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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please - UPDATED
    #7557035 - 10/24/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Someone in another thread mentioned using bamboo to fruit mushrooms from (for some reason or another...I'm tired, sorry!). I've been thinking about that and wanted to kick some ideas around with you all, and also see what new dimensions can be added, or ideas thrown in.

I'm thinking of doing this for kits that would be sold to consumers fruiting the mushrooms in their kitchens or something like that. I've made kits like everyone else before, using plastic bags, but I think there is a lot of room for improvement here.

Yes of course costs are dis-proportionately higher, but hopefully not to the point of removing profitability.

I think it would be neat if the consumer could water the kits like a plant to some extent (yes, I know mushrooms are NOT plants, thanks). Of course they can mist, but I don't know, something like how people here stick those drinking straws into cakes, and then feed water into the cakes through the tube. Any ideas on how to do this? The diameter of the bamboo I'll be using will be either 4", 5", or 6" so there may really not be any need for anything internal, so this may be a really bad idea.

The Bamboo can be bought in 10-20 foot lengths. The prices for bamboo poles that I can source locally cost about $40 for the 10 foot length 4" diameter, $50 for the 5" and $70 for the 6-7"

I figure the top opening can be used in some manner to create a filter after the spawned substrate is filled into the bamboo. Any ideas on how to do this and have it look nice, or natural? It will basically be working like a filter patch bag. Substrate at the bottom, then an air space, and then the filter. Holes can be drilled for fruiting. I was thinking the micropore tape can be placed over the holes o limit exposure to contaminants. This could either be done inside the bamboo, before it is filled, but I wonder about moisture just wicking contaminants through the filter material. The other option i was thinking of, would be to place the micopore tape on the outside of the holes, and leave it on for colonization. I could either take it off to bring them to market, or leave them on for the market, and part of the instructions would be to remove the tape. I know the mushrooms will grow through it (or think they would), but just for looks, it be nicer without tape visible.

How many holes would you drill? I don't think it'll go anaerobic with the filter at the top and a few fruiting holes. But how many holes is enough, or would look nice?

Okay lots of questions there, so pick what interests you and share anything you may think. Thanks all!
Light and Love,
JD


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


Edited by Jeremy_Davis (10/26/07 01:37 PM)


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7557052 - 10/24/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, and before I forget, what other decorative containers would you think would be workable? Even if I had to mold it and have it custom casted, that would be no problem, go crazy. (within limits, I figure mass producing a bunch of containers would help defray some of the costs). Also if I go that route, I would try to use a plastic that can be composted (I think they make a corn-based plastic, or something like that...), or is environmentally friendly in some way and can be recycled or buried.


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7557786 - 10/25/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hi Jeremy,
i'm with you!

I believe it's necessary to sell the bamboos completly colonized because I'm quite sure bamboos has got an higher number of bacteria than other plants (they've a lot of water into the fibres).

As you know the bamboos are structurated in horizontal cells, between every cell there's a sort of wall. This wall should be the bottom of every container and should be drilled (people could add too much water and the water in excess could generates bacterial contaminations)..then add some geolite(cheaper than perlite) on the bottom (but you have to pre-boil it), then add the substrate with a high rate of spawn (to prevent contaminations from the bamboo) and finally put some vermiculite (but you should try with geolite too).

Another solution could be to put at the center of the bamboo a pvc pipe a lot driller to prevent a perfect gas exchange.

The bamboo is wood..so also this could be eaten by the mycelium. IMO the bamboo must be used just fresh.

Another funny container could be a pumpkin (imagine a beautiful orange  pumpkin with oysters that grow from it!)

Keep us updated.

Fabio :thumbup:


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #7557954 - 10/25/07 04:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i always though maybe developing a low tech but more attractive fruiting tent for a mushroom kit would help sell. some kind of inexpensive "knock down" case with clear sides of plexiglass or acrylic. All the indoor mushroom kits ive seen send a plastic bag with holes in it for an indoor fruiting tent....effective but hardly aesthetic. A more attractive and permanent solution might give the consume incentive to buy more kits....one can easily see the advantage of making your kit and your fruiting chamber an odd dimension so only your kits will fit inside......


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:greys:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: greys]
    #7558333 - 10/25/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure what this  bird nest was made out of. Mrs Rabbit found it at a craft store and I stole it from her as soon as she got home. It was good for a few laughs though. :wink:
RR


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7558519 - 10/25/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

they charge 50 dollars for a piece of grass?!?!?!


