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Invisibledutchmushroom
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anarchy
    #7553605 - 10/24/07 02:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i know alot of people seems to think that if america went into anarchy and the government collapsed and was no more, that we would just get attacked and takin over by some crazy country like north korea or china or so stupid middle eastern country,

but i dont think so, those fuckin alkeda (sp?) motherfucking terrerist' think they are crazy, lol they wouldint even hold a match to some of the crazy ass americans,

shit if there was no government and no police then we would be able to buy what ever we want, i would like to see bin laden (or anyone for that matter) try to take over the US with all are newly purchased rocket lounchers stuck up his ass,


this was just a thought bouncing around in my brain, thought i would share,


peace out Dm


--------------------
"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand says: don't you see? Gotta make it some how, on the dreams you still believe, Don't give it up, you've got an empty cup, only love can fill, only love can fill" < Grateful Dead!

The bus came by and I got on, and thats when it all began


GROWLIGHT KIT, 250w HPS Digital ballast, + Enhanced Spectrum bulb and Reflector Sale Or Trade!
     

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: anarchy [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #7553609 - 10/24/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I would be more worried about being taken over by a group within your own country. This would certainly happen, thats why anarchy dosent work, theres always a group of people smart enough and power crazed enough to band together and take everything over.

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InvisibleLosAngelesGraff
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Re: anarchy [Re: DimensionX]
    #7553626 - 10/24/07 03:09 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

anarchy?

yes, one please.


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InvisibleIndividual
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Re: anarchy [Re: LosAngelesGraff]
    #7553654 - 10/24/07 03:43 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Anarchy would be awesome if people would be wise enough to follow the ten commands.


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THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY <---                                               


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: anarchy [Re: Individual]
    #7553691 - 10/24/07 04:40 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

theirs just 2 many muppets and 2 many rabbits in the us of a


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OfflineGill


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Re: anarchy [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7553925 - 10/24/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'd take an anarchy over the shit system we have in place at the present. It would make things more interesting for this country, at the very least.

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Invisiblememes
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Re: anarchy [Re: Gill]
    #7553928 - 10/24/07 07:22 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

we'd be so fucked without our government pushing billions of dollars into the economy and regulating every aspect of our monetary system.

the government plays an ESSENTIAL role in the 'free market' system. without it we'd be fucked - bottom line

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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: anarchy [Re: memes]
    #7553950 - 10/24/07 07:42 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Asians and Jihad mother fuckers ain't got shit on us white Americans, they'll blow someone up, I'll eat a bitch.

Seriously, who would want to actually try to invade the US? A fucking dumbass, the last thing any one would want to deal with is a bunch of American's who can't sit around and do what they want.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7553973 - 10/24/07 07:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Anarchy is just total warfare until one group ends up on top. You can see it in action around the world, its not preety.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #7554498 - 10/24/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

but i dont think so, those fuckin alkeda (sp?) motherfucking terrerist' think they are crazy, lol they wouldint even hold a match to some of the crazy ass americans,

shit if there was no government and no police then we would be able to buy what ever we want, i would like to see bin laden (or anyone for that matter) try to take over the US with all are newly purchased rocket lounchers stuck up his ass,




A bunch of armed but disorganized citizens is no match for ANY national military force.

Like somebody said, the real threat would be other locals.

Some of you guys seem to have some pretty romantic notions about anarchy. As asinine as they are sometimes, governments keep quality of life much higher than it would be if we were all fending for ourselves. Anarchy is horrible. Greed and violence would rule everything.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7554681 - 10/24/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

all governments are evil. they just fight for their own existence and position.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555014 - 10/24/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

all governments are evil. they just fight for their own existence and position.




