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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
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Christianity is a hard nut to crack
    #7552949 - 10/23/07 09:45 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have been thinking a lot about drugs and why they are feared and illegal and all that. I have had lots of thoughts on the subject, about the causes, such as history, intrinsic fear in humans, etc...

Today I came across a christian website forum. Two topics really unsettled me. The first was from someone asking if it was okay for him to read about mythology and religions. The vast majority of responses to this question were along the lines that it could be okay, but be very very careful, don't get sucked into the black magic and the occult, satan lies around every corner, pray before and after reading, etc. Many replies advised that questioner not even read these things.

The other topic was a question about what it means to be christian. To this question the vast majority of responses talked about obedience to the bible, to gods word, to jesus, to the father, to giving ones life to these things.


What bothers me so much about this, is how are people like this ever going to be able to accept drug use if they're afraid of even reading Homer?

I am shocked at how disapproving they were towards other beliefs, how certain they were that other beliefs were caused by Satan. If you believe that Satan is the cause of different beliefs, of different thinking, than drugs are definitely Satan.

I'm feeling really pessimistic about it all right now. How have I not noticed this before? Oh- they must be to afraid of all the Satan pouring out of my soul...

I wonder how many are this rigid.

Anyway I am going to stop before it becomes a full fledged rant

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OfflineDigThisvibe
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Registered: 10/14/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7552981 - 10/23/07 09:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It's a tough call man, shrooms may never be legal. Any time I ever mention shrooms to someone who hasn't tried it, I feel like they judge me, you know what I mean? I don't think people don't understand, or don't WANT to understand how positively shrooms can affect one's understanding and outlook. It's a pretty sucky thing, but it's how propaganda works.

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InvisibleLayYouIn
Taurus
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Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553031 - 10/23/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

let them live in their own little psychosis and leave them alone.

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Invisiblestarseed
professional lurker


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 671
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553152 - 10/23/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i was force-fed christianity as a youth.. and when i say that, i mean 5 times / 4 days a week in a pentecostal church. fuck all that nonsense. i wouldnt wish that upon my worst enemies.

talk about brainwashing.. i remember this one incident when i was 14 and i was so happy to have found a girl to call my own.. i told my friends at church and the youth pastor overheard and said "you know, the bible says that you shouldn't stray from the flock..." and they had me pray for her soul and vow to them i wouldnt date a non-christian.

i ran into a friend i haven't seen in ten years just recently.. he still goes to that same BS church, leading the worship service.. he asked me if i would go down to the ol' church with him sometime and i mockingly laughed and said "no. not now, not ever, under no circumstances will i ever set foot in church again.."

you could see the twinkle in his eye fade as he re-categorized me as a "backslider" in his mind.. you could smell his fear as he mentally recoiled in horror over the fact that i could dismiss his religion as myth designed strictly for control..

and he will never understand my view, because he cannot remove himself from it. nailed into his mind since childhood, he is powerless to resist.. he cannot fathom anything different..

and therein lies the problem.

my mother was a devout hardcore christian for most of my youth. after parting ways and returning several years down the line, i had to pry into her thought pattern.

"have you ever studied any other religions? ever peeked at a text on buddhism or hinduism or any other religion, at all?"

'no.. i don;t need to.'

"hasn't it ever occured to you that you may just be stuck in a pattern of blind belief? how do you know that your religion is the right one unless you;ve sampled them all?"

'i dont need to, i have faith.'

good lord.

anyway, after reading the initial post i felt i had to contribute. i could rant on and on for hours on end.. but i'll spare the community from that ugliness.


--------------------
:poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison:

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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: starseed]
    #7553209 - 10/23/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

have fun :-D spread the word of love and peace :lol:

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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Crystal G]
    #7553254 - 10/23/07 11:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I would imagine the people on the website I visited could appreciate the works of Van Gogh, but seeing that vision themselves would be the devil's work. It is so hard for me to understand this contradiction.

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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
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Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553272 - 10/23/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

have fun :-D spread the word of love and peace :lol:





from the above link:
"And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son." Way to go Adam! 4:25

I didn't know Adam 'knew' his wife so well!

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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553335 - 10/23/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The themes of violence are quite prevalent throughout the book as well. The bible is anything but a benevolent fairytale :lol:

The absurdities are quite amusing as well: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553401 - 10/24/07 12:26 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Only the Romans / Brits could come up with such a magnificent mechanism of scare tactics and deception.

