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Offlineepilobium
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Unusual UK active! Please help to identify....
    #7534746 - 10/19/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

OK,
In my normal lib patch I stumbled across some unusual actives. I've never seen them before so any help IDing them would be great.

Location: Upland, nutrient poor, acidic grassland. Typical 'lib' territory. Growing close to clumps of juncus.

Size: cap 2-4cm, stem 4-7

Cap: convex, flattening with age and becoming 'wavy' like typical cyans. Nipple present. color off-white/buff/tan (darker in the center), staining strongly blue. Pellicule easily peels off.

Stalk: fibrous, dose not snap clean, medium, white staining a very strong blue. Ring(or veil remnant), present but not distinct. Stained chocolate-brown possibly from spore deposit.

Gills: detached. Pink/brown (typically mushroomy). Spore print to follow.

Smell: hint of aniseed?

Anyone got any ideas? Photos are below.

Pleas help!!!









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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7534857 - 10/19/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are you sure they are active, or could they be one of those blue Stropharia's?

They just look kind of uniformly blue in the pictures, but I would expect them to get much bluer where they have been bumped or broken.


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7534863 - 10/19/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

those are not active unfortunately. They are stropharia aeruginosa. I've already been through the same thing as you. They start out a brilliant slimey blue color and as they mature the sun dries them and turn a pallid yellow color. The stems stay blue though. They are inactive as far as anyone on here is concerned. I fried a couple up and ate them. Tasted pretty good.


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: akb112211]
    #7534867 - 10/19/07 10:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wow those are pretty convincing...


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: akb112211]
    #7534872 - 10/19/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

one more note...also, you will notice they are blue exactly where something(debris) has covered them. The discoloring could have something to to with oxidation or bleaching by the sun.


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: akb112211]
    #7535042 - 10/19/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, those DEFINITELY NOT Stropharia aeruginosa.
They are Ps. Cyanescens for SURE! When Cyans get dry they turn yellow as visible above...

I hope you didn't throw them away for they ARE actives!


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7535054 - 10/19/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

El zorro is VERY right. The bluing on those spcimens is more of a psilocybian bruising. Those look dead on like Psilocybe Cyanescens. Theyve been popping up in England recently. one of the most powerful species you can find ive been told.


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7535077 - 10/19/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

they dont look like any stroph iv seen
look like cyans but thats just me. get better pics. gills and stipe look like cyan to me


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: notapillow]
    #7535088 - 10/19/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if you can get a spore print youll be safe.


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7535124 - 10/19/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ahm, no, Cyans actually aren't the most powerful species you can find. They truly ARE powerful, but Ps. Azurescens is the most powerful mushroom out there. Ps. Subaeruginosa and Copelandia Cyanescens are more more powerful as well... Nevertheless, Cyans are potent as hell :stoned:


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7535142 - 10/19/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

well he did say, one of the most potent.
still cyans are my favs. never gotten to try azuies


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: notapillow]
    #7535166 - 10/19/07 12:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

notapillow said:
well he did say, one of the most potent.
still cyans are my favs. never gotten to try azuies




Yup, sorry! Didn't read that :smile:
You're right! ONE of the most potent :wink:


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Offlineelflord420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7535208 - 10/19/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thoes look alot like P. Cyanescence

take a spore print


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: elflord420]
    #7535625 - 10/19/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Good stuff good stuff. Keep it up ladies and gentlemen!

I believe the world is becoming more habitable for psilocybian mushrooms. very slowly, year by year but yes...


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7535672 - 10/19/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i think there are more people hunting them in every corner of the world and thence finding more :grin:


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: canid]
    #7535690 - 10/19/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

quite possible too! data technology today makes us able to share our finds much more easily.


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7535724 - 10/19/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They don't look like S. aeruginosa to me either. 

They look very different from the Ps. cyanescens in California as well.
They are definitely active Psilocybe, and likely Ps. cyanescnes, though they are definitely a very different strain from the Wavy Caps in California.