You don't think that's a bit narrow minded? If we lived under anarchy don't you think anyone would be fighting for anything but their own existence and position?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555034 - 10/24/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

isn't THAT narrow-minded? that once no formal punishment exists from someone greater than an individual like The Man or God or whatever, then all humans will break into uncontrolled violence? man must realize survival is dependent of the person next to you and that you're not alone in the world, as the government tries to show you.

this is what any government brainwashes you into thinking: You Need Us. you need the lawyers and the police and the tax collectors so you could live in comfort and peace and We Will Take Care Of The Rest. which is major bullshit.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: anarchy [Re: DimensionX]
    #7555070 - 10/24/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
I would be more worried about being taken over by a group within your own country. This would certainly happen, thats why anarchy dosent work, theres always a group of people smart enough and power crazed enough to band together and take everything over.




Precisely. Anyone who thinks that Al-Qaeda is interested in taking over our contry has no idea what Al-Qaeda is trying to accomplish. Make no mistake. If there were no police fore all of a sudden, it would become necessary for people to form one. Anyone who thinks you can have a peaceful society without enforcers is not acknowledging the reality that surrounds us. Society on any level depends upon people who are at the ready to bring those who threaten peace under control. Even in outlaw society this is a given.

There are dozens of ways to picture anarchy, but if you are picturing a total lack of protection against violence, than violence will happen.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555126 - 10/24/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


isn't THAT narrow-minded? that once no formal punishment exists from someone greater than an individual like The Man or God or whatever, then all humans will break into uncontrolled violence?




Governments do much more than enforce laws. They organize transportation and communications infrastructure, health care and education.

Trust me, without some sort of legal accountability, human behavior degenerates very quickly into uncontrolled violence. Why depend on the person next to me when I can kill him and take what he has?

Quote:

this is what any government brainwashes you into thinking: You Need Us




Well we do, as long as you want to live in a country with roads, schools, hospitals, and all of the other amenities that have made survival a piece of cake for those of us lucky enough to be born in developed countries. I am not brainwashed just because I think those things are helpful.

Quote:


man must realize survival is dependent of the person next to you and that you're not alone in the world




I have news for you; man has already realized that, and that is precisely why we have governments. Believe it or not, governments are the result of humans pooling their resources and intellects to help each other live a better life than they would be able to procure for themselves. The systems we've created aren't perfect (how could they be?), and those imperfections seem to be the 'evil' you despise so much.

If anarchy appeals to you, there are plenty of places in the world with little to no law enforcement or social services. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555141 - 10/24/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

WC do you even know what anarchism is?


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555188 - 10/24/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

anarchism

1. Any theory or doctrine that proposes the absence of government in all forms.
2. Specifically, a political philosophical belief that all forms of involuntary rule or government are undesirable or unnecessary and that society could function without a ruler or involuntary government (state).


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555193 - 10/24/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you did not answer. try again.


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OfflineYeagerBomb
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Re: anarchy [Re: memes]
    #7555196 - 10/24/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
we'd be so fucked without our government pushing billions of dollars into the economy and regulating every aspect of our monetary system.

the government plays an ESSENTIAL role in the 'free market' system. without it we'd be fucked - bottom line




Yep

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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555201 - 10/24/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I know if i would get away with it, and I saw a nig with a bunch of crack, I'd cap his ass and take that shit.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555215 - 10/24/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yes I did.

I am not going to define it again. Why don't you describe for us your vision of life without involuntary government?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7555218 - 10/24/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rustifer said:
I know if i would get away with it, and I saw a nig with a bunch of crack, I'd cap his ass and take that shit.




that's why you would need voluntary militia in an anarchistic society: to keep criminals like you at bay. people would band together because of the common understanding that helping each other pays off.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555225 - 10/24/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:

that's why you would need voluntary militia in an anarchistic society: to keep criminals like you at bay. people would band together because of the common understanding that helping each other pays off.




What if he's in the voluntary militia and he does that?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555234 - 10/24/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

And who decides if it is permissible to take someone's crack or not?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555237 - 10/24/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

Rustifer said:
I know if i would get away with it, and I saw a nig with a bunch of crack, I'd cap his ass and take that shit.




that's why you would need voluntary militia in an anarchistic society: to keep criminals like you at bay. people would band together because of the common understanding that helping each other pays off.




