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Offlinemightyjoepipe
stoner

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 154
Loc: ontario Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
pan subs?
    #753576 - 07/17/02 02:30 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

ok i found 14 small pan subbs in my yard!!! about all 2 inches high or not even/ does anyone think i can trip on that small amount? i didnt think so but just to make sure!!


--------------------
my name is joe!!


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 1,345
Loc: Estonia
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: pan subs? [Re: mightyjoepipe]
    #753600 - 07/17/02 02:43 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

If they are subbs...I have found them this small too...eat them fresh, all 14 and you should have a pretty good trip.


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Offlinemightyjoepipe
stoner

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 154
Loc: ontario Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #753739 - 07/17/02 03:37 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

ok just to triple check....i just re-looked at the pan subbs in my yard and...they look a lil different now...bigger and the cap is fading light brown with still a ring around the cap but not as dark now and the caps are becoming oposite to round shaped...like almost flat.,..< was that normal for a pan subb? this is my sorta first year hunting!! and with only 14 shrooms...what level do you expect ? 1 or 2 maybee?


--------------------
my name is joe!!


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 1,345
Loc: Estonia
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Re: pan subs? [Re: mightyjoepipe]
    #753782 - 07/17/02 03:53 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Umm yeah still sounds like subbs...sporeprint should be black...allthough I assume you have read the other threads around here regarding them...you also said they are bigger now...good. I ate 8 large ones fresh a few weeks ago and had a level 4 experience...unbelievable. Potency depends on many things...so if they are on the small side eat all 14 fresh and trip nicely...if they are dried you will need more.

Cheers


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Offlinemightyjoepipe
stoner

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 154
Loc: ontario Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #755068 - 07/18/02 02:53 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

aight, just makin sure i know what i might consume....it was verry cold overnight, i hope that the pans are still gonna grow....everyday more and more pop up only in one little corner in my huge yard..its weird....are you serious about a level 4 trip with only 8 medium shrooms>? wicked......uhm....to still make sure can you post a pic of pan subbs cause when the shrooms in my yard were small they looked exactly like on a couple pics..but now there bigger and look quite different...can you post a pic of a mature pan subb in sprorinating? ....and to take a sporeprint...does it matter what stage in developement the shroom is in to take a spore print..like does the shroom have to be fully mature and such?


--------------------
my name is joe!!


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 1,345
Loc: Estonia
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: pan subs? [Re: mightyjoepipe]
    #755419 - 07/18/02 07:39 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

It was 8 large...but if you eat all 14 they should do ya good. Unless of course they got mush bigger since when you last posted....umm here is a pic.



The larger banded ones are the subbs, the more white/grey ones are casters.

Cheers


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #755474 - 07/18/02 08:03 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

HI, St. Thomas, After looking over your many collections of images posted of these mushrooms, I am identifying them all as l Panaeolus subbalteatus with variations in the hygrophanous stage of the shrooms developement. That is they change color to a faded off-white in drying. Thus they all appear to be Panaeolus subbalteatus.


Panaeolus castanifolius is a lawn mushroom and is extremely rare and not usually identified because it is too similar to othersmushrooms gathered in a single collection.

I do not know who started all this Panaeolus castanifolius banter but I suspect that 99% of every alleged collection of P. casters are actually P. subbalteatus.

I think Mr. Mushroom just identified one such collection as P. subs.

Mj.

Additionally I saw a collection of alleged Panaeolus microsporus listed as Panaeolus microsporia, a species only known of from Central Africa and now listed as common in Florida, a state it is not known from whatsoever..

IT does not exist in the Southeast USA and all wild collections analysed by French Canandian Mycologist Gyorgy Miklos-Ola'h were shown to be inactive, yet two in vitro grown collections produced psilocybine in them only.

So I doubt the authenticity of the microsporus in America.

mj

I too have white capped panaeolus subbalteatus images pictured at my site.

mj

The name implies panaeolus (all Variagated) subbalteatus (somewhat belted) or (zonate)


Edited by mjshroomer (07/18/02 08:07 AM)


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 1,345
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Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #755522 - 07/18/02 08:28 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Even the really conic ones? Could be, I am only going on what my own senses, reading, Mitchnast's site and the shroomery have shown me. I also live in an area where not nearly as much research on mushrooms have been done as most other areas in N. America...interesting, some of them seem very different to subbs, maybe they are just variations.


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #756013 - 07/18/02 11:57 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

AS ffor mycological research in your region, Ola'h has conducted Panaeolus research since the early 1960s. He wrote le Genre Panaeolus, the difinitive book on the species in French. Now their is Gerhardts book on Panaeolus. Also very confusing.

There are more than 22 species of Panaeolus and only the P. subbalteatus is the steady mushrooms always found to contain the alkaloids psilocine and psilocybine.

