Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | Next >
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543093 - 10/21/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And lots of people report not seeing an airplane hitting the pentagon, but what looked like a missile.




Source?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: WScott]
    #7543096 - 10/21/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WScottsdale said:
Redstorm,

On what do you base that?




I base it on the fact that either side could be wrong.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Clean]
    #7543100 - 10/21/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Authoritarianism is inherent in gov't.




How do you figure?

It is my impression that no matter how you dress it, the nature of government is authority.




Isn't that what I just said?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543120 - 10/21/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Shroomism, the problem you have is that you are uncritically accepting the koolaid the Troofers are serving. Everything you have mentioned so far is either flatout wrong (the towers didn't collapse at "near free-fall speed", as just one example) or is readily explainable by simple application of the laws of physics.

I already posted these links earlier in the thread. I guess you missed them.


http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

These are just two of dozens of internet sites that convincingly handle every question I have seen raised in this thread. For that matter, they handle every question I've ever seen raised anywhere.

I swear if I read one more time about "near free-fall" speed and "explosive squibs" I'll lose it and seriously flame someone and end up getting banned.

What drives me nuts is the pious righteousness that those folks slinging the Troofer koolaid exhibit -- their insistence that the only reason no one takes their silliness seriously is that we're too lazy to look into the situation for ourselves, and content to lap up whatever BushCo spoonfeeds us. Well guess what, guys? The reverse is actually the case. Those of us who have actually expended more energy than sparking a bowl or two while gazing at some Unfastened Coins video on youtube; those of us who have actually expended some effort to find the answers to these same stupid questions posed over and over again, can do more than just parrot the same tired old "questions" prisonplanet and infowars trot out over and over and over again, we can actually answer them.

You guys claim all you are doing is looking for answers? Go to one of those links and read the answers. It's that simple.



Phred


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543149 - 10/21/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.

Every generation needs a new revolution.

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Happy for us, that when we find our constitutions defective and insufficient to secure the happiness of our people, we can assemble with all the coolness of philosophers and set it to rights, while every other nation on earth must have recourse to arms to amend or to restore their constitutions.

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.

History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.

I do not take a single newspaper, nor read one a month, and I feel myself infinitely the happier for it.

I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

I have seen enough of one war never to wish to see another.

I have sworn upon the alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.

If God is just, I tremble for my country.

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.

Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.

It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.

Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.

Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

No government ought to be without censors; and where the press is free no one ever will.

One man with courage is a majority.

Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

Politics is such a torment that I advise everyone I love not to mix with it.

Power is not alluring to pure minds.

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper.

The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

The earth belongs to the living, not to the dead.

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.

The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.

We did not raise armies for glory or for conquest.

We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.

Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.

Wisdom I know is social. She seeks her fellows. But Beauty is jealous, and illy bears the presence of a rival.


- Thomas Jefferson.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Redstorm]
    #7543154 - 10/21/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

And lots of people report not seeing an airplane hitting the pentagon, but what looked like a missile.




Source?




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWakeboardrB
Pepe Silvia
Male


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 13,678
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Phred]
    #7543169 - 10/21/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Shroomism, the problem you have is that you are uncritically accepting the koolaid the Troofers are serving. Everything you have mentioned so far is either flatout wrong (the towers didn't collapse at "near free-fall speed", as just one example) or is readily explainable by simple application of the laws of physics.

I already posted these links earlier in the thread. I guess you missed them.


http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

These are just two of dozens of internet sites that convincingly handle every question I have seen raised in this thread. For that matter, they handle every question I've ever seen raised anywhere.

I swear if I read one more time about "near free-fall" speed and "explosive squibs" I'll lose it and seriously flame someone and end up getting banned.