Nice find.  :smile:


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OfflineGbBaker
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: CureCat]
    #7535803 - 10/19/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wow I found the Exact same ones in a field by my house noticed they were blue but did not pick them because I was told only Libs grow in newfoundland. I think UK and newfoundland get much the same climate so maybe it is of the same genus. Be cool to find out what this was.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: GbBaker]
    #7536359 - 10/19/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i was not aware of cyans on the east coast. if you find some, please post some pics. i would love to see that!


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7536508 - 10/19/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

certainly not the typical cyans one sees around the shroomery, but p. cyanescens non the less...
they were found in a field? no wood about?

great find!


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Offlinejet li
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7536560 - 10/19/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I'm leaning more toward Stropharia aeruginosa, but a spore print would be a deciding factor. I just don't quite like the look of those, although they are pretty harmless (Stropharia aeruginosa) they're still not recommended for eating.


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Offlineepilobium
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: jet li]
    #7538548 - 10/20/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for all the excellent replies guys. I also have some more info on the find:
1) The habitat contained no bark chippings etc Its an open filed, no woodland nearby either. However, the could be growing on grass/juncus thatch?
2) Spore prints just in! See photos below. The color = purplely/chocolaty brown.
I was leaning towards Stropharia aeruginosa BUT there is no frilly cap margin and the gills don't have a lighter/white margin either.The youngest species was quite blue however.
Also, AKB was right in that there is bluing where debris has obscured the cap. This is evident in the picture where a blade of grass has created a line of bluing.
Personally, I don't think its either species as the cap seems to be too light/blue for be cyanescens.

Two further things that confuse me:
1) The gills. They are free. Is this the case in cyanescens or aeruginosa? (I keep reading conflicting reports).
2) The smell. They have a distinct smell, slightly aniseedish (?)

So what the hell is it?!???

Any more ideas/thoughts guys? :smile:





Edited by epilobium (10/20/07 08:42 AM)


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7538622 - 10/20/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think they are cyans at all.
The poster did not indicate whether they were blue when picked or began white and bruised after handling. they appear to have a uniform blueness throughout the stem. Wrong color gills as well.
If you notice in the first picture, the mushrooms lose their blue color as they gain age. Ending with a almost completely pale brown upturned wavy cap. Here are some pics of mine exhibiting the same characteristics. They are a bit scalier. But also have a removable pellicle.


Also, the poster mentioned finding these in grass. I didn't think cyans grew in grass. They could be on rotten wood beneath the grass, but because cyans are reported to have been brought into the UK on woodchips, this should be ruled out. Unless there are woodchips in the middle of a field.(not likely)
Look at this pic from mushroomexpert.com

Even though they were found in the UK, they could resemble "Stropharia pseudocyanea (= Stropharia albocyanea), of the Pacific Northwest, is similar in appearance but is typically paler, and grows in grass. Its gills and spore print are brownish, rather than purplish brown."(mushroomexpert.com)
This entry in rogersmushrooms.com should confirm. It also mentions a habitat that resembles that of the mushrooms in question.(the third photo.)
http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/gallery/DisplayBlock~bid~6787.asp
Either way, he/she has not been back to refute or confirm any of the claims we are making. Could just be a one-time poster.

I guess arguing my point does not make me a popular poster. Sorry, it just seems obvious even though the pics are not that great. tell me what you think of the links.


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7538627 - 10/20/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oh, you must have posted while I was writing mine up...cool


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: akb112211]
    #7538768 - 10/20/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Since this is a forum that's based on free speech, everyone can tell what ever they think (as long as it isn't completely fucked up). And when you think it's another type of mushrooms than I do (or some others) this shouldn't make you unpopular (at least it doesn't for me).

Anyway, I'm ABSOLUTELY convinced that these are Ps. Cyanescens and believe me, when I say, that I've seen enough Cyans to know what I'm talking about.

When Cyans get old and a little dry (often comes with cold and dry weather), they start tunring blue all over (especially the stem) and sometimes even the caps. The mushrooms on the right side of the first picture look a little different to the ones on the left, though they appear to be still Cyans, since their appearance varies quiet much from young to old. I've seen tons of Cyans looking like that, that where as blue as them (or even WAY more blue).
Spore print colour also leads me to believe that these are Cyans.

