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OfflinePentahedral
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Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Help, some design and misc. questions!
    #7552924 - 10/23/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Hey all!

This is my first attempt at a mushroom grow, and so far it's been a long slow process. Before I get into my design questions I have a few general growing questions.

I realize these are fairly beginner questions but not only am I looking for info but opinion. I'm reading during every second of my free time so this is of course a work in progress.

Background:

I inoculated 8 Pint jars (half with B+, the other half with P. Cyanescens). Due to low temps in a basement it's taken a long time to colonize, roughly 3 months, this could also be due to to wet of a substrate. I've lost 5 jars so far to contamination, currently I believe to have 1 B+ and 2 P. C. (due to the wispy mycelium characteristic of the P. C.) On Sunday night I inoculated 7 half pint jars, 2 with P. C. and 5 with B+.
For the 2nd batch of jars I made a double chamber incubator, with one fish tank inside another with water and a fish tank heater in the larger one, heater is at 82 degrees F. I also moved the remaining 3 pint jars into this to try to speed things along.

Growing Question:

1. I would like to get the highest yield possible, I'm just not sure whether, at my noob stage, to try the easy route and fruit the cakes as is in the monotub project that I have going; or go the harder route and try to either mix a few/all of the jars into a mass substrate, and obviously then case that. Or I could simply case a few/all of the jars. Keep in mind that another 7 half pint jars should be on their way.

2. When I checked on one of the jars roughly 3 days ago I found that it was on its side in the bag, and on the side facing down was a light yellow spots and discoloration. It does not run down the entire side of the jar, just a little half way down starting from the top, and a few inches wide. Now I know from reading that mycelium can turn a pale yellow if to much moisture collects on it in the jar, because of reading that I have not taken it away from the others from fear of contamination. But my question is really what are the chances between that just being the effects of moisture or is it contaminated?

Design Question:

1. I have a 40" x 40" x 80" (L x W x H ) area to work with, I believe the best route to go would be to purchase or build a grow tent with those dimensions. I have not found a tent online yet with near those so I'm wondering if any has built something like that near those dimensions and what the outcome was?


Thanks for your patience and input :smile:

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Pentahedral]
    #7552994 - 10/23/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, this answer is solely based on the NOOB factor. KEEP IT SIMPLE! Your already having unacceptable contamination rates. 1 in 10 jars being an acceptable contamination rate. I tell this to everyone NOOB or not. If I've got a limited supply of spores, then my sole intent is to secure a grow to provide me with more spores. If I have to use the PF tek to secure a grow, so be it. At the end of the day, I can say I made 50+ spore prints to experiment with till my hearts content! I personally don't feel ready to take the P.C. on! I'm honing my skills as a mycologist with cubensis until I feel I'm ready to study a strain that requires all kinds of different things in order to fruit. That's just me though.


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Pentahedral]
    #7553473 - 10/24/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1. I have a 40" x 40" x 80" (L x W x H ) area to work with, I believe the best route to go would be to purchase or build a grow tent with those dimensions. I have not found a tent online yet with near those so I'm wondering if any has built something like that near those dimensions and what the outcome was?





It's the 80 in high your gonna have problems finding.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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OfflinePentahedral
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Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Magash]
    #7554430 - 10/24/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Quote:

1. I have a 40" x 40" x 80" (L x W x H ) area to work with, I believe the best route to go would be to purchase or build a grow tent with those dimensions. I have not found a tent online yet with near those so I'm wondering if any has built something like that near those dimensions and what the outcome was?





It's the 80 in high your gonna have problems finding.




Very nice, did you build that yourself?

edit: It looks like I could buy one pretty cheaply since it's now the off season, the martha tent looks like it might work, but I'll go make a store run today and see what's available.

Edited by Pentahedral (10/24/07 10:45 AM)

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InvisibleJrsxt
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Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 1,043
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Pentahedral]
    #7554526 - 10/24/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Wow. The P. Cyans are difficult to grow. I would have just stuck with cubensis to start off with. I admire you for this. Stick with it and maybe it will work out!

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OfflinePentahedral
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Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Jrsxt]
    #7554994 - 10/24/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jrsxt said:
Wow. The P. Cyans are difficult to grow. I would have just stuck with cubensis to start off with. I admire you for this. Stick with it and maybe it will work out!




Thanks  :smile:

I like to jump right into things, this might be a little large but there's a first for everything. Little bit of a slow start but I think things should start to progress quickly.

