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OfflineWScott
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7567740 - 10/27/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

When you consider all the sweatshops (slave labor, lets call it what it is) in the world producing goods almost solely for European and North American consumption, it makes you wonder not what the government is capable of, but what the government and her people (myself included unfortunately) are not capable of.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7567781 - 10/27/07 07:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Its my belief and I will not be convinced otherwise.




I think that sums up nicely the attitude of the Troofer crowd.

Don't bother us with facts. We have already made up our minds.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7567791 - 10/27/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What he means is: It's my belief and I will not be convinced otherwise, based on the current evidence.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7567794 - 10/27/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Its my belief and I will not be convinced otherwise.




I think that sums up nicely the attitude of the Troofer crowd.

Don't bother us with facts. We have already made up our minds.




I think he is saying that based on the apparent corruption and greed of the leaders of this country. If they are willing to discard the lives of others for material gain, what makes a 9/11 conspiracy so impossible?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: antiPock]
    #7567908 - 10/27/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm no conspiracy junkie, but just why did building 7 collapse? That is the tricky question to me.

Yeah, so the evil gumint was somehow smart enough to wire up *THREE* buildings with explosives but somehow miscounted on how many planes to send.

Uh huh! :yesnod:

And while I'm at it:

First, picture the demolitions teams wiring up the World Trade Center towers with explosives prior to the attack. Obviously you couldn't do it during business hours, since it'd be kind of hard to explain to the 100,000 people who worked at or visited the WTC towers on any given day why you had a huge chunk of wall torn out and were wiring up a bomb on the steel beams there.

I mean, keep in mind, I don't know how big of a job that would be (no one has ever demolished a building that size before) but a building just half the size of one WTC tower took 4,000 separate charges to bring down. Four thousand.

That job took seven months of prep work... and they had the run of an abandoned building, without having to hide their work from 100,000 people every day. Our demolition crew, on the other hand, can work only at night and has to spend the last bit of every shift carefully repairing the wall and hiding any evidence of charges or detonators as not to be discovered during the day.

Huge teams of demolitions experts, who had no problem wiring a building full of innocent New Yorkers to explode, hired in secret, worked every night for what had to be a year (and that's only if they had a big enough crew) placing maybe 10,000 separate charges in each tower and another few thousand in WTC 7 (the smaller WTC tower that also collapsed, later in the day on 9/11).


pointlesswasteoftime.com


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: WScott]
    #7568165 - 10/27/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If they are willing to discard the lives of others for material gain, what makes a 9/11 conspiracy so impossible?




Oh, I don't know. Nothing except for the fact there is ZERO evidence for it.  :shrug:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7568515 - 10/28/07 01:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ok. I have to admit I thought conspiracy theories were stupid too until I saw this Zeitgeist. I am still not convinced or anything, but I am kinda going WTF? There are some VERY real questions that don't seem to have answers. (If you are silly and still believe in that "God" guy, you should skip the first part of this movie or your world might fall apart before your eyes.) But the rest of the movie is about conspiracies, and some of it is DEFINITELY true.


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Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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Offlinepostanaldrip
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7572859 - 10/29/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What facts? Every time people start asking important questions that desperately need factual answers we get the run around.

How many times did I watch that little weasel Scott McClellan pass up opportunities to present the facts to this Nation? If our government wasn't hiding information, than they wouldn't be avoiding all these crucial questions. questions that could absolve them of any wrong doing. However, they feel so threatened and backed into a corner by all the suspicion that they have no choice but to lie to us all.

The only facts that they want us to know are the ones that make it look like their intentions are pure.

Truth is, we are pretty much in the dark when it comes to the facts. We will never know the whole story.

All I can do is gather as much information as I can and view it with an unbiased collectivity. which I have done.

I watched the top of those towers fall and hit no resistance on the way down. I saw the explosions shoot out the sides of the buildings. I saw the interviews with the NY Fire fighters that said when they went into the buildings initially there was massive damage on the ground level. They said huge slabs of marble were blown off the walls in the lobby and that peoples skin was burned off. They also said they heard explosions just prior to the buildings collapsing and the whole time they were free falling. I saw the tower that got hit second go down first. Wheres the logic in that. I saw our president react in a manner that suggested he was expecting this to happen.

Ive heard the "facts", and Ive deciphered that most of them are not facts. They are nothing more than feeble attempts to explain away the conspiracy theories.

Ill believe a New York firefighter any day before ill believe someone like Scott McClellan.

What facts do you have that may convince me otherwise? chances are, youve got nothing.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


Edited by postanaldrip (10/29/07 01:04 PM)


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Offlinepostanaldrip
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7572910 - 10/29/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are the thousands of dead soldiers that were sent into Iraq prematurally, without a plan for victory, not evidence that our government doesnt care about, not only the soldiers lives, but the lives of their family members as well?


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7572975 - 10/29/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What facts do you have that may convince me otherwise? chances are, youve got nothing.




Many of your questions have already been covered and debunked in this thread. I see a few in your post I have personally already answered here. It becomes rather tiresome to tread the same ground over and over for each person who drops into this thread without doing their homework first.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinepostanaldrip
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7574514 - 10/29/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't ask a single question that didn't have a rhetorical answer, other than the question I asked you and I'm not going to read through all ten pages of this thread to find them. Ive been doing my "homework" since the days after this shit popped off 6 years ago. Like I suspected, you have absolutely nothing compelling to change my mind. Just a hollow reply that implies you didn't even come close to capturing the essence of what Ive said. You haven't even commented on the most important points Ive tried to make.


