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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone?
#7559712 - 10/25/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Recently, I was speaking with someone regarding use, especially for gaining insight and etc. and this person just kept mentioning how they had already been through their "drug phase" and grew out of it. They started to imply that it's just immature to continue using drugs.
I know more than a few people that have this attitude. Personally, it seems to just reflect their character as being people that use drugs to escape, or as a recreational hobby. Perhaps even as a social experience. For myself (and I imagine many others) it's more of a way of life. Another set of tools for introspection and gaining perspective - yet, these people still claim it's due to immaturity and ironically... escapism.
Is there a reason behind this and/or good argument against such logic? I try explaining that the use of certain substances have been around since the dawn of civilization - and their use has been documented in sacred texts from the very beginning of religion and etc.
Never seems to get through... is this a common outlook? It just seems extra ignorant because these people have actually used before - they just feel like it was a phase of growing up, and are now too high and mighty to consider these substances have actual uses other than "omg letz get fukked up!"
/rant
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!


Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
#7559743 - 10/25/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Life is just a phase.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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MonChe
RevolutionaryMonkey



Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: unbeliever]
#7559802 - 10/25/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've talked to people like this, ironically while drinking at a bar. The setting definitely helped my argument. I explained to her that beer should have just been a phase then. When we were in highschool we drank 'to get wasted' and did funny and stupid things like kids do. But now we still drink but the mentality has changed. We are still getting drunk and having fun and I asked her why she still drinks if it was just something highschool kids did to get wasted.
She still didn't get it tho. OR she did but couldn't admit it which is I think more the truth. Because in her mind (and many others) its alcohol and drugs. alcohol is separate from 'drugs' and are very different things.
Anyway, the point of the argument was that the substance was separate from the usage. you can smoke weed to watch cartoons or you can smoke weed to enjoy a walk in the park. The drug use itself wasn't a phase, but using the drug immaturely was. but I still enjoy cartoons high
-------------------- MonChe, Leading the monkeys against the tyranny of the apes in the Gorilla wars!
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blacksun



Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1,390
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: MonChe]
#7559829 - 10/25/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Heres a good one.
What is the most powerful date-rape drug in use? Alcohol(fact)
Just explain how bad alcohol is. And sugar.
I would say, all hallucinogens, including cannabis, put together, do less damage than alcohol alone.
Maybe even all hallucinogenic use in a 10 year period, is less than the statistics of alcohol in a single year.
Do a bit of research, get some decent statistics and destroy their arguments.
-------------------- uarewotueat - "Libs are messy as hell, I don't know whether to take a shit or get a haircut when I'm on them!"
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todesengel
the chinese chicken

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 809
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blacksun]
#7560201 - 10/25/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you saying people who have those views argue and say that continuing drug use is stupid?
Because I have kinda the same views. I do think that drug use is a phase. I already went through my rolling phase. I have rolled enough times and don't care to do it again.
But I don't think that anyone is immature or stupid for doing what they want to do.
I do have the mindset of wanting to get fucked up ONLY when I am drinking. When I drink I drink to get as wasted as possible. But I never go overboard to where I puke.
Edited by todesengel (10/25/07 06:21 PM)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: todesengel]
#7560334 - 10/25/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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How do you know you're not in your own "psychedelic phase"?
I think it's possible I'm just in a psychedelics phase. Even if this is a phase, I know that I'll carry the lessons I've learned forever. And if not, well, I'm quite perfectly comfortable with the idea of using psychedelics throughout the rest of my life.
Different strokes for different folks, eh? Personally I think it's pointless trying to talk somebody into understanding what makes these drugs so special (or harmless, or what have you). Some people just don't understand.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (10/25/07 07:01 PM)
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slamdunk
MexicanGang-Banger
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 223
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
#7560434 - 10/25/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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psychedelics are a way of life... not just a phase... just give them a large dose of mushrooms... that should be convincing enough
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mikeytro
Stranger


Registered: 01/28/07
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: slamdunk]
#7560492 - 10/25/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
slamdunk said: psychedelics are a way of life... not just a phase...
just a little generalization...?
I disagree...many people I know went through a psychedelic phase when they were a bit younger and seem completely done with it
-------------------- "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
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Azurescendence
Seeker of Knowledge



Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 72
Loc: NE United States
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: mikeytro]
#7560652 - 10/25/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perhaps it would be better to say that the psychedelic mindset, outlook, and (perhaps) experience is a way of life for some people. (many people in some communities or cultures - such as this one lol)
I do hold out hope that more and more people will come to understand the physical benevolence of the psychedelic substances; and that many of the negative preconceptions about psychedelic (especially cannabis) users might be diminished. Perhaps in the future... we can have a more open social dialog concerning the place of psychedelics and the benefits that can be enjoyed when they are used responsibly.
Knowledge is power.
~ls
-------------------- ~ Peace, love, happiness, and good health to all. ~
Edited by Azurescendence (10/25/07 09:07 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: Azurescendence]
#7562473 - 10/26/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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as far as arguing is concerned, the issues are really political, but only one issue is critical: cognitive liberty is the critical issue. without it, important personal rights to explore and exploit psychedelic states are thwarted. these valid rights have been declared illegal though no harm comes from the usage.
the legal issues as they relate to smoking and drinking are only just beginning to come into line:
2nd hand smoke is a known thing to legislate against but the personal freedom to indulge in tobacco is protected.
drunk driving is prohibited, but domestic violence is still an area that is confused.
lsd and mushrooms do not contribute to 2nd hand effects nor to domestic violence and only extremely rarely to driving under the influence.
you could say that alco hol does not appeal to everyone, and you migh agree that lsd and musrooms appeal to fewer. so there is a minority rights and discrimination issue as well.
Anyway, when people have different politics, usually by association with peers - co-workers or the like, then you can't argue effectively, but the cause of cognitive liberty still needs to be pursued with dignity in the government and the courts.
--------------------
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: redgreenvines]
#7564357 - 10/26/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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im not sure a political debate would be a great alternative to a debate that seems to be more about maturity.
it's just extremely hard since some people link drug use to immaturity (via "phases") due to their own immature perspective, making it almost impossible to explain that use can also be about a genuine experience with good reason behind it, not escapism or getting "fucked up"
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Locus




Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
#7564430 - 10/26/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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dont.
--------------------
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: Locus]
#7565185 - 10/26/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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how can you explain experience to someone who does not want to hear. this is not a person who can map maturity to the issue it is purely politics. so everyone is entitled to their opinions but their opinions actions and words have to permit other people liberty as well. a disinterested person can at least latch onto the essence of cognitive liberty, that is the max of maturity for the disinclined masses.
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aDoS
freedom lover



Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
#7565206 - 10/26/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It could just be a phase 
or maybe some people just get sick of putting up with the bullshit that comes along with it(illegal drugs)
perhaps thats why you see people quiting drugs as they get older but continue to use alcohol.
-------------------- "If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH
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MooshRage
Learning

Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 145
Loc: My Shadow
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: aDoS]
#7565234 - 10/26/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree with aDoS, maybe they've gained enough insight and have grown out of the phase, alcohol is easier to get
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aDoS
freedom lover



Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: blacksun]
#7565272 - 10/26/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blacksun said: Heres a good one.
What is the most powerful date-rape drug in use? Alcohol(fact)
Just explain how bad alcohol is. And sugar.
I would say, all hallucinogens, including cannabis, put together, do less damage than alcohol alone.
Maybe even all hallucinogenic use in a 10 year period, is less than the statistics of alcohol in a single year.
Do a bit of research, get some decent statistics and destroy their arguments.
Imagine as many people who use alcohol, using hallucinogenic drugs. There will be some problems I promise you that. Hallucinogenic drugs can make some people absolutely fucked in the head.
-------------------- "If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH
Edited by aDoS (10/26/07 11:54 PM)
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TripityDooDaDay
Prick


Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 2,046
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: MooshRage]
#7565283 - 10/26/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alcohol is wicked. A phase can truly be determined to be so only after it is over.
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kraj
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/04
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: TripityDooDaDay]
#7565453 - 10/27/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think most just get to the point where it's too much to lose if you get caught.
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sirbojangles
h20

Registered: 10/22/05
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: kotik]
#7565482 - 10/27/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i dont like to argue
but if pressed id say that drugs are what you make of them just like everything else
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: drug use just a "phase?" How do you explain otherwise to someone? [Re: aDoS]
#7565695 - 10/27/07 03:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
aDoS said: Imagine as many people who use alcohol, using hallucinogenic drugs. There will be some problems I promise you that. Hallucinogenic drugs can make some people absolutely fucked in the head.
im not sure wed be any worse off... im not aware of many people that get violent on hallucinogenic drugs.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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