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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: Rahz]
#7543072 - 10/21/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you Rahz, and I thank those who 'got' what I am saying. As to my detractor[s], I have nothing to rebut. His is an excellent and timely illustration of the concrete mentality that I am speaking to - the uncritical repetition of Christian doctrinal statements with obvious righteous indignation and anger in its delivery. Need I say more.
The New Testament was written intentionally as a fulfillment of Old Testament prophesies, not as an accurate historical record of prophesies come to pass! This is what the unconscious multitudes take for miraculous fulfillment. I myself used to marvel at the 'odds' of having all these prophesises actually come to pass AS IF all the minutiae, like Roman centurians gambling at the foot of one of many crosses for the garment of Iesus. Great story, but written way way after the fact and a terrific sequel to the OT prophetic stories all coalescing on one Iesus ben Miriam. The Rev. John Shelby Spong said it best in his brilliant work: Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes.
I'd only add that I have had 29 years since receiving a Masters of Theological Studies from the United Methodist seminary at Drew University in which to contemplate the canonical Bible, the NT Apocrypha, the OT Pseudepigrapha and the Nag Hammadi library. So, as a note to my detractor[s]: I have been where you are, you are not where I AM. Every assumption of 'belief' is an unconscious assumption from which you need to awaken. May your love for Truth equip you for the journey.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7543081 - 10/21/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Commonly accepted knowledge, or commonly accepted superstition? Mythology changes.
Christianity has never changed. It is only human interpretation that has changed. Feel free to challange my interpretation, but don't say it changes all the time.
My interpretation is unlike catholic, orthodox, protestant, evangelical, or any other popular human interpretation that has not stood up to scripture.
My post was not long winded, it was not whiny, and if you want me to give "scholarly" evidence for the things I say, just ask. Let's move on.
The Truth is, that man was created in the image of God. But after what likeness was woman created? It is deep mystery, but I will tell you, because I want you to have understanding.
Woman was created in the image of Christ's church. This was based upon the foreknowledge of God. This is why woman can have only one husband. This is why Man is to honor his wife, as the weaker vessel. This is why woman is to submit to her husband. This is why Paul tells husbands to love their wifes like Christ loves the church.
Now please, don't forget it.
Christ loves his church, and he created woman in the Spirit of Love. He did not create her to be dominated by man like a dictator, but as a guiding authority and to strengthen her. it is in her weakness that women is found to be most cherished, and beautiful. And man's natural ability is to impart his strength to the woman to honor her, and to cherish her. It is incredibly sacred, and beautiful.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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The Truth is, that man was created in the image of God. But after what likeness was woman created? It is deep mystery, but I will tell you, because I want you to have understanding.
Woman was created in the image of Christ's church. This was based upon the foreknowledge of God. This is why woman can have only one husband. This is why Man is to honor his wife, as the weaker vessel. This is why woman is to submit to her husband. This is why Paul tells husbands to love their wifes like Christ loves the church.
Now please, don't forget it.
Pure hearsay. Now please, don't forget it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7543129 - 10/21/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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"it is in her weakness that women is found to be most cherished, and beautiful."
What does a woman such as yourself have to say about your own weak-willed, weak-minded, weak-bodied and weakly-loving nature, O thou subordinate xx chromosomal incubational humanoid unit? I'd really like you to address this statement. THIS is EXACTLY what I was writing about! This stuff needs to die right now! John Shelby Spong entitled one of his books so aptly: Christianity Must Change or Die.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Quote:
The Truth is, that man was created in the image of God. But after what likeness was woman created? It is deep mystery, but I will tell you, because I want you to have understanding.
Woman was created in the image of Christ's church.
Woman was creates in the image of Christ's church? I was not aware that the woman turned into existence only after Christ walked the Earth. I wonder how they kept reproducing until she came along. 
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This was based upon the foreknowledge of God.
Sources?
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This is why woman can have only one husband.
 I didn't know this either.  So Christianity allows men to have more than one wife? You're rewriting PAGES and pages of Christian dogma here. 
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This is why Man is to honor his wife, as the weaker vessel.
The weaker vessel? And who turned the woman in the weaker vessel? Christianity. Impotent puritans I might add. 
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This is why woman is to submit to her husband.
Why? Because the woman is weaker? This is NOT an argument. Using this logic, I could say that you MUST submit to a karate champion because you're way weaker than him.  Please do your homework and present real arguments, you're turning philosophy into a kindergarten drama. 
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This is why Paul tells husbands to love their wifes like Christ loves the church.
For which reason again? 
Quote:
Now please, don't forget it.
Christ loves his church, and he created woman in the Spirit of Love. He did not create her to be dominated by man like a dictator, but as a guiding authority and to strengthen her.
A guiding authority? These are antipoles
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it is in her weakness that women is found to be most cherished, and beautiful.
Yes... of course. Just like men who beat their wifes because they're SO much love worthy when vulnerable and defenseless. 
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And man's natural ability is to impart his strength to the woman to honor her, and to cherish her. It is incredibly sacred, and beautiful.
Sacred my ass. That's just sick.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7543186 - 10/21/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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My guess would be that we are "debating" with a VERY single man.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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palmersc
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Indeed it is beautiful to honor and cherish women as God intended them to be. The man should lay down his life for his woman.
Look at the past 50 years and see where men have failed to be men and women have failed to be women. More broken homes, homosexuality, and confusion about what it means to be a man or woman.
The fact is that women and men are different. It is a fact that women are the weaker of the two. They are not built like a man is. They are more sensitive and their femininity is something to be honored, not looked down upon. Women in todays society have degraded themselves from the beauty they once held.
The respect and honor they deserve is best illustrated by chivalry.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: Icelander]
#7543205 - 10/21/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: My guess would be that we are "debating" with a VERY single man.
