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Offlineboletusoftruth
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Life or No Life?
    #7547840 - 10/22/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There are 2 views I am debating.

A) When you die, that is the end. There is no continuation. There is no heaven. There is no hell. It is the absolute end.

To me that is actually very uplifting. It allows you to live every moment of your life to the best. It allows you to love everything. It allows you to walk outside on a rainy day and be GLAD to be alive. It allows you to look at anything you see and realize how TRULY beautiful it is. It allows you to see the GOOD in everything.

B)When you die, there is no heaven or hell. However there is a continuation of sorts. Not yourself as a conscious entity continues to exist. Instead your spirit, your essence of being, joins that of all the other dead. And this pool of energy is the ultimate destination of all life.

To me this is uplifting in that in the end you will be rejoined with all those you have loved. You will be able to meet up with those lost. However you aren't really YOU. It is your essence that enters this pool, not your conscious self. That to me is a little bitter sweet.

What is everyone elses views?
Which is more uplifting
You may choose only one
Which do you believe
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (02/06/06 11:28 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlineenesi
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7547873 - 10/22/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Personally...I think I'm looking forward to it. Life is boring..shit gets repetitive too fast. Sometimes it feels like all life is, is just a waiting game until whatever is next. [sigh]


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Offlineboletusoftruth
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: enesi]
    #7547885 - 10/22/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ya, I feel like 75+ years of life is a very long time...


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7547932 - 10/22/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dont really understand the concept of an essence. would my spirit be my thoughts? my memories?
i believe that when you are dead you are dead.
this definetly makes me appreciate life more.

i could be wrong, either way, i dont think it takes away from my enjoyment and appreciation of being alive.


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Offlineboletusoftruth
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: evolprim]
    #7547944 - 10/22/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The essence is YOU. It is your being. Your thoughts and memories are all merely manifestations of the existance of you. However when you die, all that ends. The only thing that is left is YOU. Your essence. You inner being. None of your memories, thoughts, ideas, just YOU. I dunno its something I can't really explain if you dont already know what I mean.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7547953 - 10/22/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with B. I think that your essence "lives" on in the earth. You become one with everything, and get recycled. I don't know what kind of consciousness you would have when you enter this state, if you have one at all, but i believe that you join the cycle of life as your essence (never been able to call it anything before, so i guess an essence comes pretty close to my ideas).


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7547961 - 10/22/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

boletusoftruth said:
The essence is YOU. It is your being. Your thoughts and memories are all merely manifestations of the existance of you. However when you die, all that ends. The only thing that is left is YOU. Your essence. You inner being. None of your memories, thoughts, ideas, just YOU. I dunno its something I can't really explain if you dont already know what I mean.



yea, i agree. You're thoughts, memories, all that stuff is probably left behind in your meat sack. No room for that extra baggage on this flight..

Might be why you don't have any recollection of anything before birth...all that shit get's erased and has to start anew.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: enesi]
    #7548016 - 10/22/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A would be more uplifting for me, but I am fairly convinced of B


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Invisibleimpeachme2
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: enesi]
    #7548092 - 10/22/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I had always believed there was absolutely nothing after death. The reason this idea is depressing, to me at least, is because if there is nothing after death, your memory will cease to exist. This means your life, in essence, is meaningless. If you cannot retain memories after death, it is pointless to care about the future after death, since you will not be experiencing it. If you believe there is nothing after death, you can try to convince yourself that the future after your death matters, but logically, it doesn't. I cannot say with 100% certainty that this is true. We, as humans, know very little about anything. As humans, we can only perceive a tiny fraction of what actually exists, since we can detect only a small range of frequencies of vibration, light, etc. There is always a possibility that there is something after death. I can, however, assure you it is not based on any religion which involves a moral, judging god. This is another issue, though.

I had pondered the human psyche while tripping one day, and came to the same conclusion, however in much more detail. Unfortunately, I cannot remember most of the epiphany I had experienced. I did not write them down, mostly because I was so frightened, and depressed. I was extremely mad and confused why what I had concluded was what I perceived to be true. I had lost the will to live for a short duration after pondering these ideas (lying on my bad, eyes closed). I thought I would stop breathing. Some other thoughts after getting up from this thought session was I had understood why many people are insane and depressed in regards to their fear of the possibility of meaninglessness of life. The bad trip ended shortly after, about an hour or so later. The only thing that helped me get out of the bad trip was the potential to live forever. This didn't help much, but I felt it would give me more time to possibly crack the code of existence, and save myself from the meaninglessness of death.