What drives me nuts is the pious righteousness that those folks slinging the Troofer koolaid exhibit -- their insistence that the only reason no one takes their silliness seriously is that we're too lazy to look into the situation for ourselves, and content to lap up whatever BushCo spoonfeeds us. Well guess what, guys? The reverse is actually the case. Those of us who have actually expended more energy than sparking a bowl or two while gazing at some Unfastened Coins video on youtube; those of us who have actually expended some effort to find the answers to these same stupid questions posed over and over again, can do more than just parrot the same tired old "questions" prisonplanet and infowars trot out over and over and over again, we can actually answer them.

You guys claim all you are doing is looking for answers? Go to one of those links and read the answers. It's that simple.



Phred




Thank you Phred. I always enjoy reading your posts.


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Redstorm]
    #7543199 - 10/21/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"It was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed into the Pentagon," Mike Walter, an eyewitness, told CNN




Quote:

DNA is an organic molecule that is very fragile, easily destroyed by high temperatures. Not finding the large metallic pieces that would indicate a Boeing 757, the government explained that they were burned up in the intense blaze that consumed the aircraft. Then how does human tissue survive when 600 lb metal engines cannot? Can't have it both ways. So how trustworthy can the government evidence be?




Quote:

Two high profile radiation experts concur Pentagon strike involved use of a missile. Also Geiger counter readings right after the attack shows high levels of radiation 12 miles away from Pentagon crash site.

A radiation expert and high-ranking Army Major, who once headed the military's depleted uranium project, both contend the Pentagon was hit by missile, not a commercial jetliner, adding high radiation readings after the strike indicate depleted uranium also may have been used.

"I'm not an explosives or crash site expert, but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used," said radiation expert Leuren Moret in a telephone conversation this week from her Berkeley, CA home.

Moret, who has spent a life time working in the nuclear field, first as a staff scientist at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory in California, is now a member of The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP), a privately funded group studying the devastating effects of depleted uranium especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Regarding the missile theory, it is also backed up by retired Army Maj. Doug Rokke, a PhD educational physics and former top military expert banished from the Pentagon after the military failed to follow regulations regarding the use, clean up and medical treatment regarding the use of depleted uranium.

"When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile," said Maj. Rokke from his Rantoul, IL home this week. "And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile. Also, if you look at the WTC and the disturbing flash hitting the tower right before the impact of the airplane, it also looks like a missile was used."

And to prove the government's jetliner theory is wrong, Moret said the quick actions of a friend near the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11, provide even more suspicion.

Moret recalls on the tragic morning that once she saw the jetliner strike the twin towers and then heard about the Pentagon crash, she immediately called a close friend in Alexandria VA, Dr. Janette Sherman.

Thinking radiation might be involved, she quickly asked Dr. Sherman, 77, a radiation expert and medical doctor who lived about 12 miles from the crash site, to get a Geiger counter reading.

What the pair of experts found is astonishing. What they found is not only astonishing but four years after 9/11, what's even more incredible is that their findings have been completely ignored by most everyone, including the Bush administration, the 9/11 Commission and the mainstream media, all who appear more interested in rubber stamping the official 9/11 story then getting at the real truth.

"Dr. Sherman was downwind from the Pentagon on 9/11 and her Geiger counter readings show an extremely high reading, a reading of more than eight to ten times higher than normal," said Moret, also an expert in the cause and effects of depleted uranium.

"Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away."

After notifying the Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency (NIRS), experts from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the FBI were alerted and according to Moret, radiation experts later confirmed high radiation levels at the Pentagon crash site possibly from the presence from depleted uranium or other unknown causes.

But what disturbed Moret most has been the Bush administration's lack of concern and its failure to mount a thorough investigation into what really caused the high radiation levels, saying perhaps the findings might reveal something contrary to the official story that a jetliner rammed through 12 Pentagon walls of solid concrete.

"Even if there was depleted uranium used, do you think the likes of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would really care? These are bottom feeders that 20 or 30 years ago wouldn't have been even allowed to set foot in such high positions of power," said Moret.

