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OfflineBrAiN
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how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS
    #7542351 - 10/21/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I was listening to a previously linked interview with Ron Paul on CSPAN and he mentioned we need to eventually get rid of the IRS and repeal the 16th amendment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

This is the amendment that allows the fed gov't to levy taxes on income.. ratified in 1913.

If we didn't have taxes before 1913.. how did the gov't make $ for federal services such as tthe military?


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Offlinepabloescabar
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: BrAiN]
    #7542379 - 10/21/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think the government had a near as much power back then so they didn't need all our money. 1913 huh I wonder what world event we got involved in during that era that needed alot of money?


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Offlinexpl0de
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: pabloescabar]
    #7542431 - 10/21/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:bongload:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: xpl0de]
    #7542493 - 10/21/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

More pie in the sky nonsense. He continues to marginalize himself by living in sky castles.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: pabloescabar]
    #7542530 - 10/21/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pabloescabar said:
I don't think the government had a near as much power back then so they didn't need all our money. 1913 huh I wonder what world event we got involved in during that era that needed alot of money?




What are you implying?

That there was no war before the evil IRS came into being?

Ref: Spanish American War, Civil War, Mexican War, Tripolitan War, War of 1812, etc etc.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineWScott
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7542601 - 10/21/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think we should get back to the barter system. Grow vegetables and whatnot in our backyards and trade with neighbors. Improve funding to farms. Not only will your health be better off, but so will your pocketbooks. Not to mention improved neighborly relations.


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Offlinepeter19
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: WScott]
    #7542673 - 10/21/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i think they printed there own money(gov). im not sure but i think JFK wanted to abolish the IRS or fedral reserve and look what happened to him. im not a 100% on that though.


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“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: peter19]
    #7542988 - 10/21/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, they just printed money whenever they needed to pay someone off.

:rolleyes:

Christ, do a little research.

The 16th amendment is the one that levies an INCOME tax.  There are 1000 other taxes that the Federal Government have been able to turn to in order to finance things.  Sales Tax, Farm Tax, Gas Tax, Excise Tax, Tariffs, Property Tax, etc etc etc.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7543443 - 10/21/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Taxes have been around since the beginning. Importation taxes and such. Personal taxes Have been around too.


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: BrAiN]
    #7543663 - 10/21/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

originally it existed on alcohol, carriage, sugar and bacco taxes, predominately.

!812 sales taxes were implemented to fund the war with Brittian, only on luxury items though. Whatever that means, in 1817 after the war, congress removed all internal taxes and the government existed on tarriffs on imports.\

remember most govrnment was local then, as it should be now and the intentions of the fathers of america.

The first effort at income tax came in 1861, the civil war, it was a 3 percent tax on all who earned between 600 and 10,000 a year. If you made more than 10 g's it went to 5 and you were slapped with an inheritance tax. Tgis was all Union Specific, but don't get it twisted the Southerners also employed there own income taxes.

1872, the war was over and the tax was scourged, the seeds had however been planted and never again would congress relent of the visions of permanent income tax.

Feb 12, 1913, another day of infamy.


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7543698 - 10/21/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think it was 1943 when withholding was implemented, you no longer wrote your own checks, then government took it straight from your pay checks.

Thanks to a Disney Government Collaboration promising a "forgiving" of all taxes owed in 42 the people ate it up.

The next great evolution came in 82 when congress voted to include dividends and other sources of income susceptible to the withholding laws.

My dates may be off, its been a long time since I have had to call upon these little tidbits of tax law.


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Asshole


Edited by nakors_junk_bag (10/21/07 05:26 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: pabloescabar]
    #7544064 - 10/21/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pabloescabar said:
I don't think the government had a near as much power back then so they didn't need all our money. 1913 huh I wonder what world event we got involved in during that era that needed alot of money?





We didn't get into WWI until 1917.


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Offlinepabloescabar
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7544387 - 10/21/07 08:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

pabloescabar said:
I don't think the government had a near as much power back then so they didn't need all our money. 1913 huh I wonder what world event we got involved in during that era that needed alot of money?




What are you implying?

That there was no war before the evil IRS came into being?

Ref: Spanish American War, Civil War, Mexican War, Tripolitan War, War of 1812, etc etc.



I'm saying that once the feds get more money they can do alot more, like wage or join wars that aren't very necessary.


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Offlinepabloescabar
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: BrAiN]
    #7544395 - 10/21/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

pabloescabar said:
I don't think the government had a near as much power back then so they didn't need all our money. 1913 huh I wonder what world event we got involved in during that era that needed alot of money?





We didn't get into WWI until 1917.




Look up the definition for era. Last I checked things that happen 4 years apart are still in the same era


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: pabloescabar]
    #7544443 - 10/21/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You were implying that the amendment was used to raise funds for a way though


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: BrAiN]
    #7545001 - 10/21/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe I read somewhere that only 30% of the government's income is derived
from the personal income tax.

Part of Ron Paul's argument is that you can repeal it altogether if you cut
government spending by reducing the *imperialistic* footprint of America
overseas and dismantle some really pointless government agencies, returning
power back to the states.

I reckon the government makes money off business taxes, tariffs...shucks
what else...?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: afoaf]
    #7545758 - 10/22/07 04:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> shucks what else...?

illegal drugs.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: afoaf]
    #7545920 - 10/22/07 07:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh well.. shit.. I like the idea.. that's 30% more of my income that I get to keep.

From now on when ppl ask why I support ROn Paul.. instead of telling them that it's because he wants to save America $ by bringing all the troops home... I'm just going to tell them that he wants to eventually get rid of income taxes. :P

I mean shit..... If the dollar were stronger maybe they could make up the income by just selling more bonds.


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: Seuss]
    #7545954 - 10/22/07 07:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Is it possible that America could make more if drugs were legal then they make while they are illegal?

I mean there would be huge benefits, sells taxes, income taxes for all the jobs created. you know, stuff like that?


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Asshole


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: how did the U.S. get $ before the IRS [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #7546066 - 10/22/07 08:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
Is it possible that America could make more if drugs were legal then they make while they are illegal?

I mean there would be huge benefits, sells taxes, income taxes for all the jobs created. you know, stuff like that?




Maybe, maybe not. The way that I see it is that as long as shit is illegal, prices will be more elevated than if it's legal. If pot was legal I would have a basement full of it, as well as many other people I know. Not that I would sell any of it, as it would be all for personal use.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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