This may seem like crude thinking to some, however I can assure you, there was much more well-reasoned detail, which I unfortunately forgot.

We all are part of a system we don't understand. An analogous situation could be a computer program with objects interacting with each other, that react with each other. The question is, although the objects can react to things inside the sytem, can the objects themselves understand the very essence of the system, or only what they are programmed to understand. We, as humans, are no different in terms of complexity than many other organisms (not by much, at least). I feel that if you believe people will experience something after death, you must believe the same for dolphins, dogs, hyenas, ants, microorganisms, etc. All these creatures react within a system (the universe) with great complexity. Fundamentally, there is no great difference in composition of all these organisms that we know of, and have no reason to believe there is, either. All of said creatures or biological carbon-based organisms.


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tradelist


Edited by impeachme2 (10/22/07 06:20 PM)


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Offlinemilkman
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: impeachme2]
    #7548476 - 10/22/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i believe when someone dies their soul/essence takes a one way trip to a new born baby or a devloping baby whenever and like someone said you dont have room to bring along your memories cause all of those are in the brain not the soul so then you start your new life reincarnation


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: milkman]
    #7548628 - 10/22/07 07:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well i dunno, what once can deduce from neuroscience is that the self,memories,thought processes, not to mention all body regulation comes from the brain. it makes sense. take a drug, alter the way your brain works, effect the mind. get brain damage, effect mental processes. im not saying this is ultimate truth, but i am doubtful that there is any part of the brain besides these collections of neurons that survive death.


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: evolprim]
    #7548684 - 10/22/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

visit Philosophy & Spirituality here at the shroomery
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/11
many there have some opinion.

what if when you die
you join the living
as did the dead
as if all is living?


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: evolprim]
    #7548702 - 10/22/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe when you die that is the end of you. We are nothing more then smart animals, we only get one chance like everything else does. Like someone mentioned, to believe in reincarnation you must agree that it must apply to not only all animals, but all life. Plants and Animals.


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Offlinexpl0de
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: MindGorilla]
    #7548776 - 10/22/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dont kno about u guys but... shit the thought of nothing existing once we die is kinda scary


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Offlinemilkman
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: MindGorilla]
    #7548781 - 10/22/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

and why can it not apply to all living things? when you die your soul is a soul when a plant dies its soul is a soul their all the same until the soul enters a new host then life begins i was just sayin it for people but yea all living things


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Offlineaaei67
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: MindGorilla]
    #7548782 - 10/22/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe in the Tao (see icon). For those who don't know what that means I will try to explain the best I can, however I am far from an expert, so feel free to correct me. The Tao is the energy of everything, kinda like "ether". It flows through everything and helps to guide it to it's natural order. When one dies, your self, which I imagine to be what you are left with after ego death, joins this Tao and merges with it. Your self is no longer separate from anything else and is the "recycled" into many different new forms, not just one mind you, but split up and merged with other selves in the Tao.


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OfflineMFGFA37
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: aaei67]
    #7548834 - 10/22/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I can guarantee you from personal experience that YOU are not yourself. That is too say... you are the one in control of the machine, your body/mind. Only when you identify YOU with the body/mind does this all get confused. YOU manifest here through the body/mind... for good or bad. YOU are eternal, no beginning, no end. We get confused about our true SELF because of our identification with the superficial... like a child sucking on a tit that's dry. So we move to another "tit".

Damn the UNIVERSE has some nice tits!


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There is no try, only do. -Yoda-

Take no thought for tomorrow, tomorrow shall take thought for itself. Sufficient for one day are the thoughts/worries for that day. Any thought past this is useless. -Ole Jesus-


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: MFGFA37]
    #7548864 - 10/22/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hahaha howd you experience death or what your saying?