Although Dr. Sherman's Geiger counter can't be a conclusive finding, another nuclear radiation expert, Marion Fulk, agrees the positive reading, if anything, is suspicious.

"It definitely looks suspicious but of course many factors have to be considered before a conclusion is reached," said Fulk in a telephone conversation this week. "The type of Geiger counter used by Dr. Sherman needs to be looked at as well as the possibility of the true source of the radiation, whether it is depleted uranium in a missile, ballast in the airplane or within the structure of the building hit."

Even though no one can be sure, one thing positive is the Bush administration never really seriously cared about addressing the possibility of depleted uranium at the Pentagon just like it cares little about the same problem at the World Trade Center and in the war fields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And, more recently, Moret, Fulk and Maj. Rokke, along with Dennis Kyne, Bob Jones and Mark Zeller, have provided documentation for an explosive video written and produced by Joyce Riley and William Lewis called "Beyond Treason," providing an in depth look at depleted uranium used in the Gulf Wars and its likelihood of causing numerous civilian and military illnesses.

"It has been determined that the equivalent of more than 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released in the middle east since 1991," said Moret, citing a report and subsequent speech at a 2000 depleted uranium conference given by Professor Yagasaki, a physicist and well-respected nuclear radiation expert.

And in the 89 minute video, exploring a massive government cover up, Riley and Lewis point out the unexplained illnesses in civilians and military personal may be the cause of depleted uranium or perhaps a combination of overlapping causes, including chemical and biological exposure and the use of experimental vaccines.

The writers of Beyond Treason, added:

"The ailing Gulf War heroes from all 27 coalition countries slowly die from of "unknown causes," they wait for answers from their respective governments, but no satisfying or even credible answers have come forth from the military establishment. Records that span over a decade point to negligence and even culpability on the part of the U.S. Department of Defense and their disposable army" mentality.

"The VA has determined that 250,000 troops are now permanently disabled, 15,000 troops are dead and over 425,000 are ill and slowly dying from what the Department of Defense still calls a mystery disease. How many more will have to die before action is taken?"

And in February, 2004, a conference called "Dialogues with Decision Makers" was held in New Delhi, India, where a group of experts gathered for the prevention of nuclear war and looked closely at the depleted uranium problem in the Middle East.

Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, former chief of the Naval Staff in India, reported the following shocking details about the effects of depleted uranium:

"In the 2003 war, the Iraqi's were subjected to the Pentagon's radioactive arsenal, mainly in the urban centers, unlike in the deserts in 1991. The aggregate effects of illnesses and long term disabilities and genetic birth defects will be apparent only 2008 onwards. "By now, half of all the 697,000 US soldiers involved in the 1991 war have reported serious illnesses. According the American Gulf War Veterans Association, more than 30% of these soldiers are chronically ill, and receiving disability benefits from the Veterans Administration.

"Near the Republican Palace where US troops stood guard and over 1000 employees walked in and out, the radiation readings were the hottest in Iraq, at nearly 1900 times background radiation levels.

"At a roadside stand, selling fresh bunches of parsley, mint, and onions, children played on a burnt out Iraqi tank just outside Baghdad, the Geiger counter registered 1000 times normal background radiation.

"The Pentagon and the United Nations estimate that the US and Britain used 1,100 to 2,200 tons of armor piercing shells made of DU during attacks in March-April 2003, far more than the 1991 Gulf War (this does not include air dispensed DU munitions and missiles)," wrote the Post Intelligencer.

"The long term effects, as Dr Asaf Durakovic elaborates, after the early neurological symptoms are cancer, and related radiation illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome, joint and muscle pain, neurological and/or nerve damage, mood disturbances, auto-immune deficiencies, lung and kidney damage, vision problems, skin rupture, increase in miscarriages, maternal mortality and genetic birth defects/deformation.

"For years the US government described the Gulf War Syndrome as a post traumatic stress disorder. It was labeled as a psychological problem or simply as mysterious unrelated ailments much in the same way as health problems of Vietnam veterans suffering from Agent Orange poisoning."


