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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Question about genetic compatibility.
#7542326 - 10/21/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you multi-spore several jars, then place them together in the same casing, how does the DNA work itself out?
Does it happen like in a jar where the rhyzos meet and share info, becoming basically one organism, though spawned from different spores?
Or do fruits from the different jars fight to pin, competing for resources like individuals?
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
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They do not fight they join together.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7542377 - 10/21/07 11:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So it would be faster to use myc colonized from the same jar, used to knock up other jars via G2G, so they are already the same genes?
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



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They would have the same genes(allot) and would be faster since they dont have to germinate they can just start to colonize the media.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7542522 - 10/21/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So, as a way for noobs to accomplish this, without getting into cloning yet, would be to multi-spore one jar, then use that to knock up other jars, so that the genes are the same throughout when cased.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
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yea pretty much the only down side is that you prolly have about 50 diff substrains in that jar and will provide mixed results.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7543353 - 10/21/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Isn't a fully colonized jar one organism?
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syntroniks
Stranger Danger
Registered: 10/18/07
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not always if it comes from multiple spores
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orchidfanatic
retiree




Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 832
Loc: where the wild things are
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Isn't a fully colonized jar one organism?
I think yes but also no .. they are different slightly but still the same species .. when you isolate on agar you get a pure strain you have a better shot at them doing what you select them to do .. fast colonization , large fruits etc.....
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: Isn't a fully colonized jar one organism?
no. not at all.
only if it was colonized by an isolate.
a single jar/cake from a multispore inoculation can hold up to hundreds of strains. that's why multispores grows are always a crap shoot. part of the cake can make huge potent fruits and other parts will produce crappy, weak fruits. some strains don't even fruit at all.
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spock1
Stranger


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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7544341 - 10/21/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: spock1]
#7544463 - 10/21/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
spock1 said: Strains are variants of the species cubensis so they will join into one organism.. but if you put cubensis and cyanescens I think they would form an obvious barrier?
this is not entirely correct. not all cubes will just 'join' into a single organism...
the definition of strain is obviously misunderstood. I'm assuming you and others here think that PE is a strain. or that PESA or B+ or whatever is a strain... that's just not true at all. a strain is not defined by a name a vendor puts on a print.
a strain is when two compatible monokayrons (hyphae) "mate" to form dikaryotic mycelium. from that point on, it is a strain. it makes no difference if the spores or hyphae are from GT or if they are from B+, if they're of the same species, they're compatible.
so yes, they will fuse together through anastomosis, but not all of the time. a jar does not become a single dikaryon. not all dikaryons are compatible and capable of anastomosis with all other dikaryons. sometimes they decide to just live next to one another. zones of inhibition form between them.
so the truth is that most cakes and substrates from a multispore grow do indeed end up as several strains, not one. even if it is of the same species.
this explains the variations in multispore grows. how one flush can be potent and the next not so much, and so on...
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Captain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


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Posts: 648
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: monstermitch]
#7544668 - 10/21/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So one should clone to LC, then knock up a jar, when that jar is fully colonized use it to knock up other jars.
That would achieve identical DNA right?
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spock1
Stranger


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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#7544785 - 10/21/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
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Loc: Oregon, USA
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: spock1]
#7545084 - 10/21/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The term strain is rather loosely applied in the spore vending business. Race is more technically correct but no one seems to like this term (including myself). In my opinion, spore vendors use the term strain to indicate shared heritable characteristics from a common ancestor that distinguish it from the rest of the species. Unfortunately, even this definition is shaky as many "strains" of cubensis appear to be identical with no distinguishing characteristics other than their strain name.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Quote:
Captain Cubensis said: So one should clone to LC, then knock up a jar, when that jar is fully colonized use it to knock up other jars.
That would achieve identical DNA right?
no. please read my posts again. cloning is NOT isolating. a clone is not always, actually more rarely, a single strain.
Quote:
spock1 said: Even spore vendors use strain incorrectly? For a generically distinct strain are the spores called a strain or a variant? _____________________
Do different cubensis strains setup visible barriers like between mycelium and bacteria?
yes, the vendors are incorrectly using the term. yes, all of the strain names are a marketing ploy. no, they cannot deny this, it's the truth. a spore print will never be a single strain. the "strain names" are supposed to be geographic markers. explaining where in the world the shrooms were found originally. there are very few differing strains out there. not even PE will look like PE all of the time. some strains of PE look like normal shrooms, and they sporulate. __________________________
yes and no. if you'll read my post again, you'll see that I said that sometimes dikaryons (strains) will join up through anastomosis, and sometimes they won't. when they don't a zone of inhibition develops between the strains that can be see with the naked eye.
so sometimes yes.
Quote:
Workman said: The term strain is rather loosely applied in the spore vending business. Race is more technically correct but no one seems to like this term (including myself). In my opinion, spore vendors use the term strain to indicate shared heritable characteristics from a common ancestor that distinguish it from the rest of the species. Unfortunately, even this definition is shaky as many "strains" of cubensis appear to be identical with no distinguishing characteristics other than their strain name.
correct. race is really the proper term, but nobody likes it. so strain gets used in it's place and now everyone is confused on what a strain really is. and it makes it really hard to explain the genetic side of things too.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: monstermitch]
#7545220 - 10/21/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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A fun test that i did a while back was i took a mushroom cloned it and found out (when put on agar) i could easily see 3 totaly different sub strains within the same fruit!.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7545236 - 10/21/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
xaxphaanes said: A fun test that i did a while back was i took a mushroom cloned it and found out (when put on agar) i could easily see 3 totaly different sub strains within the same fruit!.
actually, it's three different strains, not substrains. but yes, you're correct. that's very, very common. I use cloning simply as a shortcut for isolation. that way I don't have to deal with non-fruiting strains and such.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist



Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Question about genetic compatibility. [Re: monstermitch]
#7545258 - 10/21/07 11:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol only reason for "substrain" is because it didnt look like the one in the picture lol.but yea strains it was a funny test i did quite a while back.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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