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Offlinehabitat0789
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: enesi]
    #7548954 - 10/22/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enesi said:
Personally...I think I'm looking forward to it. Life is boring..shit gets repetitive too fast. [sigh]




i feel like the afterlife will be far more repetitive if were all in the end just part of some homogenous mechanism.


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Offlineelmanimal
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: habitat0789]
    #7549170 - 10/22/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Right now I am thinking that when we die then we are dead forever in a linear time sense.

I am sure most people here have experienced time dilation. I think the instant you die lasts an eternity. That can be your own heaven or hell..in your head.

I haven't read Spirit Molecule but from what I have heard maybe that is kind of what he hypothesizes in the book. With the release of DMT and what not when we die.

Having said that, I really don't know and I am not going to tell anybody else they are wrong.


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, only then will there be peace - Jimi Hendrix


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OfflineStreetFreak
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7549250 - 10/22/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

boletusoftruth said:To me that is actually very uplifting. It allows you to live every moment of your life to the best. It allows you to love everything. It allows you to walk outside on a rainy day and be GLAD to be alive. It allows you to look at anything you see and realize how TRULY beautiful it is. It allows you to see the GOOD in everything.




So do other ideas..


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7549263 - 10/22/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i believe that we are all fortunate to be alive regardless of what happens when we die. when a man ejaculates there are like 60 million(or billion?) sperm cells and usually over half of them show forward movement. if you didn't make it into your moms egg, you wouldn't exist. if any other of those sperm cells made it in, you wouldn't exist.

so, your chances of existing are that, multiplied by all the times your parents had sex before conceiving you. not to mention that you could have been born in some poor country and died from starvation at age 7 or something.


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OfflineMFGFA37
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7549379 - 10/22/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't die. i am sick. Does that make sense? "I", and "i". "i" am sick, "I" realized...


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There is no try, only do. -Yoda-

Take no thought for tomorrow, tomorrow shall take thought for itself. Sufficient for one day are the thoughts/worries for that day. Any thought past this is useless. -Ole Jesus-


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: elmanimal]
    #7549600 - 10/22/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think when we die then time cease to exist. I think that saying you're still YOU after you die, then you're not letting go of your ego. I think we become apart of the collective consciousness. I think to become closer to spirituality, we must let go of our egos and think in terms of humanity being ONE.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: Love Cap]
    #7549732 - 10/23/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

haha mfgfa37 i see what you are saying, well its an interesting theory. but i guess know one knows for sure. but i like what take you in said. we are VERY lucky to be here, not only from a sperm to egg standpoint but even an evolutionary standpoint. enjoy it while we last.

i really hope ultimate truth is something ridiculous that no one would expect.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: evolprim]
    #7549767 - 10/23/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oh yeah thats another thing. yeah we hae all this scientific data, and religious experiences, mushroom epiphanies, bible stories, and neuroscience. but all our theories could be COMPLETE bullshit, and after death something completely unexpected could occur. so by asking life or no life you are really limiting yourself, the possibilities are endless. choose your belief systems or remain in suspended belief


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: evolprim]
    #7550047 - 10/23/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe the fact that no one knows is actually all we have to go on.
the only honest answer to 'what happens when we die' is I don't know. to say something or nothing is only a guess. to get into specifics is nothing but a mind game to keep yourself from fearing the unknown.

you'll never guess, just enjoy the ride.

my best guess,
your life is like a plant that takes bits and pieces from its environment to form itself. at the end of the season you wilt and die. eventually the bits and pieces you formed are taken up by another life or lives. YOU were never just YOU so there's no loss.

of course this guess is as worthless as any.


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Offlineboletusoftruth
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: substraight]
    #7550809 - 10/23/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Some good thoughts going here so far. Do any of you believe in the church's idea of heaven and hell, in the sense that you go to heaven and you are aware, you can meet all your lost love ones, etc


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: boletusoftruth]
    #7551707 - 10/23/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What if when you died you either keep your ege or become one with all. The people who keep theirs are in hell and it's kind of like being here, but with nothing to do. The ones who weren't into themselves dissolve and exist forever without their egos.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: elmanimal]
    #7552351 - 10/23/07 07:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't actually believe this, but I thought it would be cool. What if, after countless millions of years, if your exact DNA and Amino Acid code was recreated exactly by nature, and you in essence were born again, then it would be your same consciousness being reborn. You wouldn't remember your past life but it would still be you. And since the universe is endless, it has to happen eventually.