Yup! I feel bad for him
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543221 - 10/21/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can I call on this. Women might be physically weaker but they are psychologically often much stronger IMO. You don't see any of the women here whining about some dead religion that is going to save them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said:
Quote:
Commonly accepted knowledge, or commonly accepted superstition? Mythology changes.
Christianity has never changed. It is only human interpretation that has changed.
Christianity does not exist but within the mind of each human individual. There is no singular Christianity, only the little reality bubbles of each individual who forms it for themself. Reality supports this viewpoint.
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My interpretation is unlike catholic, orthodox, protestant, evangelical, or any other popular human interpretation that has not stood up to scripture.
And yet your Christianity cannot be the one true representation of Christianity, as your entire perception of what Christianity is due to the interpretation of humans who have fallen before you, and passed along their interpretation to you.
You have no perceptual knowledge that substantiates the concept of Christianity, simply the ideas passed along through individuals, through the very avenues of belief that you state do not accord with Scripture, although some of those avenues of belief created Scripture.
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The Truth is, that man was created in the image of G*d.
Substantiation?
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But after what likeness was woman created? It is deep mystery, but I will tell you, because I want you to have understanding.
Woman and man are of the same. We are human. This is evidenced in the understanding of reality that we have attained through testable, predictive observations - not for asserting brazen, unsubstantiated "truth" about G*d and creation.
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Woman was created in the image of Christ's church. This was based upon the foreknowledge of God. This is why woman can have only one husband.
And why is that evidenced by that "fact"? Talk about a chasm jump.
G*d created women in the image of a church, so she can only have one husband. It almost makes a bit of sense.
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This is why Man is to honor his wife, as the weaker vessel.
How have you determined that women are weaker than men? It sounds like an idea that weaker men would like to hold over women to control them, out of the weak men's fear.
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Christ loves his church, and he created woman in the Spirit of Love.
No, Christ loves his disco, and he created men in the Spirit of Gay Sex.
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He did not create her to be dominated by man like a dictator, but as a guiding authority and to strengthen her.
And vice versa, but weak men wouldn't admit it.
It isn't for nothing.
Quote:
it is in her weakness that women is found to be most cherished, and beautiful.
Only by the sadistic.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543237 - 10/21/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
palmersc said: The fact is that women and men are different. It is a fact that women are the weaker of the two.
False. In what ways are they weaker?
Suggest one, so it can be discredited and ridiculed.
I'll even start for you. The idea of women being physically weaker then men. Not true. There are women that could kill a man physically. Women being physically weaker then men = false stereotype.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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palmersc
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: fireworks_god]
#7543247 - 10/21/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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would you feel more comfortable if it was you or your wife out walking alone at night?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543257 - 10/21/07 03:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't have a wife. I would feel more comfortable if it was both myself and my lady walking alone together at night, because then we could hold each other and kiss.
The methods in which you are attempting to gauge "strength" are incredibly limited and baseless.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: fireworks_god]
#7543268 - 10/21/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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palmersc
Stranger


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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: fireworks_god]
#7543280 - 10/21/07 03:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I feel like we want to view women as equals with men.
Now what sort of equality, I'm not sure. But I don't want to get in bed with a Green Bay Packer.
We have different strengths and weaknesses, and together we can strengthen each other. The man is the head of the family, and takes responsibility for women and children. Else he is no man in my opinion.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543298 - 10/21/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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And of course the woman defers to the man like the church unto christ, right?
This is the line from men who fear women and seek to pacify their fears. Yep men are the stronger sex all right.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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palmersc
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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: Icelander]
#7543345 - 10/21/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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We live in an emasculated society and women are rebelling out of confusion. Without true masculinity, there can be no femininity.
Masculinity is not overbearing or domineering. It is supportive and protective.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543359 - 10/21/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
palmersc said: would you feel more comfortable if it was you or your wife out walking alone at night?
What is this supposed to mean, exactly? I walked home alone at midnight last night after parting ways with my new lover. It was a lovely walk that took nearly an hour, and not one moment did I fear for my safety. He didn't fear for my safety when we diverged either. Women may tend to be less physically massive, but that doesn't mean we don't have a few tricks up our sleeves if we need them. I'm fond of the eye gouge, the throat punch and the knee-to-the-testicles. The myth that women are defenseless weaklings that need men to protect them is silly, sexist and irritating. Get over it. Wouldn't you rather your 'wife' take a self defense course and feel confident than desperately cling to you to save her? Or is your sense of masculinity bound up in being percieved as her protector?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543362 - 10/21/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
palmersc said: I feel like we want to view women as equals with men.
Of course we do, we humans like to realize reality for what it is, in order to benefit ourselves, and reality. 
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We have different strengths and weaknesses...
Every individual has different strengths and weaknesses, which have nothing to do with whether an individual is a man or a woman. Beyond physical characteristics that are distinctly inherent within a man and a woman, the only other differences in regards to strengths and weaknesses are of one's personality and physical variation, which does not fit within a generalized "male" or "female" label.
One individuals strengths and weaknesses complement each other. The individual strengths and weaknesses within a relationship complement each other.
The notion that the man is the head of the family, and has more responsibility for the woman and children is false and unsubstantiated. Your opinion has no bearing on reality, only yourself. Reality does not correspond to your baseless prejudice.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



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Re: The Deification of Masculinity [Re: palmersc]
#7543365 - 10/21/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
palmersc said: We live in an emasculated society and women are rebelling out of confusion. Without true masculinity, there can be no femininity.
Masculinity is not overbearing or domineering. It is supportive and protective.
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Do you enjoy holding delusions of grandeur?
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