Stropharia aeruginosa and all the other blue Stropharia species have a much thicker stem and become more white when they get old, almost loosing their magnificent coloration.

As you can see in these pics, the stems can turn very blue without even being touched and the coloration gets brighter, more yellow like, when they get old and dry:

Blue stem:




And older and dry ones...



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Offlinejet li
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7539036 - 10/20/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

epilobium said:
Thanks for all the excellent replies guys. I also have some more info on the find:
1) The habitat contained no bark chippings etc Its an open filed, no woodland nearby either. However, the could be growing on grass/juncus thatch?
2) Spore prints just in! See photos below. The color = purplely/chocolaty brown.
I was leaning towards Stropharia aeruginosa BUT there is no frilly cap margin and the gills don't have a lighter/white margin either.The youngest species was quite blue however.
Also, AKB was right in that there is bluing where debris has obscured the cap. This is evident in the picture where a blade of grass has created a line of bluing.
Personally, I don't think its either species as the cap seems to be too light/blue for be cyanescens.

Two further things that confuse me:
1) The gills. They are free. Is this the case in cyanescens or aeruginosa? (I keep reading conflicting reports).
2) The smell. They have a distinct smell, slightly aniseedish (?)

So what the hell is it?!???

Any more ideas/thoughts guys? :smile:








The spore print looks Brown to me, but it might just be the picture.  I'm still sure they are Stropharia aeruginosa.


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Offlineelflord420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: jet li]
    #7539321 - 10/20/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

it looks alot like cyan... but the spore print of cyans are alot more purple

i dunno could be your camera...

but it looks more brown then purple which is a bad sign that its not cyan


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: elflord420]
    #7539434 - 10/20/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, most of the prints I take from Cyans look dark brown (most of them don't look purple at all).
Older and wet specimens given almost orange looking prints...


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7539515 - 10/20/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Those don't look like stropharia aeruginosa to me. The ones I find have a shaggier stem. I really think those are cyanescens.


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Offlineelflord420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: landsnorkler]
    #7539527 - 10/20/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dunno fhakface... when me and my friend were pickin a extremely ungodly big patch of cyans our hands became covered in deep purple spores... and you can see as the cyans grow.. smaller mushrooms under bigger ones get drenched in deep purple spores on their caps... plus the spore prints that ive taken from cyans are deep purple!

something strange about thoes pics of mushrooms make me think differently i duno.. they look alot like cyans with blueing but something about the cap structure just kinda throws me off of thinking they are cyans plus the brown spore-print

but on the other hand they look alot like actives and the more i look at the spore print i think they are cyans...

its up to you if you wanna consume them or not!!


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Edited by elflord420 (10/20/07 02:41 PM)


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: elflord420]
    #7540610 - 10/20/07 07:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

its up to you if you wanna consume them or not!!




In the end it's always up to the poster to consume them and I'd always say: "Don't eat them!" if there is more than one opinion about it.
Anyway, St. aeruginosa ain't poison (after removing the cap skin (and that's gonna be hard with Cyans)).
I'd say: Eat them and see what's gonna happen! You won't get sick or anything. The only thinkg that might happen is, that you#re not gonna trip (very unlikely :wink: )


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7540690 - 10/20/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i like to see more, pictures, if you can and more specimens


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: cactu]
    #7540740 - 10/20/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

most likely a rare strain of p cyanescens, maybe a new species in the woodlover complex


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Offlinecasgoodie
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: casgoodie]
    #7540746 - 10/20/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

have they been under freezing conditions?


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: casgoodie]
    #7540753 - 10/20/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

woodlovers are so coplex :grin:


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: notapillow]
    #7541424 - 10/21/07 02:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I still firmly believe them to be cyans too. after a further look at the pictures die by side, i believe the way they bruise, the thickness of the stems, and the purple/brown spore print would indicate Psilocybe Cyanescens.