Like I said, this is just some thought of mine, I doubt its actually true, but IMHO its kinda cool


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: g00ru]
    #7552517 - 10/23/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
I don't actually believe this, but I thought it would be cool. What if, after countless millions of years, if your exact DNA and Amino Acid code was recreated exactly by nature, and you in essence were born again, then it would be your same consciousness being reborn. You wouldn't remember your past life but it would still be you. And since the universe is endless, it has to happen eventually.

Like I said, this is just some thought of mine, I doubt its actually true, but IMHO its kinda cool




i think if it were your same DNA, it would be someone that looked exactly the same as you, but wouldn't actually be you.

i like this.... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7143412#7143412


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7552919 - 10/23/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nothing can be completely destroyed, and you can't create something from nothing. One energy is simply converted over..changed to another, or in some way transformed, but it's not gone. It doesn't just vanish into thin air. I think this applies to most everything, and possibly even our energy or "spirit" if you will.

Where we come from..is where we will end at. Whatever home is. We aren't at home right now..we're away, on the journey of life.


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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: elmanimal]
    #7553045 - 10/23/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Have you guys heard about parallel dimensions and string theory? I mean these things, although scientific, point out that we still don't know shit. I mean honestly, we know absolute shit, don't fool yourself into thinking that what we "THINK" we know now is true. And the brain, as researched as it is, still is a very mysterious organ that we still don't know everything about.

I think about this subject pretty often, tripping, not tripping, whatever, it crosses my mind pretty much daily. But honestly, I'm just going to live under the moral philosophy of "do the right thing" and hope for the best.


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InvisibleLayYouIn
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: enesi]
    #7553057 - 10/23/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enesi said:
Nothing can be completely destroyed, and you can't create something from nothing. One energy is simply converted over..changed to another, or in some way transformed, but it's not gone. It doesn't just vanish into thin air. I think this applies to most everything, and possibly even our energy or "spirit" if you will.

Where we come from..is where we will end at. Whatever home is. We aren't at home right now..we're away, on the journey of life.




possibly. but maybe not.

Quote:

mindspin said:
Have you guys heard about parallel dimensions and string theory? I mean these things, although scientific, point out that we still don't know shit. I mean honestly, we know absolute shit, don't fool yourself into thinking that what we "THINK" we know now is true. And the brain, as researched as it is, still is a very mysterious organ that we still don't know everything about.

I think about this subject pretty often, tripping, not tripping, whatever, it crosses my mind pretty much daily. But honestly, I'm just going to live under the moral philosophy of "do the right thing" and hope for the best.




exactly. nobody truly knows the answers. we are all ignorant. but it's interesting coming up with things. btw, welcome.


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7553126 - 10/23/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

HAHA
Choice B is the final fantasy 7 theory/story.


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: Life or No Life? [Re: Legoulash]
    #7553231 - 10/23/07 11:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe that there is a definite force and some sort of energy underneath the surface of reality, but as far as your energy being carried on and recycled, I think that is nothing more than a pipe dream.

When we are on a psychedelics, we are brought into another realm, we pick up on this energy and as an "animal" our senses tell us something is different, something unexplainable is going on. Although I don't think that humans are developed enough to be in tune and alter this system, it is definitely there and we effect it on a conscious and unconscious level. Karma per say.

Now I believe when you die that is the end, the system continues living and growing, while there is no more "life" in your body, no more "energy" in yourself to actually effect it.


Like others have said before me, it is awesome to think you only really get one chance to live. I'm only 18, and have already accepted the fact that there is no life after death. Not saying it is true, but it is what I have come to believe.

No life after death makes everything in my world that much more beautiful. It gives me a sense of appreciating everything in my life, from the "bonding" time I spend with my family to the most redundant task, like tying my shoes.

It really saddens me to see my friends caught up on the most pointless things in life. I honestly think that shrooms have made me mature so much faster then I was intending. They just made me realize what matters and what doesn't. And I know that one day they will see life how I do now, and even though I wish to make them understand and feel like I do, I know I can only talk to them and let them discover life on their own like I have.




*off soap box*


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