are opposed to drugs they have very very little in the way of reasons for why they feel how they do, I'd rather not delve into the politics of the matter but it seems many people are happy to accept the notion "drugs are bad" without the slightest amount of effort put into challenging that assumption.


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