For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com. Greg Szymanski Powered by CityMak

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/31824.htm

"It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the MISSILE to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them."

Donald Rumsfeld answering Parade Magazine reporter Lyric Wallwork Winik in Pentagon Press Conference Oct.12, 2001. (Posted on the Pentagon website)

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/rumsfeld-warnings.htm





Have some links.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight77Witnesses.shtml

Rumsfeld slips up -www.democrats.com/node/5056+missile+hit+the+pentagon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us&client=firefox-a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:RX_LRKf9WPwJ:www.democrats.com/node/5056+missile+hit+the+pentagon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us&client=firefox-a


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Phred]
    #7543286 - 10/21/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure I know what a "Troofer" is and I don't know what Kool-Aid you are referring to. If you are implying that I am a mindless drone of some cult here to drink something laced with deadly poisons, I find that rather insulting.

However I did take some time to look over your sites, and I must say a lot of it struck me as personal opinion and government sponsored propaganda. They don't have all the answers, as hard as they try. But they do have a lot of speculation and disclaimers stating this may or may not be the truth. Same old BS.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543303 - 10/21/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are you kidding?

You people are raling about the WTC 7 collapse and how it was a controlled demolition, etc etc.

There are about 100 quotes on the first website that Phred posted from people who actually were physically a part of the process that say why it is all bullshit.

Is this hearsay? Fabrication? Are these people imaginary?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7543313 - 10/21/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I never said anything about WTC 7. I did however say something about the twin towers and how they couldn't have fallen just from a plane hitting them. Those people however, could very well be imaginary, or paid off.

Not to mention who hijacked the planes and masterminded the whole thing in the first place.

Our government is not as stupid as people think they are.

Yeah, Bush is a moron. But he doesn't run the country.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543341 - 10/21/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How do you know they couldn't have fallen from an aircraft hitting them?

The ego in that statement is insane.

You aren't any kind of structural engineer. You're a pothead musician. You don't have any more insight into this than Charlie Brown. And you refuse to believe anyone who DOES have that kind of insight, because their "The Man"

How can you argue with logic like that...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineVisionary Tools
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543371 - 10/21/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
PS. Remember the Anthrax scare shortly after 911?

- Why were mostly journalists and politicians targetted? Journalists and politicians who were asking too many questions.

- Why did that specific strain of Anthrax come from a government controlled lab within the US?

Go back to sleep America.
The terrorists are coming to get you.




Hey! Don't mention things like that or operation northwoods. Those sorts of things can't be easily explained away. [sarcasm]Mention holographic planes, or UFO's.

Aliens attacked the world trade centre. And they are working for the government.[/sarcasm]


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewps
Well-PaidScientist
Male

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 579
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Phred]
    #7543397 - 10/21/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
kriminalelement writes:

Quote:

1. I wasn't there.
2. I didn't personally collect any evidence supporting any particular theory
3. Since I wasn't involved in this in any way, nor did I collect any evidence personally, I can't make a determination one way or another.




You can say that about pretty much everything in life. Do you have an opinion on whether or not men walked on the moon in the late Sixties and early Seventies? How about the invasion of Normandy in 1944? No opinion on that one way or the other?





come on, now.  You can match graphs, quotes, and physics theories with the other side all you want, but why harass someone for simply admitting they don't know and could never know what really happened without being there? 

I think an attitude of skepticism towards all 'data' relevant to this issue is perfectly healthy, no matter which side it comes from.  I don't rule out the possibility that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are fucking nutbars, but at the same time I don't rule out the possibility that the government and the media are fucking liars. 

Its one of those things where, short of personally undertaking the studies to become an expert and having access to all the relevant data, I seriously doubt most people will ever know what really happened.  Its kind of a matter of whose 'expert testimony' you believe.  I love how everyone becomes a physics expert every time this discussion comes up. 