I need to also build a flow hood to do any more inoculating, spawning, or casing as well.

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,613
Loc: UK
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Pentahedral]
    #7555066 - 10/24/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

check out "rhizoo's" woodlover-regeneration-TEK @ mycotopia.com
for some truly inspirational woodlover (azures) photography and ideas.
i kid you not, i read the thread last night and it was like watching a film that you didn't want to come to an end.
smiled all the way through.breathtaking.
hope mention of "the other place" doesn't meet with mod disapproval.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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InvisibleGlacier Creek
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: deucedbi9]
    #7555127 - 10/24/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, where to begin.
First of all, and this is not meant to be rude in any way, but I have to assume from your attempt details so far that you probably did not prepare your jars correctly to begin with. Assuming for arguments sake that you did, your jars are probably not worth attempting to salvage at this point. Even if you did finally get them to colonize, they would most likely contam very badly by the time you got around to your first flush, let alone a second or third. My suggestion: START OVER CORRECTLY. If you are looking for a very simplified methed then check out the pf tek. If you are looking for a little less simplified, but much higher yeilding and potent tek take a look at my popcorn to manure tek for noobies. Here ----> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7547314/an/0/page/0

I am hoping that when you said P. cyans you did not mean "Psilocybe" If this is what you are attempting, you will not be able to get these to fruit indoors unless you have a very extensive refrigeration, and exact condition situation going on, and judging from the innability to follow the simple cubensis methods listed on this website, you are not going to be able to meet all the requirement, and luck, it would take to actually fruit one or two cyans indoors. However, if you get your jars of cyan spores to a fully colonized state, you can add it to a bag of soaked hardwood chips, such as alder, maple, ect, and then transfer those colonized chips to any shaded pine resin free place outdoors, and in a year you will have an annual fruiting cyan patch.
If you were talking about "Panaeolus" which I am assuming is what you mean, then you are still going to need to spawn these to actual manure in order to get them to spawn. For a first attempt at doing this I suggest my simple method:

Shred 10 cups of horse manure very finely into a large bucket of water.
Add a 1/4 cup of bleach and 1/4 cup hydrated lime to the water, mix and let set overnight.

The next day pour through a collander and press the manure down with a small plate to squeeze all extra water.

Set the manure aside, it does not need pastuerized yet.

Add 10 cups of vermiculite to a large bowl and stir in 2 cups of brown rice flour.

Moisten the vermiculite and brown rice flour to field capacity using regular or distilled water.

Combine the BRF/verm with the horse manure and mix it up really well. You want to evenly distribute the brown rice flour.

Now all you have to do is cover with punched hole lid, and tin foil, and pressure cook for one hour.

Remove your jars when cooled, remove foil, inoculate.

Incubate at 81-84 degrees until fully colonized.

Once colonized, remove foil from jar, and case.

A good casing for this is cactus mix and verm 50/50 pasturized at 170-180 degreese for one hour, then strained and cooled.

Put 1/4 inch of this on the top of your now open jar, cover with new foil with two small holes punched in for air exchange, and place entire jar into fruiting chamber.

After three days, remove foil, and mist casing ONLY when dry, and ONLY until pins form.

Once you see pins do not mist again.

Again, I am not trying to crush your hopes of pulling this off in any way. I am just saying that from a viewpoint of work hours, materials, and effort, it would be more cost effective for you to get a basic method from this website, and start over, but this time actually follow the methods. Only grow cubes first, then if you want to move onto something a little more potent, but actually growable indoors, move up to pan cyans. I hope this advice help, and I hope your next attempt give you great success.


--------------------



Google "Earthly Info" to find my mushroom recipes. #1 baby.. yeah...

WARNING: All messages posted under this profile
are actually algorithmicly generated by an AI computer program.  No truth or actual events are being generated, and as a result cannot be investigated for thier validity.  (message 2345433)

Edited by Glacier Creek (10/24/07 02:43 PM)

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Glacier Creek]
    #7555301 - 10/24/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Glacier Creek said:
Ok, where to begin.
First of all, and this is not meant to be rude in any way, but I have to assume from your attempt details so far that you probably did not prepare your jars correctly to begin with.  Assuming for arguments sake that you did, your jars are probably not worth attempting to salvage at this point.  Even if you did finally get them to colonize, they would most likely contam very badly by the time you got around to your first flush, let alone a second or third.  My suggestion: START OVER CORRECTLY.  If you are looking for a very simplified methed then check out the pf tek.  If you are looking for a little less simplified, but much higher yeilding and potent tek take a look at my popcorn to manure tek for noobies.  Here ----> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7547314/an/0/page/0