Don't call me a criminal because if there was no one to enforce anything I'd do what the fuck I want. Hell yah I would band together lots of Texas rednecks and we'd get guns and kill people with shit we want.

That's just the way shit would be.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7555243 - 10/24/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rustifer said:

That's just the way shit would be.




Exactly. If there are no laws there are no criminals.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555247 - 10/24/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Yes I did.

I am not going to define it again. Why don't you describe for us your vision of life without involuntary government?




my vision of it would be as unromantic and realistic as possible, because all revolutions start with idealistic wishes and quickly become the same governmental types they tried to kill in the first place.

the rough idea would be to diminish the use of money and go back to the trade system: you-have-extra-pig-i-have-three-pairs-of-shoes-wanna-trade? money doesn't really exist and has no value except by the way of agreement. people should execute their abilities to best fit their skills: people who seem better at woodworking should be encouraged to work with wood, a person who has a way with words and has a good imagination should be encouraged to execute his/her skills at writing related areas and so on.

it wouldn't be a stupid "yeah let's go back to the dark age, we're all animals anyway and strenght equals might" bullshit. people should understand they should help their fellow man not because of profit and their own comfort but because we're all the same.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555263 - 10/24/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

b0red5tiff said:

that's why you would need voluntary militia in an anarchistic society: to keep criminals like you at bay. people would band together because of the common understanding that helping each other pays off.




What if he's in the voluntary militia and he does that?




if a person shoots and steals other persons shit that means he has no real life skills for survival except to take stuff by force. that leads to tyranny, where skilled and smart people are still needed and that leads to revolution, to overthrow the killers & bandits that live off the blood of others.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555269 - 10/24/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

Rustifer said:

That's just the way shit would be.




Exactly. If there are no laws there are no criminals.




that's childish.


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InvisibleKilroyMilosevik
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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7555282 - 10/24/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rustifer said:
I know if i would get away with it, and I saw a nig with a bunch of crack, I'd cap his ass and take that shit.




Obviously never lived in the inner city... this happens all the time, law enforcement or not. Hell a lot of the time the law is in on it. But you were probably being sarcastic?

Back on the topic... If America's government was to collapse, it wouldn't be too long that it would look something similar to many regions of Africa. Small political extremists and other militias constantly fighting for territory, the economy would be run by private arms dealers and drug cartels, and boundaries would be constantly changing. Not going to happen though... but it's interesting to think of all the chaos.


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-The door.
-The door is closed.
-Why is the door closed?
        *Gasps*
-Why DOES the door close!?

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555319 - 10/24/07 02:53 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

it wouldn't be a stupid "yeah let's go back to the dark age, we're all animals anyway and strenght equals might" bullshit. people should understand they should help their fellow man not because of profit and their own comfort but because we're all the same.




One look at your newspaper will tell you that human beings have obviously not reached that level of compassion yet. Do you really believe that collective epiphany would happen suddenly if we reverted to a state of no government? What reason do you have to believe that people would be willing to co-operate enough to make that work?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineEssen
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555326 - 10/24/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Anarchy is a ridiculous concept, it relies on the intelligence and common sense of the average person, but unfortunately the average person is a fucking retard. It goes against human nature to live in a way that anarchy suggests, where there's no ruling authority, and small communities would have to be self-reliant. At some point a leader will step up, which has happened in every single communist government, which, from what I understand, follows a similar belief that with a little push from a government a community can become self-reliant and the need for a government will fade away. Without an authority to control and enforce a set regulation for conflict between parties, one party will naturally win dominance one way or another. And the way to that dominance is usually violence.

I wouldn't object to a little bit of temporary anarchy in this country, because the social values of the US are fucked and we could use a change. It's going to happen soon or a later and the sooner the better.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555330 - 10/24/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

because i'm willing to act like that even if i don't have any guarantee anyone else will.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555343 - 10/24/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anarchy is a ridiculous concept, it relies on the intelligence and common sense of the average person, but unfortunately the average person is a fucking retard.




thus it isn't ridiculous, but an ideal to strive for. to better yourself.