Whenever I see that dead myth hanging on wood I want to spit on it.

I try not to loath fundamentalist Xtians, but it's hard not to.

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OfflineKinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Middleman]
    #7553516 - 10/24/07 01:16 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

People who think that way are just highly insecure in their own beliefs, and they feel that if they convert everyone to the way they believe, it will somehow validate those beliefs.

I suggest a smile and a nod, there's no reason to judge these people. They're just lost like the rest of us, trying to find our way home. :thumbup:

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 13 days
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Kinematics]
    #7553737 - 10/24/07 05:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

> They're just lost like the rest of us, trying to find our way home. :thumbup:

Hardly.  I don't try to legislate my beliefs and moral values forcing other people to live by what I feel is right and wrong.  I don't go around bugging people trying to get them to believe what I believe for their own good.  I try not to judge other people in an attempt to validate my own worth.  And I certainly don't consider myself lost.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7553754 - 10/24/07 05:46 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LayYouIn said:
let them live in their own little psychosis and leave them alone.




If only they'd stop bothering the rest of us!


--------------------

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OfflineKinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Seuss]
    #7553871 - 10/24/07 06:46 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> They're just lost like the rest of us, trying to find our way home. :thumbup:

Hardly.  I don't try to legislate my beliefs and moral values forcing other people to live by what I feel is right and wrong.  I don't go around bugging people trying to get them to believe what I believe for their own good.  I try not to judge other people in an attempt to validate my own worth.  And I certainly don't consider myself lost.





I think you missed what I was trying to get at.

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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
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Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7553873 - 10/24/07 06:48 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

But what about the Van Gogh example? Anyone understand that?

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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
Stranger
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
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Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: Freedom]
    #7553894 - 10/24/07 07:00 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

They're not real Christians. If you want to know what a Christian is, read scripture. If they don't fit, they're not Christians.

Real Christians know that plants were given by God for our use from the very beginning. It's right in scripture in Genesis 1.

And you should know that drugs are not intrinsically counter culture, and by themselves they have no affect on culture, it is the person who takes the drugs and it brings out whatever is in that persons heart.The drugs may have a better use in some instances than others, and may may work with some people better than others though. But definitely not intrinsically counter culture.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7553912 - 10/24/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
They're not real Christians. If you want to know what a Christian is, read scripture. If they don't fit, they're not Christians.




The statement makes no sense. It simply exists as a way in which one individual feels their particular brand of "Christian" thought is more superior and righteous than the others. Every single Christian set of beliefs holds the Bible as its foundation, and each of its followers are inclined to assert that they are "real" Christians.

The fact is, there is no "real" Christian. The fact is, you have no grounds upon which to claim that there is an objective, real "Christian". :sorry:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7555414 - 10/24/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Not all Christians base their beliefs on the bible.

The "real" Christians know that Rome never left Britain, the Roman Empire never ended, and Josh of Nazareth is the Anti-Christ.

G.I. Gurdjieff was a "real" Christian...

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
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Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7555610 - 10/24/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
They're not real Christians. If you want to know what a Christian is, read scripture. If they don't fit, they're not Christians.

Real Christians know that plants were given by God for our use from the very beginning. It's right in scripture in Genesis 1.

And you should know that drugs are not intrinsically counter culture, and by themselves they have no affect on culture, it is the person who takes the drugs and it brings out whatever is in that persons heart.The drugs may have a better use in some instances than others, and may may work with some people better than others though. But definitely not intrinsically counter culture.





Right. And "inspiration" means:

1 a: a divine influence or action on a person believed to qualify him or her to receive and communicate sacred revelation b: the action or power of moving the intellect or emotions c: the act of influencing or suggesting opinions
2: the act of drawing in; specifically : the drawing of air into the lungs

...and definition 1b or 1c must apply because definition 1a certainly doesn't apply to Cannabis sativa var. indica as indicated by the central leaf in your little leaf picture. But of course this indicates the influence of pharmakeia, simple 'sorcery' from a New Testament perspective. It is not merely a foodstuff under Jewish dietary law for which the "Do not ye yet understand that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly and is cast out into the draught," of Matthew 15:17 would apply. Why not cop to the fact that you alter your consciousness with 'sorcery,' since that is the dual meaning of pharmakeia. There has never been sorcery without plant-drugs, high magick perhaps, but then again the high magick of Catholic Transubstantiation uses wine/grape,ethanol. We are not even talking about Genesis' "seed bearing" plants in this day and age of hybridized sinsemilla. Today's pot is truly the result of the marvelous man-made manipulation of marijuana, would you not agree? It is not a natural plant, but the result of much science and routine, if not ritual. Calling hydroponically grown, hybridized cannabis natural is like saying LSD grows on rye grain.

