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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7544226 - 10/21/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Leanin said:
rofl TWO JUMBO JETS HIT THE TOWERS.

I WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME EXPLOSIONS....JUST MAYBE? ROFLS









Oh my god, you can see the face of santa in that picture. I think the gods are angry at us.


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Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7545056 - 10/21/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Visionary Tools said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
1. America isn't a fascist state and I find it likely you don't even know the definition of "fascism".





1: http://www.mvp-seattle.com/pages/pageFascism.htm





This made me laugh, because instead of showing that you actually know what fascism means, you just give him a link, making yourself look like a [censored for pub].


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #7545077 - 10/21/07 10:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The page that comes up when you click the link isn't an article. It has a bunch of pictures and titles that illustrate what he is talking about. For people the might not know what fascism is (I didn't really know) its probably the easiest way of putting it.

Laugh all you want. I see a lot of condescending posts from the non-'conspiracy theorists' and I think that in a matter like this, it speaks volumes.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: WScott]
    #7545903 - 10/22/07 07:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes,
We don't truly know either way but I feel some people are open-minded, some are closed minded and some are admitting they don't have a clue.

Fact is in any topic of debate - if your certain then you are flawed. I will always remain open to new evidence, to changing my opinion.

You can see when someones defending a dead opinion just because their ego will not allow them to accept that they are wrong!!!

I don't know what really happened, but it seems there is a hell of a lot of controversy in this subject. If I was to lean one way slightly then I lead towards the conspiracy side because theres a lot of stuff that suggests SOMETHING is being covered up. The way they hid stuff after the event.

I also remember one of the structural engineers at collage telling me how is lecture had said to him "I'm no conspiracy theorist but that looks like a controlled demolition"

Shroomism is also correct in that other buildings have been hit by planes and didn't collapse in that manner. Coinidence? Possibly! But why are there so many coincidences on this subject....

I think we should talk solely about the pentagon being hit - It seemed to be highly covered up from media - it never even made it to UK media like the towers did. That part of the whole story seems really dodgy. What happened to Air Force 1 - you'd think a country with so much military power would notice and intercept a plane heading for the pentagon!

What happened to the wreckage of the plane and why do we only see one turbine that wasn't a turbine engine for the plane that they said hit it?!


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Ego Death]
    #7545915 - 10/22/07 07:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

was their ever a death toll on the pentagon hit? wasn't it a wing that was blocked off for remodeling??

if so here is a "theory", "if" they demo'ed the trade centers, wouldn't it look nice to show another building that is still standing that got hit by a plane? you know so you could say hey look at the pentagon and how much damage it did.

and you know whats funny, i havn't seen one person suggest that maybe the trade center was demo'ed to save lifes/keep it from falling onto other buildings. the problem was their was still people in the building and they couldn't answer to all the familys that they blew them up.


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

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Invisiblewps
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7546036 - 10/22/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, keeping it from falling on other buildings, good point :thumbup:

anyone ever played JENGA?  I keep thinking about that.  At the end, the tower collapses and pieces go everywhere- all over the table, even underneath the table on the floor.  They certainly don't collapse in a nice, neat little pile contained within a tiny radius.


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: wps] * 1
    #7546078 - 10/22/07 09:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I always hear about the missile pentagon thing. Even if it was a conspiracy, it would still be more convenient just to use the damn plane to hit the building anyway, it would be getting rid of a plane and all the passengers. There's no logic behind the missile conspiracy.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Maverick]
    #7546183 - 10/22/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The logic was that there was apparently no plane wreckage apart from one turbine and that a plane wouldn't of made a hole like that or penetrated the reinforcements like that.

Completely made up?

I dunno but it seems fishy.

A better question could be why do so many Americans and other people world wide suspect the government of orchestrating this?


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: jccc]
    #7546217 - 10/22/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jccc said:
Have any of you who belive the consircy bullshit visited ground zero?? what about actually loosing loved ones in the twin towers?

After you go through both those things, then you try come and say you think it was a goverment set up...
It wasnt...
George Bush may be a shitty president but all the top end govt. officials arnt going to all agree to kill innocent Americans! THis is not Hitler were talking about...