Most of the others do not and Guzman, Gartz, and I and many others except Stamets and Gerhardt (who do not agree with us), We list Copelandia's as a separate species.



Edited by mjshroomer (07/18/02 11:59 AM)


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #756348 - 07/18/02 02:14 PM (19 years, 17 days ago)

What about the mushrooms on Mitchnast's site...I thought you were the one who helped him ID some of the active non subb panns? I have searched low and high and tried to find out what other panns are in the area active and non...and yes I know about and have found copius amounts of campanulatus group...sphinctrinus et al. But there are other mushrooms, which are panns, and man I swear they are not subbs...but they blue at the base, give a black sporeprint etc. They are also active.

Unless he is completely confused....here is the site that Mitch built

http://www.geocities.com/psilocyanide/musho.html

I have found all of these plus one more variation (the twisty conical ones which can be found in my last thread).

Confusion



--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 1,345
Loc: Estonia
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #756825 - 07/18/02 06:14 PM (19 years, 17 days ago)

I would also like to add that I do not agree with all of Mitchnast's ids on his site...it may be older info that he forgot to change or not...just don't know, but I do know that there are some marked differences between some of these active panns, and I do not think that they are all just subbs unless of course they are just variations or different strains like in cubensis..but then again Koh samui doesn't grow alongside Gulf coast in the wild...we shall see.

Cheers


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Anonymous

Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #757039 - 07/18/02 07:30 PM (19 years, 17 days ago)

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Anonymous

Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #757047 - 07/18/02 07:31 PM (19 years, 17 days ago)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: pan subs? [Re: ]
    #758114 - 07/19/02 05:56 AM (19 years, 17 days ago)


ps. Since my paper with Guzman, he has now added about ten to fifteen more species which he is currently writing or are in press on new species of PSilocybes. I even found a new one last fall here in Seattle.

mjHi Mr. Mushroom, tried to post this a while ago and it disappeared from the screen.

Guzman's Genus Psilocyeb is:



http://www.fungifun.org/tgp/

and A Worldwide Distribution of the known species and Chemical Analysis of those species by Gyuzm?n, Allen and Gartz is;

http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/pubblicazioni/Annale14/art09-Guzman%20&%20C.pdf

not sure if Gerhardts German book can be found onthe web.

Guzman and I and Gartz and many others fddo not agree on the Copelandia mushrooms as being Panaeolus.

Also I do not agree with Guzm?n placing what I consider to be non psychoactive species in my monograph with him. He did it becasue of bad chemical analysis reports by others.

So I would exclude the four panaeolina mushrooms, the two Fibula mushrooms, Panaeolus antillarum and Panaeolus sphinctriunus as non psychoactive (which ibncludes Panaeolina foenisecii.

AS for Gerhardt, I think German is all you will get.

Somewhere in my files is a paper the Panaeoloide of Australia by Tony Young. Maybe latr I can scann it but it is over sized to my scanner.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (07/19/02 09:38 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #758431 - 07/19/02 08:39 AM (19 years, 17 days ago)

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OfflineMitchnast
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Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 8,644
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Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #758481 - 07/19/02 08:52 AM (19 years, 17 days ago)

that collection of "microsporia" you mentioned are probably from my site where i mis-spelled a collection of mushrooms that you in fact identified as "microsporus or possibly oliveaceus" over a year ago, sorry for the mis-spell
but ino longer have access to correct the site.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: pan subs? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #758615 - 07/19/02 09:41 AM (19 years, 17 days ago)

Hi Mr. Mushroom, here is that URL for The Genus Psilocybe. I also corrected the link inthe above post where I accidenbtly linked a URL twice.

Remember that there is also an update tot hat monograph but I do not know if it is online.

mj

http://www.fungifun.org/tgp/


Will check later if you remind me to look in my files.

mj


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OfflineStInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
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Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #758959 - 07/19/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 17 days ago)

That is what I thought...Mj did ID them a while ago as microsporus...so where does that leave us then?


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: pan subs? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #759006 - 07/19/02 12:49 PM (19 years, 16 days ago)

I originally id'ed them as possbibly being

"identified as "microsporus or possibly oliveaceus"

And that was before Ola'h told me microsporus wwas so far only identified from Central Africa and again I bring up the fact that no wild speciems were found to contain psilocine and/or psilocybine and that only psilocybine in a lab in Quebec turned up in a few collections of in vitro grown specimens.

mj

The ones Mitchnast had could have been some mixtures of P. subbs and possibly Olivaceus only now bothg Stijve in Switzerland and Gartz in Germany both recently failed to find any psilocybine in collections of Olivaceus I sent them from Seattle and I still have some specimens somewhere of those olivaceus which I ate fourty of with no effects.

mj


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Anonymous

Re: pan subs? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #759481 - 07/19/02 04:38 PM (19 years, 16 days ago)

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