Now I could not care less if your communion cup is the Cannabis Cup, but since you pretend to represent some common Christian consensus about what constitutes correct Christianity, I suggest you take a good hard look at the kind of Christian that 'I' see in your portrayal. It is just as idiosyncratic as every other Christian's claim to orthodoxy (right view). I know of a lot of grape-juice shot-glass Christians who would think you are one of the devil's own for smoking anything, let alone the accursed cannabis. That's OK with me (even if I don't use cannabis), but try to remember that brilliant psychological insight on the defense mechanism calledProjection that is found in Matthew 7:5:

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Have a tolerant day.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7555914 - 10/24/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
And you should know that drugs are not intrinsically counter culture, and by themselves they have no affect on culture, it is the person who takes the drugs and it brings out whatever is in that persons heart.The drugs may have a better use in some instances than others, and may may work with some people better than others though. But definitely not intrinsically counter culture.





:thumbup:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Christianity is a hard nut to crack [Re: DigThisvibe]
    #7556051 - 10/24/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DigThisvibe said:
It's a tough call man, shrooms may never be legal. Any time I ever mention shrooms to someone who hasn't tried it, I feel like they judge me, you know what I mean?




Of course, every human being associates others and their actions and views with meaning (judgement). A great amount of human beings make uninformed judgements, unnecessary judgements, and they obstruct their ability to observe and know reality for what it is as a result. I wouldn't feel too concerned about being judged by others. :wink:

Something like mushrooms, which implies a very altered, novel experience of reality that is rather unparalleled to other experiences of reality, with the exception, of course, of other psychadelics, and perhaps a vivid memory of the experience of life as a child, or similar experiences wherein one's thought processes do not obstruct one's magnified perception of one's sensory information and the present moment, cannot be understood by those without a framework with which to understand them. The experience cannot be conveyed. I think the only thing an individual can do is simply be who they are, pursue the mushroom experience for one's own benefit as one feels it necessary, to be an informed individual who knows mushrooms and the nature of the experience. Changes in reality as a whole will naturally occur as a result. :smile:

One can, of course, use knowledge in a subtle way to at least bring individuals to be more receptive to an understanding that one day might bring them to make a decision to have a psychadelic experience, or, at the very least, to be more tolerant of the choices of others, and to maybe recognize that their perspective is uninformed, as they have not had the experience, and to recognize that some good may come for others in having the experience. :mushroom2:

I think what we will see happen is that the benefits of the usage of psychadelics in therapy and psychological settings will become more prevalent, as the scientific community is becoming more involved in exploring their role in as much, once again. As psychadelics begin to play more of an official role in helping individuals overcome their mental afflictions, and start to live and think more in accordance with the nature of reality, the effects will blossom more and more, throughout reality as a whole. :smile: Understanding will become more pronounced, and the uninformed judgement of psychadelic experiences will diminish more and more as the light of knowledge shines through. :wink:

Quote:


I don't think people don't understand, or don't WANT to understand how positively shrooms can affect one's understanding and outlook. It's a pretty sucky thing, but it's how propaganda works.




Propaganda is simply the result of a lack of knowledge - it wouldn't exist if knowledge were abundant. It is the lack of a thirst for knowledge that allows propaganda to arise, which further compounds lack of knowledge.

What, do you think, is the source of the lack of a thirst for knowledge? I think it stems from the fact that, to understand and know reality, one must perceive reality for what it is, which implies relinquishing one's conceptions of who one is, as well as one's mentally-defined sense of the nature of reality. I think people are reluctant to do this because they are addicted to security. To understand and know reality, one must embrace the unknown - interact with the unknown in order to make it known, and, subsequently, to know oneself. Our tests of reality define reality as well. :wink:

Being attached to security is no longer as much of a benefit to our ability to survive as it once was. In many ways, being attached to security, especially as reality challenges our expectations of how it should unfold in order for us to feel secure, is a hindrance to our ability to survive, and most certainly a severe obstruction to our ability to have a preferential experience of reality, to be able to center in a state of being of love, and to know and understand reality for how it presents itself to be. The more knowledge there is, the less there will be a lack of thirst for more knowledge. :hehehe:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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