I'd have to disagree with you completely. There are plenty of 9/11 victims' (people who died in the twin towers, both civilians and firefighters/police) families who are calling for a new investigation. For you to say that anyone who lost a family member finds those who question the "official" account of 9/11 an abomination need to check your sources.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: wps]
    #7546372 - 10/22/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You know they are still finding body parts in NYC. I think they found a hand on a roof top just this past year.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Ego Death] * 1
    #7546415 - 10/22/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
The logic was that there was apparently no plane wreckage apart from one turbine and that a plane wouldn't of made a hole like that or penetrated the reinforcements like that.




This is absolutely false.

Dont spread misinformation, it just makes you look dumb.

Quote:


FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"




But yes, I'm sure she's a paid government stooge and those were actually pig parts that were loaded onto the missile before it was launched in order to make it look like an actual plane had it.

Geez. Cant you people see that all of your pet theories are 1000X more complicated than what actually happened?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: trippindad82]
    #7546462 - 10/22/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

One problem I see with this post is that both sides are being blind to each other. I will admit that I am a conspiracy theorist, but my background in school leads me to be as such.

Both sides of the website 9/11 debate from those sites who support the conspiracy to those who support the official story both ignore events that took place before, during, and after that day.

I believe that extremists overtook three (maybe four) flights and crashed them into buildings. However, those attacks were not aimed at the American people, those attacks were aimed at the American imperial establishment....i.e. the WTC towers (the business side of imperialism) and the Pentagon (the military side of imperialism). I know for a fact that those plains hit the buildings. However, like I said I don't exactly buy the official story, nor do I buy the fairytale story of hatred towards me and not "my" govt.

I believe that the govt knew about the attacks long before they happened. I also wouldn't put it past a certain agency employed by the govt to hire out the attacks themselves. I think that certain persons took advantage of what was going to occur on this day. And for those who call me nuts and think our govt would never be complicit in something like this, I give you this to mull over.

FDR knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. As a whole, the US citizens wanted no part of WWII, however, those who funded his campaign to get him reelected felt differently about the war than the american people. This includes many of the major corporations that profited from both sides of the war. Prescott Bush's name even comes up in this history. 11 days before Pearl Harbor, FDR knew about the attack. He allowed it to happen to get America into WWII.

Before the election campaign to get Bush/Cheney and criminals elected, Cheney and many other Neocons supported (and some participated) the writing of a book which laid out the road map of what would be done, if another Pearl Harbor was to happen while one of these shmucks was in office. Sure enough, their election scam pulled off thanks to some people who were later rewarded for their dedication to the Bush family mission. And within the first year of office, BOOM!!! They get their Pearl Harbor. Just a little coincidental if you were to ask me, but hey I don't know ANYTHING.

Then there is the fact that the USA PATRIOT ACT was written in advance. And to add to the charm, passed under anthrax scare early in the morning with govt produced anthrax. Of course, these are all coincidences that have nothing to do with one another.

At the same time, I would love to find out that the terrorists really did this and it all happened according to the official story. Although that really won't help clean up this administrations outright lies, fuck ups, and secrecy. All they would need to do to change half of America's view is OPEN THE DAMN FILES FOR PUBLIC REVIEW. Stop being secretive.

I can see it now. I get busted for some crime and taken to trial. The prosecutor shows "all" of the evidence to the jury. Then later in the trial, the prosecution admits that they kept some evidence from jury view, but not to worry because on the prosecutions word, the hidden "evidence" points to the fact that I did indeed commit the crime. Well, if I did indeed commit the crime and you have evidence which "proves" that I did, wouldn't you want to use all of the evidence against me? Or is that now how investigations work??? Why hide and destroy evidence unless you have something to hide? If I want to examine the evidence for my own research, why would you not let me if the evidence points to the "official" answer? I am sure many criminals would LOVE to be able to control what evidence is used in trials against them. But then no one would be convicted.

"Just take my word, I didn't do it."

Oh, then he must be innocent.

"Just take my word, THEY did it."

