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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Registered: 04/04/05
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"treating people like shit"
    #7545134 - 10/21/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Is there such thing as forming your communication in such a way that it doesn't hurt someone or cause harm. Are we all responsible for our own emotions or is there a way to frame something which is more respectable?

Do we have a right to be treated respectfully? I have a difficult mother who takes absolutely everything personally, when I try and lighten the mood with her she takes it as me making fun of her or "not taking her seriously".

Now, I can play along with her, which just gets me down because I'm not allowed to have fun around her, or I can just be myself but then she gets offended and gets upset with me. However, nothing I could do would ever humble her or see things differently. She has been this way for too long.

Is the fact that we are responsible for our own emotions mean we can rightfully disregard the emotions of others when we find them unreasonable? What is the compassionate thing to do here?

When someone gets upset, we should go to the root and explore why they are upset or provoke them to understand their own reaction. We should never appease someone's emotional state as it puts in a slavish position and we put ourselves in idol worship of their emotion - we bow down to it. Only when we are already in a state of compassion can we appease them because their emotions don't effect us since we are in a high state of energy. In a low state of energy, you have to defend your ego from their ego - otherwise you will become vulnerable to their own emotional state.

Have you ever been on shrooms or been experiencing an ego loss with a sober person around? Did their egos become incredibly uneasy? It is interesting to see the circles people go in, over and over again, to uphold their beliefs. I have found, in my experience, it is almost impossible to communicate what would be necessary for them to see the big picture so that they could become more aware. The ego ALWAYS wins. This is true for me as well. The ego always wins me over.


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Offlinehecknotechno
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7545177 - 10/21/07 11:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wow dude,

weird how people think the EXACT same.

you took the words right out of my mouth.

im going through this right now, fucking blows :mad:


--------------------
REAL EYES
REALIZE
REAL LIES


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: hecknotechno]
    #7545232 - 10/21/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

so you understand my dilemma :mad2:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: hecknotechno]
    #7545234 - 10/21/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hmm, i had parents that were the opposite. constantly crossing the lines into inappropriate and behavior, attempting to toughen me up, lmao...

personally, if you like that person then i would respect their boundaries.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: Crystal G]
    #7545273 - 10/21/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

that's what i've done for the most part... it's just unfortunate i guess


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7545285 - 10/21/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you think you're supposed to do something?
Why do you even think that you should act with compassion?
You shouldn't do anything.
Compassion is something much too wonderful to make it become a rule. Compassion is spontaneous. You either feel it or you don't.
It's only then when you can make yourself understood in order to make others see where you're coming from.
I think that this example with your mother is the perfect prove and it's so much better to let things flow naturally, without worrying on how they can be interpreted.
Your mother has her experience and frustrations that she needs to work on, and you also need to work on your frustration regarding your mother. You probably need to explain yourself why because you somehow feel guilty for her feeling this way.
We can be caring and loving without worrying. In fact, it is this worry which stops us from really caring.

Quote:

When someone gets upset, we should go to the root and explore why they are upset or provoke them to understand their own reaction. We should never appease someone's emotional state as it puts in a slavish position and we put ourselves in idol worship of their emotion - we bow down to it.




Why?
For helping them? Seriously, this sounds like a trouble maker for me. Each of us need to be mature enough to have the decency to let others make their own mistakes, even though they think we hurt them. Otherwise the risk is to become dictator baby sitters instead of enjoying our own life.

Why is this EGO so bad?
What is exactly that?
I think that many people make this mistake, and consider the "ego" to be the evil brother that we need to rid. THE EGO... is us. Is part of who we are, we CAN'T rid it and it not a mentally healthy attitude to hate it.
Why not accept it?
Explore it?
Exploring the ego is in fact exploring who we are, which is essential to happen if we want to grow up and understand and assume full responsibility for the entire persons that we are.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7545298 - 10/21/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Actually I only said that to see what kind of reaction I would get. I agree, that kind of thing does strike me not as compassion but self indulgent trouble making.

I agree that the ego is a good thing, and my interpretations of how I should treat my mother comes from the ego, which is why I wanted to see what other people's opinions of dealing with other people's emotions would be.

For a long time, I was resentful towards my mother and all my interactions with her were based on trying to reflect her ego back at her as if to show her what she was doing. Then I came to realize that I was just indulging my own ego. Now I don't worry about her own struggles so much as just try and get along with her and love her for who she is.


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OfflineGrok
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7545323 - 10/22/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Is there such thing as forming your communication in such a way that it doesn't hurt someone or cause harm. Are we all responsible for our own emotions or is there a way to frame something which is more respectable?

Do we have a right to be treated respectfully? I have a difficult mother who takes absolutely everything personally, when I try and lighten the mood with her she takes it as me making fun of her or "not taking her seriously".

Now, I can play along with her, which just gets me down because I'm not allowed to have fun around her, or I can just be myself but then she gets offended and gets upset with me. However, nothing I could do would ever humble her or see things differently. She has been this way for too long.

Is the fact that we are responsible for our own emotions mean we can rightfully disregard the emotions of others when we find them unreasonable? What is the compassionate thing to do here?