You ask me what I believe about 9/11 and I'll tell you I have no idea.  I don't necessarily believe the conspiracy stories, but I sure as hell don't 100% swallow the official line, either.  And the reason I say 'I don't know' is because I don't have the time and energy to become an expert in physics, architecture, and aviation and spend my whole life analyzing binders and binders of 3rd hand data trying to develop an expert opinion.  What's wrong with that attitude?

because if you think I should automatically trust the official line more than some whacko's pet theory, you obviously have more respect for the government and media than I do.  You obviously have a predisposition to believe 'the official story' and are preaching this attitude to others.  Almost as if you were COINTELPRO, infiltrating counterculture societies in order to plant seeds of doubt. 
:wink: :tinfoil: :lol:


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7543497 - 10/21/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And I also saw little explosions in the videos all over the sides right before and as it was coming down.




Those were not explosions but air from the upper floors being compressed from the collapse and blown down and out of the windows carrying smoke and debris with it. Exactly what would be expected from such a collapse.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7543502 - 10/21/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Your logic has no place here!


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: wps]
    #7543566 - 10/21/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wps writes:

Quote:

You can match graphs, quotes, and physics theories with the other side all you want, but why harass someone for simply admitting they don't know and could never know what really happened without being there?




There was no harassment, just pointing out correctly that all her points regarding "not being there" apply equally to just about everything that goes on and has gone on in the world.

Very very little of what you (or anyone else) know about the world was acquired through observing with your own eyes or performing experiments yourself. You got that knowledge from other people.

Quote:

I think an attitude of skepticism towards all 'data' relevant to this issue is perfectly healthy, no matter which side it comes from. I don't rule out the possibility that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are fucking nutbars, but at the same time I don't rule out the possibility that the government and the media are fucking liars.




And I disagree. It's one thing to go through life with an open mind and quite another thing indeed to walk around with your mind so wide open that it falls out your ears when you bend over. Is it 100% impossible that the whole thing was set up by the US government? Only in the sense that theoretically pretty much everything is possible. It is possible, for example, that all we know about human physiology is dead wrong, and that the reason your eyes follow the lines of text has nothing to do with your mind controlling muscles attached to your eyeballs -- instead they are moved by incredibly tiny invisible monkeys pulling invisible cables attached to an invisible pulley system. Similarly, any physicist familiar with quantum mechanics will tell you it is possible that two or three of the electrons of various atoms which make up your body are currently whizzing around somewhere out beyond the orbit of Saturn. Highly improbable, mind you (there are no words in any language to accurately describe just how improbable), but possible.

What counts is how plausible something is. What is the probability that the whole thing was set up by the US government rather than fanatic Islamic nutjobs? When you look at all the evidence, the probability that it was the government is maybe 0.00000000000001 per cent. Not technically impossible, but so close to it that it might as well be.

Quote:

Its one of those things where, short of personally undertaking the studies to become an expert and having access to all the relevant data, I seriously doubt most people will ever know what really happened. Its kind of a matter of whose 'expert testimony' you believe. I love how everyone becomes a physics expert every time this discussion comes up.




But that's the thing. No one has to be a physics "expert" to understand how the towers fell. None of this will strain the mental resources of anyone exposed to high school science.

Besides, in order to rule out the "Truther" point of view, we don't even have to use physics. Common sense and Occam's Razor do the job handily. It is as close to impossible as you can possibly get in this world to come up with a team of a few hundred or so people evil enough and possessed of the requisite ninja mind-blanking skillz necessary to keep the fifty thousand or so people who worked in those towers from noticing that they were ripping cladding off girders and strapping thousands of charges and detonators to them over the course of weeks or months.