I am hoping that when you said P. cyans you did not mean "Psilocybe"  If this is what you are attempting, you will not be able to get these to fruit indoors unless you have a very extensive refrigeration, and exact condition situation going on, and judging from the innability to follow the simple cubensis methods listed on this website, you are not going to be able to meet all the requirement, and luck, it would take to actually fruit one or two cyans indoors.  However, if you get your jars of cyan spores to a fully colonized state, you can add it to a bag of soaked hardwood chips, such as alder, maple, ect, and then transfer those colonized chips to any shaded pine resin free place outdoors, and in a year you will have an annual fruiting cyan patch. 
    If you were talking about "Panaeolus" which I am assuming is what you mean, then you are still going to need to spawn these to actual manure in order to get them to spawn.  For a first attempt at doing this I suggest my simple method:

Shred 10 cups of horse manure very finely into a large bucket of water.
Add a 1/4 cup of bleach  and 1/4 cup hydrated lime  to the water, mix and let set overnight.

The next day pour through a collander and press the manure down with a small plate to squeeze all extra water.

Set the manure aside, it does not need pastuerized yet.

Add 10 cups of vermiculite  to a large bowl and stir in 2 cups of brown rice flour.

Moisten the vermiculite  and brown rice flour to field capacity  using regular or distilled water.

Combine the BRF/verm  with the horse manure and mix it up really well. You want to evenly distribute the brown rice flour.

Now all you have to do is cover with punched hole lid, and tin foil, and pressure cook for one hour. 

Remove your jars when cooled, remove foil, inoculate.

Incubate at 81-84 degrees until fully colonized.

Once colonized, remove foil from jar, and case.

A good casing for this is cactus mix and verm 50/50 pasturized at 170-180 degreese for one hour, then strained and cooled. 

Put 1/4 inch of this on the top of your now open jar, cover with new foil with two small holes punched in for air exchange, and place entire jar into fruiting chamber.

After three days, remove foil, and mist casing ONLY when dry, and ONLY until pins form. 

Once you see pins do not mist again. 

    Again, I am not trying to crush your hopes of pulling this off in any way.  I am just saying that from a viewpoint of work hours, materials, and effort, it would be more cost effective for you to get a basic method from this website, and start over, but this time actually follow the methods.  Only grow cubes first, then if you want to move onto something a little more potent, but actually growable indoors, move up to pan cyans.  I hope this advice help, and I hope your next attempt give you great success.




:thumbup: Nicely put!


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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Invisibledeucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,613
Loc: UK
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7555545 - 10/24/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

>I am hoping that when you said P. cyans you did not mean "Psilocybe"<

oopsh... forgot about "pans" i was assuming "psilocibe" when i alluded to the woodlover TEK.oh well.
seeing as the OP has a "pan cyan" syringe it wouldn't hurt to read up here>
http://www.shroomery.org/8421/Panaeolus-cyanescens-FAQ
Shroomery - Panaeolus cyanescens FAQ

that woodlover (azure) TEK is still worth a look.:grin:


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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OfflinePentahedral
Stranger
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Glacier Creek]
    #7556453 - 10/24/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Glacier Creek said:
Ok, where to begin.
First of all, and this is not meant to be rude in any way, but I have to assume from your attempt details so far that you probably did not prepare your jars correctly to begin with. Assuming for arguments sake that you did, your jars are probably not worth attempting to salvage at this point. Even if you did finally get them to colonize, they would most likely contam very badly by the time you got around to your first flush, let alone a second or third. My suggestion: START OVER CORRECTLY. If you are looking for a very simplified methed then check out the pf tek. If you are looking for a little less simplified, but much higher yeilding and potent tek take a look at my popcorn to manure tek for noobies. Here ----> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7547314/an/0/page/0

I am hoping that when you said P. cyans you did not mean "Psilocybe" If this is what you are attempting, you will not be able to get these to fruit indoors unless you have a very extensive refrigeration, and exact condition situation going on, and judging from the innability to follow the simple cubensis methods listed on this website, you are not going to be able to meet all the requirement, and luck, it would take to actually fruit one or two cyans indoors. However, if you get your jars of cyan spores to a fully colonized state, you can add it to a bag of soaked hardwood chips, such as alder, maple, ect, and then transfer those colonized chips to any shaded pine resin free place outdoors, and in a year you will have an annual fruiting cyan patch.
If you were talking about "Panaeolus" which I am assuming is what you mean, then you are still going to need to spawn these to actual manure in order to get them to spawn. For a first attempt at doing this I suggest my simple method:

Shred 10 cups of horse manure very finely into a large bucket of water.
Add a 1/4 cup of bleach and 1/4 cup hydrated lime to the water, mix and let set overnight.