Quote:

It goes against human nature to live in a way that anarchy suggests




there is no human nature, just constant flowing and evolution.

Quote:

I wouldn't object to a little bit of temporary anarchy in this country, because the social values of the US are fucked and we could use a change. It's going to happen soon or a later and the sooner the better.




i agree.


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OfflineEssen
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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555348 - 10/24/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Yes I did.

I am not going to define it again. Why don't you describe for us your vision of life without involuntary government?




my vision of it would be as unromantic and realistic as possible, because all revolutions start with idealistic wishes and quickly become the same governmental types they tried to kill in the first place.

the rough idea would be to diminish the use of money and go back to the trade system: you-have-extra-pig-i-have-three-pairs-of-shoes-wanna-trade? money doesn't really exist and has no value except by the way of agreement. people should execute their abilities to best fit their skills: people who seem better at woodworking should be encouraged to work with wood, a person who has a way with words and has a good imagination should be encouraged to execute his/her skills at writing related areas and so on.

it wouldn't be a stupid "yeah let's go back to the dark age, we're all animals anyway and strenght equals might" bullshit. people should understand they should help their fellow man not because of profit and their own comfort but because we're all the same.




You're forgetting that people like to fuck other people over. And that leads to violence. And what you're saying IS a romantic concept. Because the world doesn't work like that. It the wild, a beast has to kill another beast in order to survive. A human is similar. A human has to fuck over another human to live... comfortably.


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Edited by Essen (10/24/07 03:04 PM)

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: anarchy [Re: Essen]
    #7555358 - 10/24/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You're forgetting that people like to fuck other people over. And that leads to violence.




they do, i agree with you. it's just that i've had enough of it and i'm just sick of it and ask "how can i change that?" the answer is of course that i can't, i can only change myself.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555372 - 10/24/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing is stopping you from treating others with compassion, and leading by example in that respect. In fact, I think individuals demonstrating such compassion is the only thing that can save us from anarchy, and its inseparable cousin, widespread violence.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

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Re: anarchy [Re: DimensionX]
    #7555376 - 10/24/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
I would be more worried about being taken over by a group within your own country. This would certainly happen, thats why anarchy dosent work, theres always a group of people smart enough and power crazed enough to band together and take everything over.





there's also those of us smart enough to recognize that problem and handle it
according to the laws under this new non-government. Seriously, what do you
think it is that stops most people from righting a few wrongs




some laws are beneficial but other laws prevent justice from truly being served



no one can rise up and take over if there is impunity for 'crimes' that
better humanity. what would you be willing to do to protect yourself and

those you care about if you knew that there would be no consequence, no question
and very possibly some public recognition/reward

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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555388 - 10/24/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

Rustifer said:

That's just the way shit would be.




Exactly. If there are no laws there are no criminals.




that's childish.




If you think that's childish, then you're one naive little boy.

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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555415 - 10/24/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

Rustifer said:

That's just the way shit would be.




Exactly. If there are no laws there are no criminals.




that's childish.




No, it's the truth. What is a 'crime' is only defined by laws that are in place. When there is no law, no action can be objectively deemed a crime. That which is immoral or not can only be decided by personal opinion, which differs from person to person.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555456 - 10/24/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Anarchy shouldn't be seen as an alternative to government. It's the result of government, and is part of the cycle of rule over a mass of people. Government rules over a people, and eventually the government collapses or the people fuck themselves. And then there's anarchy until a new form of government develops. Which eventually falls one way or another.

People who desire collapse, change, and to start over are respectable. But people who desire the chaotic stage in between the transition are foolish. That stage is the womb from which the new government is formed through the actions of people, and is the point which determines the new government. When planning to have a child, you don't anticipate pregnancy, but the child itself.


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Edited by Essen (10/24/07 03:28 PM)

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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555466 - 10/24/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

No, it's the truth. What is a 'crime' is only defined by laws that are in place. When there is no law, no action can be objectively deemed a crime. That which is immoral or not can only be decided by personal opinion, which differs from person to person.




that sounds like shrugging off responsibility. and twisting around the words to change the meaning to suit your aims.