Just like all the other pawns who run on blind faith, it seems you believe, as long as it supports what you want to believe, what others say, just because they say it is a fact.
Even though it may be impossible to verify as a fact. Thats where judgment and logicality should be implied in order to discern whether or not its truly a fact or just made up crap that the government thinks we need to hear in order to keep order. You are defending tyrants who are quite genius and manipulative. Its all good though, keep believing that our government is run by a bunch of saints.

So you say you've presented facts that debunk all the conspiracy theories. Just ask yourself if they are really facts or just here-say presented as "facts". Can they be verified? Did you discover these "facts" or did they come from somebody else and you believed it?


Like I said, I find there to be a serious lack of credible facts coming from each side of this debate, thats why I'm stressing that it is important to use logic, common sense and sound judgment to come to a conclusion. So, until you have credible facts that can be verified and proven don't waste your time on me.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7574638 - 10/29/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Like I suspected, you have absolutely nothing compelling to change my mind.




Considering that you have stated your mind is already made up, I don't think anyone is going to waste much time answering you when your questions have already been addressed ad nauseam. :shrug:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblekake
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: zorbman]
    #7575233 - 10/30/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Who owns http://www.debunking911.com/

Oh that's right... some faceless coward who won't reveal his identity.


Hmm...

Sorry Phred, but your site has zero credibility.

Keep eating the grass though, your wool will make me a nice hat some day.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: kake]
    #7575655 - 10/30/07 08:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You guys are hilarious.

What does it matter if you know the guy's name or not? The information he presents is either factual or it isn't, whether his name is David Jefferson or Mickey Mouse.

And of course, there is nothing on his site that can't be found on dozens of others -- the stuff he presents is all public domain, and available to anyone willing to spend the same amount of time searching the web that he has. I listed his site (and the other one -- which I note you fail to comment on even though it covers lots of the same stuff) more or less at random. I could have listed literally dozens (hell... maybe even hundreds by now) of others which debunk the Troofer koolaid in just as great detail.




Phred


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Phred]
    #7575699 - 10/30/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

OK well i looked at your website when you listed it, lets add something new to this thread now, lets critically analyze the points from both sides together? Using that website you listed as a template. Basically lets go threw that website and see what can and can't be proved?

lets start with the free fall idea.

The tinfoil people say the building fell at freefall speeds and didn't seem to be slowed down by the structions of each floors..in a nutshell the floors must have been blown out for this to happen.

The sheep people say the tinfoil's are wrong and that it didn't fall at freefall speeds, based on a photo of debreeze that shows dust and crap falling faster than the building...which indicated the building fell slower than freefall(debreeze).

So I looked at both sides biasly, and obviously still side with the great tinfoil people because an idea popped into my head, would it not be possible that the explosives blew the debreeze out, causing them to fall at a faster speed???

in essence, the debreeze do have rockets pointed downward...until that explosive momentum wears out? at which point, even thow that momentum has stopped, the debreeze will be so much farther down that it looks like the building still didn't fall at freefall speeds.

So firstly, constructive opinions on my idea plz? Disagree if you will, but lets run with this idea alittle shall we? and cut down the the pointless bickering.

I have something else to add to this idea, a way to prove it one way or the other, but rather than point it out, i would like to see peoples responses, especially some of the high ranking sheep people.


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Invisiblekake
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7575791 - 10/30/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's a very good point. I've heard two things also... that free fall would've taken 9 seconds, and that free fall would've taken 11 seconds. Well it took about 14. Now if you anti-conspiracy theorists are relying on THAT as your counter-argument, honestly I think you're just supporting the "tinfoilers". I think you better come up with something better. That's still pretty fucking close to free fall speed, and with the amount of material, steel, etc. in that building, it'd be a physical impossibility I think for it to fall at precisely free fall, even with a controlled demo.

makaveli8x8 you make a very valid point. Explosions/energy are going to push material in all directions, including down and out.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: kake]
    #7575901 - 10/30/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

kake writes:

Quote:

Now if you anti-conspiracy theorists are relying on THAT as your counter-argument, honestly I think you're just supporting the "tinfoilers". I think you better come up with something better.




Sigh. There is no need to "come up with" something better. The claim of the Troofers that the collapse took place at "near free-fall" speed has been shown to be false.

Quote:

That's still pretty fucking close to free fall speed...




Actually, no it isn't. A difference of 60% (or more -- some estimates place the duration of collapse at closer to 18 seconds than to 14) is not "pretty fucking close" at all. A ten per cent difference is pretty fucking close. Maybe even a twenty per cent difference if you want to stretch things to the limit. But a 60% difference? Not hardly.



Phred


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: Phred]
    #7576042 - 10/30/07 10:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey i just spotted this on youtube and i don't think anyone has shown it before so new material here.



edit: here's a better doc on it

">


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (10/30/07 10:39 AM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7576060 - 10/30/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think if you're going to post a video, you should post a synopsis of what it says.

Nobody is going to watch all 400 videos posted in this thread, and I really dont take you seriously if all you can do to support your argument is post a video by someone else.

Do you have thoughts on it? Do you think its accurate?

I'll be happy to debate with a person until the cows come home, but I'm not going to watch videos all day.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Why can't all of the 9/11 conspiracies.... [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7576099 - 10/30/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)



can someone clear this up for me, at the end of this video they point to a building as say its still standing even thow they reported it had fallen already, is that really the building?

any proof when this report came out, and if it really did get aired ahead of time?


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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