The next day pour through a collander and press the manure down with a small plate to squeeze all extra water.

Set the manure aside, it does not need pastuerized yet.

Add 10 cups of vermiculite to a large bowl and stir in 2 cups of brown rice flour.

Moisten the vermiculite and brown rice flour to field capacity using regular or distilled water.

Combine the BRF/verm with the horse manure and mix it up really well. You want to evenly distribute the brown rice flour.

Now all you have to do is cover with punched hole lid, and tin foil, and pressure cook for one hour.

Remove your jars when cooled, remove foil, inoculate.

Incubate at 81-84 degrees until fully colonized.

Once colonized, remove foil from jar, and case.

A good casing for this is cactus mix and verm 50/50 pasturized at 170-180 degreese for one hour, then strained and cooled.

Put 1/4 inch of this on the top of your now open jar, cover with new foil with two small holes punched in for air exchange, and place entire jar into fruiting chamber.

After three days, remove foil, and mist casing ONLY when dry, and ONLY until pins form.

Once you see pins do not mist again.

Again, I am not trying to crush your hopes of pulling this off in any way. I am just saying that from a viewpoint of work hours, materials, and effort, it would be more cost effective for you to get a basic method from this website, and start over, but this time actually follow the methods. Only grow cubes first, then if you want to move onto something a little more potent, but actually growable indoors, move up to pan cyans. I hope this advice help, and I hope your next attempt give you great success.




Thanks, I will follow that when I make bulk substrate. It looks like I should be able to find a greenhouse so that's the route I'll be going if I don't jump into a monotub, which I think would be a bad idea and a waste of money in the end. I'll follow one of the posted teks for making cow manure/straw substrate and hopefully spawn then case the jars.

It might be worth noting that I got a PC for the second round of jars, hopefully getting a more sterile jar.

edit: and I did mean Pan S.

Edited by Pentahedral (10/24/07 06:53 PM)

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InvisibleGlacier Creek
The Chef
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 384
Loc: PNW
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Pentahedral]
    #7557015 - 10/24/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Don't give up my friend. Now that you have a PC you are in buisness. Try to take notes of everything you do, and you will develope a smooth running system after a little time. It is all a matter of learning to use the things that we have around us, to improvise our own little versions of everyone else's ideas that have gone before us. There is nothing wrong with taking someone else word that something may be a bad idea. More than likely they know from screwing it up the first couple of times as well. Why not save ourselves the trouble? Just as it is ok to utilize things you are accustomed to or have easier access to just as long as you pay attention to what fails, and why. Being enlightened from your own creation is well worth the trouble, and in the end, is about as spiritual as things on this planet get.

G.C.


--------------------



Google "Earthly Info" to find my mushroom recipes. #1 baby.. yeah...

WARNING: All messages posted under this profile
are actually algorithmicly generated by an AI computer program.  No truth or actual events are being generated, and as a result cannot be investigated for thier validity.  (message 2345433)

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OfflinePentahedral
Stranger
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Help, some design and misc. questions! [Re: Glacier Creek]
    #7558931 - 10/25/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Glacier Creek said:
Don't give up my friend.  Now that you have a PC you are in buisness.  Try to take notes of everything you do, and you will develope a smooth running system after a little time.  It is all a matter of learning to use the things that we have around us, to improvise our own little versions of everyone else's ideas that have gone before us.  There is nothing wrong with taking someone else word that something may be a bad idea.  More than likely they know from screwing it up the first couple of times as well.  Why not save ourselves the trouble?  Just as it is ok to utilize things you are accustomed to or have easier access to just as long as you pay attention to what fails, and why.  Being enlightened from your own creation is well worth the trouble, and in the end, is about as spiritual as things on this planet get. 

G.C.




Thanks for the support, in the end all you can do it keep trying and changing things so it works :smile:

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