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Edited by Bridgeburner (10/24/07 03:27 PM)

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Re: anarchy [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #7555468 - 10/24/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Anarchy only works in a society without sociopaths.

Evil is among us, anarchy is doomed and will only generate even more sociopaths. Then you will have good groups vs evil groups, then you have alliances of groups and then you're back with a government again.

Once you realize, truly realize, that Evil people exist, then your worldview changes. Anarchy would be hell with those around.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Asante]
    #7555483 - 10/24/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol evil exists? what's that?


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555512 - 10/24/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using the checklist devised by Emeritus Professor Robert Hare. He describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators[14][15] who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence[16][17][18] to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse".[19] "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony."[20]
Contents





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Re: anarchy [Re: Asante]
    #7555533 - 10/24/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

that's not "evilness" if that's what you're trying to say. it's an illness.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555550 - 10/24/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

No, it's the truth. What is a 'crime' is only defined by laws that are in place. When there is no law, no action can be objectively deemed a crime. That which is immoral or not can only be decided by personal opinion, which differs from person to person.




that sounds like shrugging off responsibility. and twisting around the words to change the meaning to suit your aims.





He's not twisting anything around, I think you're just stupid. And where does responsibility come in to play with this? I have no responsibility to anyone but myself, to acquire things I desire or need. If there's no threat to my freedom for my actions, and someone has something I want, I would forcefully take it from them.

I'm not the only selfish person on this planet, I actually believe that the majority of the population share this quality with me.

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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555572 - 10/24/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Its a medical approach to what they used to explain with demons and werewolves.

A psychopath isn't mentally ill in my view. They are just marching to a different drum than most of us.

"Intraspecies predators" says enough, but feel free to websearch the shit out of it. These people are at the root of many of the biggest problems of humanity. And anarchy would be their wildest dream come true.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Asante]
    #7555633 - 10/24/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

He's not twisting anything around, I think you're just stupid. And where does responsibility come in to play with this? I have no responsibility to anyone but myself, to acquire things I desire or need. If there's no threat to my freedom for my actions, and someone has something I want, I would forcefully take it from them.




you should look up satanism.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555692 - 10/24/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Actually I'm atheist. I still have a conscience.

I just know how people are, unlike you. And I am out in this world for myself. Someone like you would be sitting around saying why can't everyone just follow the 10 commandments and get along, until I come along with a gun, and take things from you. I would have prevented that from happening to myself in the first place, because that's just the way things are and you can't do shit about it.

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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7555701 - 10/24/07 04:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rustifer said:
Actually I'm atheist. I still have a conscience.

I just know how people are, unlike you. And I am out in this world for myself. Someone like you would be sitting around saying why can't everyone just follow the 10 commandments and get along, until I come along with a gun, and take things from you. I would have prevented that from happening to myself in the first place, because that's just the way things are and you can't do shit about it.




calling people stupid is gay. glad there's an ocean between me and you.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555725 - 10/24/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

No, it's the truth. What is a 'crime' is only defined by laws that are in place. When there is no law, no action can be objectively deemed a crime. That which is immoral or not can only be decided by personal opinion, which differs from person to person.




that sounds like shrugging off responsibility. and twisting around the words to change the meaning to suit your aims.




You completely misunderstand.

Look up crime and you will find: "an act committed in violation of the law."

If there are is no law, there can be no violations of the law. People can still do bad things, but they are not crimes.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555726 - 10/24/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

And I believe calling things gay is stupid. Maybe you should learn to go out and get your own like most people.

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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7555734 - 10/24/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
calling people stupid is gay. glad there's an ocean between me and you.




Calling things gay is stupid.

I couldn't resist. But really, gay is a mindless insult. It has no real meaning, and is a good indicator of stupidity.

Edit: damn he beat me...