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Cheezit]
    #7558843 - 10/25/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cheezit said:
they charge 50 dollars for a piece of grass?!?!?!




Yes, you can get the small diameters bamboo very cheaply, but anything over about 3 inches I'm told is something very special. Actually they are charging $130 for a 20 foot length of 7" diameter bamboo, but that was about the best price I could find...at least locally, I don't even want to think about shipping it


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7559403 - 10/25/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ahahah, Mrs Rabbit wasn't angry?

However great Roger :thumbup:, i hope a day to show you some crazier experiments :cuckoo:

Fabio :mushroom2:


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Offlinechojin
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #7559899 - 10/25/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't tried growing any mushrooms yet, but I've thought about using bamboo with a filler too. Although, I wasn't thinking about how aesthetically pleasing it could be. I really like your idea.

How about coating the inside of the bamboo with wax to further guard against contaminants?

I'm just going to throw some ideas out there. How cost efficient they'd be, I don't know. But, they'd be cool

Bamboo kits with carved, and painted, mushroom caps placed on top of them.

Kits set in natural scenes.

Bamboo always evokes images of Asian scenery in my mind. You could set little clay figurines around them in a bonzai-like pot.


Go crazy with it. You could do something really unique


Edited by chojin (10/25/07 04:49 PM)


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: chojin]
    #7560177 - 10/25/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think pvc would be more economical. Maybe not esthetically pleasing though.


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #7560239 - 10/25/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FreeSporePrints said:
I believe it's necessary to sell the bamboos completely colonized because I'm quite sure bamboos has got an higher number of bacteria than other plants (they've a lot of water into the fibers).




What's up man?  :toast:

I agree it's best to colonize under controlled conditions and sell the kits as ready-to-fruit. Along those lines I was wondering tonight if it would better to colonize in plastic bags as usual, and as long as the bag is pure white it could be filled in to a bamboo (what should I call the empty bamboos...hmmm...shells?) shell. That way I'm not selling contam'd kits without being able to see the contams...I wouldn't want to just shove the bag in the bamboo, but actually do like a crumble-n-case (without the casing tho :grin:) and break apart the colonized block and then fill it into the bamboo shell. would I still pack it tightly? Then it could recolonize itself and fruit from the holes. What do you all think of that idea?

Quote:


As you know the bamboos are structured in horizontal cells, between every cell there's a sort of wall. This wall should be the bottom of every container and should be drilled (people could add too much water and the water in excess could generates bacterial contaminations)..then add some geolite(cheaper than perlite) on the bottom (but you have to pre-boil it), then add the substrate with a high rate of spawn (to prevent contaminations from the bamboo) and finally put some vermiculite (but you should try with geolite too).




Damn dude, that's a great idea. Or set of ideas.

Quote:


The bamboo is wood..so also this could be eaten by the mycelium. IMO the bamboo must be used just fresh.




I'm actually wondering, but I doubt the mycelium will actually break down the bamboo container in the two months or so it is in there. If it does though, that'd be cool too. I can market them as self-biodegrading :grin: I'm not sure how long the bamboo will stay fresh and green for. If it will last two months, then it'd definitely be the way to go, as it is naturally holding in it's own moisture.


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: chojin]
    #7560267 - 10/25/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

chojin said:
How about coating the inside of the bamboo with wax to further guard against contaminants? 




I was thinking this exact thing. Does anyone know of an inexpensive wax or similar that can be sprayed on? It has to be non-toxic. OMRI or organic certified would be optimal, but I can do that research myself once I know what to look for.

Quote:


Bamboo kits with carved, and painted, mushroom caps placed on top of them.

Kits set in natural scenes.

Bamboo always evokes images of Asian scenery in my mind.  You could set little clay figurines around them in a bonzai-like pot.




I can totally see all those ideas. I was already thinking of making the differently priced kits based on diameter, but now you've got me thinking more about pricing also on artwork as well. Make some high end stuff, not too many, but some. The project does have to be somewhat cost efficient, but there will always be people to buy the interesting ones. Also, I'd imagine I may be able to re-use the bamboo if it is not sold during the first flush.