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7541545 - 10/21/07 03:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That print looks really brown, way too brown. I equalised the colour, it looks a little better:



Although they don't look like typical cyans and they're growing in a field, i'd say they're just cyans that are cold. Where i pick woodlovers the temps get regularly to and below freezing and the woodlovers grow smaller, the caps don't open up fully and there's often a lot of blueing already evident.

That said, they still look strange, the blueing still doesn't look right and the colours are off.


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: undergrounder]
    #7541597 - 10/21/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks again guys... I wish I had discovered this place a few years ago :smile:

They were picked after a few days of frosts so they had undergone cooling. I think, among other things,  they are not 'meaty' enough for  St. aeruginosa. However, they could be a rarer variety of either Psilocybe or strophs. Now that they are drying they are really bluing-up and the gills are completly detached from the stem.

Think I might try one and see what happens. Maybe half of one to be safe? What do you guys think?


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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7541599 - 10/21/07 04:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Also, they still have that slight aniseed smell which is very confusing :S


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7541636 - 10/21/07 05:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Half of one specimen wouldn't do it, I guess. Just eat a gram and see what happens. Three of my mushroom books say that St. aeruginosa is more or less safe to eat (as I said before: after removing the cap skin and that is impossible with Cyans).

I'm definitely no one who suggests eating mushrooms he's not 10000% sure of what they are, so IF you get sick after eating those, the claim is upon me! It might be a fucked up situation to eat mushrooms you're not convinced of what they are but keep sayin' to yourself that St. Aeruginosa isn't poisonous. The only thing that could happen is that you get diarrhea for a few hours but it's more likely that you trip a little :wink:

Have fun!


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Invisiblekaal-kopje
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7541713 - 10/21/07 07:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

here are a few pics of some older sun dried stropharia's from a few years back











some more recent (in grass)





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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: kaal-kopje]
    #7541912 - 10/21/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Mh... very interesting!
They surely look like the ones epilobium posted.
I don't like to do it, but I have to reconsider my ID :crazy:
I've NEVER ever seen St. aeruginosa that slim and also that colored when dried.
The one in in the middle (of the original posted ones) looks more like a Cyan to me, than the other ones, though I've seen plenty of Cyans looking exactly like the smaller ones.

So hereby I revise my ID on them and say: I surrender! They are St. aeruginosa! NICE ID you guys :wink:


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7542079 - 10/21/07 10:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Case closed, that was fun! We should do this more often. :grin:

Besides, if it were true that cyans were being found in a field, this would change a lot of facts and conceptions that we already know.
I just had a feeling it was too good to be true. This whole series of posts just proves the how interesting and variable the world of fungi can be!
Epilobium, thanks for bringing these to our attention and starting this thread. When you do spore print photos, try to do them in bright natural light. Its difficult to identify colors in such warm, dim lighting.
Thanks to all for contributions.


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Nor is there now,
The wholly criticized
Or the wholly approved"


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Offlinejet li
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: Fahkface]
    #7542135 - 10/21/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I applaud your willingness to fight your case until proven absolutely wrong. You didn't have much choice but to back down, after the recent post of pictures, though. ehehehe.

Later guys.

This only supports the frequently posted maxim - Dried mushrooms are almost impossible to ID.


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Offlineepilobium
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: jet li]
    #7542248 - 10/21/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Cheers guys, quality responses! The shrooms in the first pic were very fresh and still a little sticky.

Top quality work, i too am now convinced they're strophs. although, I may try a couple (with skins removed) just in case :wink:

I think I'm also going to invest in a microscope so I can start checking spore size/ornamentation... should help a lot with ID's!

Sorry about the 'warm light', I've learnt my lesson for my next posts. We'll back to the libs then, at least theres 000's of those around :smile:

Cheers guys


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: epilobium]
    #7542540 - 10/21/07 12:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

woah
those new pics and adjusted lighting on the spore print throw it 180 degrees.

stropharia it be... for now. Muah hahaaha!


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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Unusual UK active! Please help to identify.... [Re: CureCat]
    #7562227 - 10/26/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

they look like mine, maybe the spores wafted across the ocean! :cool:


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