--------------------

Edited by Essen (10/24/07 04:24 PM)

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Re: anarchy [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7555751 - 10/24/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Quote:

No, it's the truth. What is a 'crime' is only defined by laws that are in place. When there is no law, no action can be objectively deemed a crime. That which is immoral or not can only be decided by personal opinion, which differs from person to person.




that sounds like shrugging off responsibility. and twisting around the words to change the meaning to suit your aims.




You completely misunderstand.

Look up crime and you will find: "an act committed in violation of the law."

If there are is no law, there can be no violations of the law. People can still do bad things, but they are not crimes.




i agree.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7555772 - 10/24/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

see, i think you guys are mixing up anarchy, and anarchism. Anarchy is the absence of rulers. Anarchism is the absence of rulers in which the people make and abide by their own laws.

There is no way in hell that something like anarchism would EVER work on a scale as large as the united states, because we have too many stupid and irresponsible people in it.

You can have rules without rulers to enforce them. That is a fact. Rules are nothing more than a concept. Rulers are that concept manifested into a governmental body. If rules didn't exist without rulers, then the law against thievery doesn't apply to me, because I've never broken such a law. (edit: this part seems really sketchy to me, and even i'm not sure what i meant here. Ill try to explain it later. Hopefully it makes sense to you.)

You see? just because i have never stolen doesn't mean that the law/rule against stealing doesn't still stand. Sure, rules and laws may fall down to the category of "guidelines", but that is why it is up to the people to rise to the category of responsible citizens.

Anarchism is an amazing idea, and is my idea of a perfect society. Nobody wrongs each other, nobody abuses power because nobody has more than the next person, and everyone gives each other's services to each other. There are PLENTY of different theories about how anarchism should work, and though i don't agree with some of them, it is definately not a ridiculous concept, and it is not stupid. I think anyone that sees it as such is looking from the completely wrong perspective.

Who is there to say that people would kill people for crack? Who's there to say that people can't live in harmony without knowing that the police will come to their door if they steal something from some one? Does that mean that people will be more inclined to do it? We can't say first hand.

But if a group of responsible people got together and formed an anarchist society, there would be nothing ridiculous about it.


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Edited by Drewwyann (10/24/07 04:41 PM)

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Re: anarchy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7555936 - 10/24/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You're right in that the concept itself isn't ridiculous, in fact, it would be great if the world worked like that, but it doesn't. Anywhere there are humans, hierarchies develop. Whether it be 2 or 2,000,000 people. The highest person or persons on that hierarchy becomes law and governs the people below. Therefore 'government' is developed and government defies anarchy. The only guaranteed working example of Anarchy is a single person living on their own without any outside influence.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7556109 - 10/24/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

sounds like what you are describing rustifier, i.e taking whatever you want from people and holding no responsiblility for any of them is the same thing as wiccan is describing in his view of psychopathy.

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Re: anarchy [Re: evolprim]
    #7556114 - 10/24/07 05:34 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

unless you wanna clarify the distinction

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Re: anarchy [Re: Rustifer]
    #7556356 - 10/24/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Honestly, its narrow minded to think that we live in some fascist nation that controls our lives. Sure the current administration is BS and most American governments control the people more than we would like to think. But the fact is, there aren't to many places in the world where you can sit at your computer and write on the internet about illegal drugs like we are now. The very fact that you can broadcast your ideas freely means that you are taking advantage of the opportunities a democracy provides.


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Re: anarchy [Re: g00ru]
    #7556437 - 10/24/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

nobody ever said the government was a fascist state. Though in a lot of ways, it might seem like it is turning into one. *cough cough* Guantanamo *cough cough*

Fascit state, not really.

Controlling our lives, absolutely.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7556596 - 10/24/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

like robert anton wilson pointed out, that even kafka or salvador dali couldn't have dreamt up the piss tests. a government demands your bodily fluids? sounds fucked up to me.


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Re: anarchy [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7557638 - 10/25/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

just for the record, i am not an anarchist and i don't want anarchy to happen, i am a peace loving stoner/hippie/tripper, violence only cuases more violence


peace out Dm


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