Thanks! :mushroom2:


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7560272 - 10/25/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Okay now can you all help me design the lid or top of the kit? I'm pushing ideas back and forth in my head on how to do this without making the bamboo look like it is wearing a nurses cap.

I'm interested in Fabio's idea of using perlite/geolite on the tops as well.


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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Offlinegmuralid
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7561047 - 10/25/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I could help you design this, all you gotta do is add credit for design of the product on your website or whatever.

For the tops you could just use another bamboo of larger diameter. All you have to do is make it so the node becomes the lid.

I can sketch up some stuff and send if you are interested. Maybe I can just upload the sketches here, send me a pm and lemme know and I can start some stuff.

I really like the ideas. Also for the inner sealing, how about looking at beeswax? Anyone think that could work?


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7561235 - 10/25/07 11:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hello Jeremy  :rockon:

Yes adding later the substrate colonized could be better but you've to use dried bamboos (in this way you can paint them but they lost the idea of freshness, that in my case is important).

I'm glad you like the top idea but i've said vermiculite or geolite for the top, i'll discard perlite, it better use it to keep some moisture then for gas exchange.

The wax suggestion is good in my opinion..but in this case you have to use dried bamboo(if no the wax will not sticks to the bamboo)...You could spray it to save a lot of money...spray it when hot...but i really don't know how to spray something of hot that changes structure when becomes cold.

About the lid..why to make a lid?

Fabio :grenade:


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7561978 - 10/26/07 07:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jeremy_Davis said:
Someone in another thread mentioned using bamboo to fruit mushrooms from (for some reason or another...I'm tired, sorry!).

Hi Jeremy,
It was Worowa's thread 'Concrete and Ceramic' fruiting containers.
Owl mentioned bamboo.

I think fresh cut would be best.
If you have room you could grow some really good ones in Florida.
eg.
Dendrocalamus asper 'Betung Hitam'- black culms up to 8" dia. w/ white bands at the nodes and occasional deep green longitudinal stripes at internodes

D.latiflorus cv. 'Mei Nung' -green culms w/ cream/white stripes irregularly along internodes.

Bambusa vulgaris var. vittata Golden-yellow culms w/ green stripes. Although not a running bamboo, the clumps of this species tend to spread a bit

There are heaps more I could recommend, but these would have a high visual appeal.
The first two species in the right conditions can easily get to 60' high after 6-8yrs after planting ,and have delicious edible shoots.
with a few clumps of bamboo you could try growing bamboo mushroom
Dictyophora indusiata (Phallus indusiatus) as a bit of a challenge.:)


Bamboo is the ultimate renewable resource, but usually used where labour is cheap.
It is expensive to buy and is often treated with insecticides and fungicides.
I thing the best way to find out what works is to try it.
Putting crumbled, colonized substrate into fresh cut bamboo sections sounds like a good start to see what it looks like.
It should all knit itself back together fairly quickly I'd think.
I like the idea of the bamboo being consumed by the fungi.
Cheers,
Speedy


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: gmuralid]
    #7562240 - 10/26/07 09:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gmuralid said:
I could help you design this, all you gotta do is add credit for design of the product on your website or whatever.




Done. :hug: I have no trouble giving credit where credit is due. Especially for people selflessly offering to help ME out on  a project!

Quote:


For the tops you could just use another bamboo of larger diameter. All you have to do is make it so the node becomes the lid.

I can sketch up some stuff and send if you are interested. Maybe I can just upload the sketches here, send me a pm and lemme know and I can start some stuff.





Damn, nice idea. I can actually see it. You know that would be very expensive I believe to pull off though. But let's keep working. What about using maybe a cut foam or something that can be fit into the top, but still just below the surface? I don't know. I have to be aware of costs, and sacrificing a large diameter bamboo just for the nodes is going to be cost-intensive. The costs of the container node alone will be about 3-7 dollars depending on diameter. So it would more than double to use a cut node as a top. But awesome idea!

Also, what do you think of this spin-off on your idea?
Making concentric circles cut out of progressively smaller diameter bamboo. Cut the bamboo poles into rings that are only about 1 inch or less in length. Then fit smaller rings in until there is a small hole in the middle. Filter goes in the middle hole, and under the other rings in some manner (but hidden underneath them).

It seems like I couild make a ton of these "ring-tops" from a 5 or 6 progressively smaller bamboo poles...