Quote:

You ask me what I believe about 9/11 and I'll tell you I have no idea. I don't necessarily believe the conspiracy stories, but I sure as hell don't 100% swallow the official line, either. And the reason I say 'I don't know' is because I don't have the time and energy to become an expert in physics, architecture, and aviation and spend my whole life analyzing binders and binders of 3rd hand data trying to develop an expert opinion.




You needn't do any of that. See above.

Quote:

because if you think I should automatically trust the official line more than some whacko's pet theory, you obviously have more respect for the government and media than I do.




Automatically? Of course not. Verify for yourself to the extent possible. That's what I have done. But don't try to tell me you give the same weight to some whacko's pet theory that you do to your own common sense, because you don't. There are people who are convinced the towers were brought down by top secret directed-energy weapons. I shit you not. Do you give the same weight to that possibility as you do to the possibility that hijacked planes brought them down? Of course you don't.

Quote:

You obviously have a predisposition to believe 'the official story' and are preaching this attitude to others.




Dead wrong, sonny. I'm an old fart in comparison to most of the younguns who post here. I am well aware that government officials can lie. I cut my political teeth on the Watergate hearings. I was glued to the screen for hours each day watching them. I heard Bill CLinton claiming he "never had sex with that woman", too. But the "theory" that Islamic nutjobs hijacked planes and crashed them into buildings isn't a government "theory" of what happened, it's what happened. And that's all that had to happen for the towers to collapse. They weren't made of freaking kryptonite or indestructabilium or something, after all.

None of the engineers who wrote the NIST report expressed surprise the towers collapsed. Quite the reverse. Some of them say it's a testament to the quality of the construction done (over-engineered, the term is) that they lasted as long as they did. They would have expected them to collapse sooner than they actually did.

The only predisposition I have is to use common sense coupled with a bit of followup research.



Phred


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWakeboardrB
Pepe Silvia
Male


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 13,678
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #7543923 - 10/21/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
PS. Remember the Anthrax scare shortly after 911?

- Why were mostly journalists and politicians targetted? Journalists and politicians who were asking too many questions.

- Why did that specific strain of Anthrax come from a government controlled lab within the US?

Go back to sleep America.
The terrorists are coming to get you.




The first wave of Anthrax letters that targeted news media and journalists were mailed 6 days after 9/11. Hardly enough time to start asking too many questions.


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLeanin
Student of theIron Game
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2,231
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Shroomism]
    #7544050 - 10/21/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

rofl TWO JUMBO JETS HIT THE TOWERS.

I WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME EXPLOSIONS....JUST MAYBE? ROFLS


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Leanin]
    #7544190 - 10/21/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Leanin said:
rofl TWO JUMBO JETS HIT THE TOWERS.

I WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME EXPLOSIONS....JUST MAYBE? ROFLS






--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | Next >

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* 9-11, conspiracy?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
sparks8 8,767 65 01/21/09 10:37 PM
by Geomancer
* 9/11 Conspiracy Poll
( 1 2 all )
WScott 2,107 24 11/04/07 11:40 AM
by WScott
* 9/11 Conspiracy
( 1 2 all )
AliceDee 4,024 22 01/21/09 10:41 PM
by Cannabischarlie
* To all the 9/11 conspiracy theorists:
( 1 2 3 all )
Gumby 5,280 45 03/03/07 11:59 PM
by KristiMidocean
* I've seen quite a few 9-11 conspiracies but this one takes the cake. Stymee 1,568 10 01/21/09 10:34 PM
by truekimbo2
* the only one way to settle the 9/11 Consipiracy debate is to re-build the towers and crash 2 planes
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
ZippoZM 15,816 185 04/01/08 01:05 AM
by moosehead
* that one 9/11 video
( 1 2 all )
PurpleKush 4,276 25 01/21/09 10:34 PM
by truekimbo2
* September 11 Wiki Theorys
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
makaveli8x8 9,050 157 09/11/07 07:32 PM
by RandalFlagg

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
26,321 topic views. 4 members, 61 guests and 84 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.039 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 15 queries.