Oh, then they MUST have done it.


And phred, I respect your posts as you don't just spout shit from your asshole, unlike some other posters on this site. But here, take a look here. I find it interesting that this site filled with licensed, practicing engineers and architects (especially the guy from earthquake prone northern california) is ALWAYS ignored by the 9/11 debunkers. Why? (this question isn't directed only at you phred). And like this site says, for future buildings, wouldn't it be helpful to find out EXACTLY what happened to those buildings on 9/11 so that future disasters like this can be avoided? Just for scientific and educational reasons, shouldn't all evidence from 9/11 be available for public scrutiny?

And one more thing. I have seen a number of people on this site state that the conspiracy theorists are ignoring the scientific method. I would have to disagree. For those people who say that a super laser from space took out the buildings, they ARE fucking nuts. BUT, there are many people who have completed experiments to PROVE their theories. Even NIST's report ignores the scientific method and starts with the answer and worked backwards to prove how it happened. And even in the report, their experiments didn't support their "answer". But any experiment that didn't work was ignored. I'd have to say that the "official" investigations have completely ignored the scientific method.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: trippindad82]
    #7546518 - 10/22/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FDR knew about the attack. He allowed it to happen to get America into WWII.




Proof please. Thanks.

As far as it relates to 9/11, Troofers have a motive but as always, no evidence. That is quite a leap. It helps to be well grounded in logic and critical thinking skills before taking this type of journey.

They are working backwards from their conclusion rather than following the evidence where it leads them. That is no way to get at the truth but rather the well worn path of delusion.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: trippindad82]
    #7546530 - 10/22/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A few questions that are completely separate from the above post:


1. Who attacked us on 9/11???
(I thought it was Bin Laden through Al Qaeda?)

2. If Bin Laden is blamed, then why no mention of it here?
(http_://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm)


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



Edited by trippindad82 (10/22/07 11:48 AM)


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: trippindad82]
    #7546619 - 10/22/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

William Rodriguez, WTC janitor who had a master key to the two towers and saved numerous people before they came down, experienced a massive explosion coming from one of the sub-basement levels BEFORE the first plane hit. Anyone who thinks that only the planes brought down the towers needs to listen to his story... unless they want to remain in total ignorance.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Clean]
    #7546628 - 10/22/07 12:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"Rodriguez also complains that his accounts of events have been ignored by official investigative bodies. Yet, when given the opportunity to put his observations on the public record with investigators from NIST - the very body investigating the cause of the collapse of the twin towers - he said not a word about explosives planted in the basement."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rodriguez


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7546680 - 10/22/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've seen William give a live talk (for free) and he talked extensively about the basement explosions and secondary explosions after the planes hit.

The only way to clarify this apparent discrepancy would be to contact William himself and ask him about it.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7546797 - 10/22/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

FDR knew about the attack. He allowed it to happen to get America into WWII.




Proof please. Thanks.





Honestly.

9/11'ers say this all the time, but it just isn't true...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineStizzle
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7547224 - 10/22/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is no smoking gun on the Pearl Harbor thing but an interesting quote by Vice Admiral Frank E. Beatty

Quote:


Prior to December 7, it was evident even to me... that we were pushing Japan into a corner. I believed that it was the desire of President Roosevelt, and Prime Minister Churchill that we get into the war, as they felt the Allies could not win without us and all our efforts to cause the Germans to declare war on us failed; the conditions we imposed upon Japan — to get out of China, for example — were so severe that we knew that nation could not accept them. We were forcing her so severely that we could have known that she would react toward the United States. All her preparations in a military way — and we knew their over-all import — pointed that way.





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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7547237 - 10/22/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

FDR knew about the attack. He allowed it to happen to get America into WWII.




Proof please. Thanks.





Honestly.

9/11'ers say this all the time, but it just isn't true...




I would have to disagree again. For those who want proof, google it. However, when my nephew's state approved history text book states that FDR had advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor, I'd have to say that it is fact.

Almost every war America has been engaged in from the Spanish American war on has some little nuance of either foreknowledge or even self inflicted damage to start the war.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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