Quote:


I really like the ideas. Also for the inner sealing, how about looking at beeswax? Anyone think that could work?



not sure on the costs of beeswax, but it'd definitely be organic/natural-friendly


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #7562411 - 10/26/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FreeSporePrints said:
Yes adding later the substrate colonized could be better but you've to use dried bamboos (in this way you can paint them but they lost the idea of freshness, that in my case is important).




I'm liking the idea better and better about the fresh bamboo, but honestly, I DOUBT I can find it fresh here, it seems like a ll the large diameter bamboo is coming from out of the country. I don't know though since the poster above says it can grow that big in 6 years. That seems like I may find it, but I'll go down southwest to the agricultural areas surrounding Miami on the weekend and talk to the local growers. See what's up.

Quote:


I'm glad you like the top idea but I've said vermiculite or geolite for the top, I'll discard perlite, it better use it to keep some moisture then for gas exchange.




Whoops! :foreheadslap: Yeah I must've mentally substituted perlite for vermiculite and geolite in my mind I cannot get anything except for extremely fine vermiculite here. Coarse is impossible to find unless I go online. I haven't ever seen geolite, but I haven't looked either, so I'll have to find out.

Quote:


The wax suggestion is good in my opinion..but in this case you have to use dried bamboo(if no the wax will not sticks to the bamboo)...You could spray it to save a lot of money...spray it when hot...but i really don't know how to spray something of hot that changes structure when becomes cold.




Good points. I hadn't thought about spraying hot wax :rolleyes:
Well I think I was wondering if there is any kind of sealing wax that can be sprayed on...actually what about this;
http://www.pumpkinfresh.com/
I think for pumpkins it has to be sprayed on every day (yes I am an amateur pumpkin carver this time of year, it's awesome fun, and I have a three year old who totally trips out over my Batman/Sponge Bob/Yu-Gi-Oh pumpkins!), so I do not know if it works for what we want. I believe it is actually a fungicide (Yikes!) so it may actually mess up the project. but something like a spray sealant that is non-toxic bio-degradable, and all that :grin:
Any ideas? (on sprays, I've noted the beeswax suggestion above)


Quote:


About the lid..why to make a lid?




Well, for several reasons, first I was thinking of using it for gas exchange while colonizing.

It would look odd without it I think, especially as nothing is really happening on the tops.

Also to keep out contams, especially if it is not sealed in a plastic bag or something within the bamboo shell...


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7562966 - 10/26/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'll go down southwest to the agricultural areas surrounding Miami on the weekend and talk to the local growers. See what's up.




Try to ask to Japanese associations if they can help you or if they can find an importer for you (but the Yen is really high for the dollar so i suggest to find local growers)
The thing that make me thinks is this: the bamboo you buy are the dead bamboo of the bamboo wood..i bet nobody will cut fresh ones, except in Japan (they have real woods of bamboos!)


Quote:

I haven't ever seen geolite, but I haven't looked either, so I'll have to find out.




Go to the garden center, they have at 99%, because it was used for the hydroponic cultivations, than also as media to fill the pots.


Quote:

http://www.pumpkinfresh.com/




Exactly, some kind of fungicide..i will not use it! Halloween pumpkins are not eaten, mushrooms yes!

Fabio

ps. dried coconouts


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Using Bamboo and other decorative containers for fruiting - ideas wanted please [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #7563434 - 10/26/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

UPDATE

Well here is the response I got from the company I was going to go see tomorrow - DAMN :mad2:


Jeremy the poles are treated with kerosene and a  chemical pyrethrine. You need raw bamboo sorry I cant help with that
.

So I guess Fabio was right all along. Now I have to try to find local growers of raw bamboo that actually have these large diameter sizes, and also learn how long it stays green after being cut.

Also maybe this sends me back to some kind of decorative container. I figure the way to do this would be to decide on an optimal shape and size, decide on the visual aspects, and see if they can be sent individually wrapped or sealed plastic to keep them mostly clean. Order a bunch and have them manufactured. Try to keep costs under $2.00 per each container. Should be workable. Especially if I have them made in enviro-friendly type material.


--------------------
Jeremy Davis
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization, Inc.
Check out the ECHO mushroom blog page to see our lab, growing facility, and more-www.echotech.org/greta


Edited by Jeremy_Davis (10/26/07 01:53 PM)


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