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just me
Friend



Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 9,745
Loc: IL/MO/FL/TX/HI/OR
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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why's my wbs clumpy?///UPDATE**Did I Fuck Up AGAIN???**
#7542732 - 10/21/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-i soaked 24 hours -rinsed THOROUGHLY -slow simmered for a little under 1/2hour due to kernels starting to pop -drained for 1/2hour(with plate over top so it wouldnt dry out) -PC'ed for 1 1/2hours @ 10psi(seemed like a few more kernels popped) -let cool, and shook to loosen(am i not supposed to shake with tyvek lids, moisture came thru my polyfil?) -now they are patiently waiting for my orissa LC to finish
heres a couple pics. got a few busted kernels, and clumps


...now tell me im just being paranoid like i was when i thought my popcorn was too dry, and that everything is exactly how its supposed to be...i just want to make sure everything is good for my monotubs. doing 4 27qt(2 Koh Samui, and 2 Orissa)
one more quick Question, how long can these ready jars of wbs sit before i have to knock them up. i know it wont be more than about 3 more days, i just want my LC to turn clear, cuz its still got quite a bit of honey hue to it, but a huge ball of myc
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
Edited by just me (10/25/07 05:47 AM)
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7542781 - 10/21/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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They look on the wet side, theyll dry out a little, i suggest tumbling the grains around for a couple days before mycelium starts growing. the top gets dry, the bottom will not be as dry, and by mixing you distrib that excess moisture b4 mycel starts growin
next time simmering should only be 15 mins. screw half an our. it seems to make them too wet.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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simmering was an unnecessary step. the soak is all you needed.
simmering only hurt you. grains that are burst open some, will stick... but that's not the big problem. the big problem is that you loaded the grain into the jars before it was ready. it was too wet.
read this post by agar: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6505282#6505282
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just me
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Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 9,745
Loc: IL/MO/FL/TX/HI/OR
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ok, i was thinkin it was a little wet too, but being my first time with wbs, i figured that since they were so small they just were supposed to look wetter than popcorn.
can i shake them with a tyvek top, or will it contamiate?
if i can, ill shake them for the next couple days before i even inoculate!
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
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damnit, itd be nice if the doc's bird tek didnt say to simmer for 30 mins.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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well no tek is perfect really.
at some point you need to stop just following directions and actually start figuring out the science to it all so that you understand what is happening.
once you do that, success will dramatically increase. and then you can write your own teks and such.
we all (if we're smart) start in this hobby by simply and blindly following somebody's path to hopefully achieve their results. but that should only be the first phase of it all. after you have your own success with others methods, you should branch out on your own and start to really learn how it all works.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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itd help if there were stickies talking about basic requirements for each kind of growing method, or something. no noobie is gonna know not to simmer. experienced people know it. yet teks get posted as if they are credible and they contain wrong info on BASIC things. that's the frustrating part. this site doesn't exactly make it easy for the noob to understand everything in an organized fashion. The FAQs suck and the teks are teks so you just have to sift through them and weed out the basic concepts of cultivating. LOL!
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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just me
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Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 9,745
Loc: IL/MO/FL/TX/HI/OR
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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ok, well next time ill do 15 minutes, i ended it a little early bcuz i noticed it was getting to wet, and popping, but i shouldve ended it sooner. it says in docs that you should quit when 5% are popped and i have fal less popped than 5%...so....oh well
can i shake with tyvek on the first layer, lid with a polyfil hole second layer, ring, then coffee filters???
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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just me
Friend



Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 9,745
Loc: IL/MO/FL/TX/HI/OR
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7542850 - 10/21/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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oops, ok, next time i wont simmer, and then i wont have a buncha popped seeds or too much moisture. is there any way, other than shaking the jars for the next couple days to even the moisture out, or eliminate it some?
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: itd help if there were stickies talking about basic requirements for each kind of growing method, or something. no noobie is gonna know not to simmer. experienced people know it. yet teks get posted as if they are credible and they contain wrong info on BASIC things. that's the frustrating part. this site doesn't exactly make it easy for the noob to understand everything in an organized fashion. The FAQs suck and the teks are teks so you just have to sift through them and weed out the basic concepts of cultivating. LOL!
yup... but such is life here at the shroomery. so what can you do? do something about it, like I'm very slowly doing.
you have a journal. use it. find all of the best teks, all of the methods that work best and pick them all apart. experiment with them all, doing things over and over again until you find what works best, what doesn't, what's needed and what is not needed. then make your own methods or teks or whatever showing how you have found to be the best way to do something.
it may take forever, but your journal could be the one and only place newcomers would ever have to go to get correct information.
that's the only fix I can think of.
Quote:
just me said: oops, ok, next time i wont simmer, and then i wont have a buncha popped seeds or too much moisture. is there any way, other than shaking the jars for the next couple days to even the moisture out, or eliminate it some?
not really. personally I'd simply dump them out and start over. or let them dry out in the jar... but that's hit or miss. I'd just start over.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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they really may dry out i'd vote. worth seeing if they do rather than the pain in the a s s of refilling
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: they really may dry out i'd vote. worth seeing if they do rather than the pain in the a s s of refilling
you're right, they'll dry out. but how much?
how will you know for certain when they'll dry to the optimal point? there's no sure-fire way to do it with the grains locked inside of the jar. you need to actually touch the grains to test their surface water content accurately.
making jars is easy. it'll take about a day.
waiting for them to dry out could take a week or more.
so to each his own... but the better choice in the long run I would have to say is starting over.
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just me
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Registered: 07/01/07
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FUCK! i think i will start over, every time i shake them, the polyfil gets moist, and thats even thru the tyvek, so it must be really moist in there.
its only 4 jars, ill buy some wbs tomorrow i suppose, i really wanted to go hunting tomorrow tho! fuck
i did an exp. tho, a 5th jar wasnt pressure cooked(no room in PC) and i knocked it up with 3-4cc of koh samui, just gonna see what happens with it, maybe use it for an outside grow.
but i guess my final verdict is dump em. what do i need to do to thouroughly clean my jars? ive just been washing them, and then sraying inside and out with 70% alcohol
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7543928 - 10/21/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah yours sounds verrry moist. =(
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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just me
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Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 9,745
Loc: IL/MO/FL/TX/HI/OR
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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=( indeed, ill keep yall posted on my new batch
-so try this?
soak 24hours rinse thouroughly PC(is 1 1/2 hours too long, my PC only goes to 10 psi, but it seemed like the PC made more kernels pop)
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7543957 - 10/21/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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you can just clean them out with soap and water, nothing fancy is needed. the pressure cooker does all of the sterilizing that you'll need.
the grains in that 5th jar will grow. they'll germinate, sprout and grow. You'll have a jar full of grassy type growth.
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just me
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Registered: 07/01/07
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ok, my Q still needs an answer please.
is having a tyvek layer immediate to the grain going to contam when i shake the jars? the reason i ask, is because grains stick to it and moisture does to.
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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shroomerite
Apprentice


Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 513
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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7546171 - 10/22/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well I use tyvek on all my grain jars. No polyfill. I think were you went wrong was not so much the simmer but leaving the lid on the strainer so they wouldnt dry out. I soak for about 48 hours then I boil for 10 minutes ONLY. What this does for me is allow grains to heat up and when I strain them the steam rises off of them and dries the grain. You want all the moisture to be held inside the grain only. After soak and simmer (10Minutes ONLY), you want to strain the grain until it is dry to the tuoch. Grains should be plump with moisture without poping. A few popped ones wont hurt. You want the grain to be dry to the touch when you load it into the jars and PC. If you pick up the grain with your hand and dropp it. There should be only one or two kernels left stuc to your hand. This is perfect to load. Good Luck.
-------------------- "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: why's my wbs clumpy? [Re: just me]
#7546341 - 10/22/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
just me said: ok, my Q still needs an answer please.
is having a tyvek layer immediate to the grain going to contam when i shake the jars? the reason i ask, is because grains stick to it and moisture does to.
anytime your filter material gets wet it's very, very bad. so yes, that could easily contaminate.
the best way to make grain jars in my opinion is to use a regular metal lid and drill several (10 or so) very, very small holes in it. not big enough for grain to get through, just air. put the lid on top of the jar. if you want, for ease, build an inoculation port into the center of the lid. anyway, put it on the jar and cover the lid with tyvek or a filter disc. the lid will let air through for gas exchange, but not allow the grain to stick to the tyvek wetting it.
a wet filter is simply a wick for contamination to enter.
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deucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
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never had grain so wet that it would wet the tyvek and have only ever used it between lid and jar. FWIW i burn two holes in a plastic lid glue a self healing patch over one and poli-fill the other.
as for soaking,never done it> wash /rinse,bring up to 160f and pasteurize for ~ 45 min (until the wheat grains feel/look like bread dough when rubbed between your fingers)
rinse until clear. strain for a few min and then dump a jar load into a roasting tin and blow-dry (hair-drier)until you get this> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6505282#6505282 WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. - Mushroom Cultivation - Shroomery Message Board
dust the top with gypsum (i use an old pepper shaker)and mix in.
done four jars yesterday. started 11.25AM nocked up 5.15PM.
-------------------- whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows... it's a bugger to cycle in. even though I'm feeling good Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule
Edited by deucedbi9 (10/22/07 01:19 PM)
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