When someone gets upset, we should go to the root and explore why they are upset or provoke them to understand their own reaction. We should never appease someone's emotional state as it  puts in a slavish position and we put ourselves in idol worship of their emotion - we bow down to it. Only when we are already in a state of compassion can we appease them because their emotions don't effect us since we are in a high state of energy. In a low state of energy, you have to defend your ego from their ego - otherwise you will become vulnerable to their own emotional state.




Some people will never understand that they create their own emotions. Some of my family is like this. When I told them I use drugs in a general and psychedelics in particular, this fact all of the sudden began to destroy my family...just ask them :rolleyes:. Never mind that I'd been using drugs for several years before divulging this to them and it hadn't upset a thing. In their world, I was tearing apart our family, no questions asked. Their internal angst was due to me and me alone. And all I could do was laugh in their face about it - it being how stupid they were - after trying to explain again and again that they were putting themsleves through this misery, and I was quite happy with both my choices and however they choose to see the circumstance. That is, until they called the fuckin pigs :thumbdown::thumbdown::mad2:

If people can't take a joke then fuck em. Walk all over them. Others will never grow if we constantly oblige their comfort zones. I get so sick of watering myself down just to go with the flow of things.

Quote:

Have you ever been on shrooms or been experiencing an ego loss with a sober person around? Did their egos become incredibly uneasy? It is interesting to see the circles people go in, over and over again, to uphold their beliefs. I have found, in my experience, it is almost impossible to communicate what would be necessary for them to see the big picture so that they could become more aware. The ego ALWAYS wins.




So true...


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Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7545338 - 10/22/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, but why do you say that it was your "ego" who made you have that reaction?
How do you establish the ego? It was.. you. In all the situations. When you were trying to reflect her personality and also when you realized that this is getting you nowhere. This is called the process of learning.
Our first reaction, our instinct is to fight back. There is nothing wrong with that because we need to have this kind of reactions in some cases, otherwise it would just be something useless and NOTHING from what we feel/think is useless in my opinion.
You were trying to show her her flaws because you were unexperienced on how to handle a situation like that, even though, instinctively, you knew that there was something negative about the way she was reacting.
Then, as you gained experience, you realized that your means of making her see the flaws in her behavior were not the best, so you switched tactics.
This sounds like learning to me. :shrug:
What I am really trying to say here, in case you've been wondering :lol: :bongload: is that I think it would be so much better and constructive to stop blaming all the "bad stuff" on the ego. Because we get a split personality in a context that doesn't serve our best interests, and also because this is how we begin was with ourselves.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7545359 - 10/22/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What I am really trying to say here, in case you've been wondering :lol: :bongload:




:lol: you got me pegged there

yes, i see what you're saying. the distinction between a higher self and lower self is really damaging

:bongload::heart:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7545368 - 10/22/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes! :smile:

:bongload:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7545425 - 10/22/07 12:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Why is this EGO so bad?
What is exactly that?
I think that many people make this mistake, and consider the "ego" to be the evil brother that we need to rid. THE EGO... is us. Is part of who we are, we CAN'T rid it and it not a mentally healthy attitude to hate it.
Why not accept it?
Explore it?
Exploring the ego is in fact exploring who we are, which is essential to happen if we want to grow up and understand and assume full responsibility for the entire persons that we are.




I like. :thumbup:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: Rahz]
    #7545542 - 10/22/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Who is to say anyone elses point of view and way of thinking is wrong? To the other person it is completely logical and it is part of who they are. The only thing which can be a problem is when someone thinks they know some kind of truth and try to push it on others. I think people should back off when it comes to others points of view and way of life, they are following another path which you dont understand, there meanings are not your meanings.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7546338 - 10/22/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Self-importance and indulging are what make us take things personally. You can't change people who do this (you might be able to change yourself somewhat) You accept them for who they are and work with that or leave them alone. I suggest the latter (life is too short for that shit) whether family or "friends".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/22/07 10:52 AM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: Rahz]
    #7546921 - 10/22/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Why is this EGO so bad?
What is exactly that?
I think that many people make this mistake, and consider the "ego" to be the evil brother that we need to rid. THE EGO... is us. Is part of who we are, we CAN'T rid it and it not a mentally healthy attitude to hate it.
Why not accept it?
Explore it?
Exploring the ego is in fact exploring who we are, which is essential to happen if we want to grow up and understand and assume full responsibility for the entire persons that we are.


I agree. :laugh: 
Also, seems to me there is no such thing as an ego, only processes of thought and emotion which arise and pass away.  If they arise frequently and densely enough they constrict awareness and limit one's sense of self.  A healthy egoing process is one in which thoughts and emotions arise, are recognized, and are let go of if they are not practical.

Is there a central Ego?  Is it the same thing as the Assemblage Point?  I don't think either of these things really exist.  There are only different conditioned frequencies of thought and emotions, all of which can be altered or let go of entirely.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: Lion]
    #7546939 - 10/22/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:laugh: Yup!


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7547327 - 10/22/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would love to see some evidence that people are responsible for their emotional states.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7547355 - 10/22/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What about the fact that if one is really determined to change the way he/she feels about something, then one is able to do so?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7547473 - 10/22/07 04:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I want real evidence, not anecdotes.


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OfflineKinematics
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Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
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Re: "treating people like shit" [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7547488 - 10/22/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
I want real evidence, not anecdotes.




I was about to get mad at your post, but I didn't. Evidence. :tongue2:


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