Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
psilocybin loacation
    #7533041 - 10/18/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Does anyone know the location in individuals cells where psilocyin is made and stored? Fungi cell walls seems to be composed of various glucans and chitin.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLayYouIn
Taurus
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
    #7537473 - 10/19/07 10:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i always thought it was all over in the mycelium and mushrooms except the spores.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemulege
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 7
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7560465 - 10/25/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think you misunderstood his question... He means what individual part of the cell, i.e. mitochondria, cell walls, etc.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLayYouIn
Taurus
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: mulege]
    #7560992 - 10/25/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mulege said:
I think you misunderstood his question... He means what individual part of the cell, i.e. mitochondria, cell walls, etc.




:confused:

sorry, i cheated my way through biology.  :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePooter
Shroom Mongler
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 146
Loc: With waldo.
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: LayYouIn]
    #7561921 - 10/26/07 06:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would assume in the Golgi complex and in the vacuoles. They are made jointly in the ribosomes and modified in the Rough E.R. Just like every other amide/protein.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNalim
OTD Kelly Girl
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 15,033
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Pooter]
    #7566219 - 10/27/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pooter said:
I would assume in the Golgi complex and in the vacuoles. They are made jointly in the ribosomes and modified in the Rough E.R. Just like every other amide/protein.



:nonono:
Go elsewhere with your disinformation.
This is just bullshit in its purest form. Seriously, I have seldom heard anything quite this horribly incorrect. There isn't an grain of truth or knowledge behind this.
Many proteins are synthesized in the cytoplasm others are made in the Mitochondria. Amides are made in pretty much every part of the cell. Proteins are mainly synthesized in the ER neither psilocin nor psilocybin are proteins though. Rather: they are biosynthesized by enzymes(which are proteins).

I haven't been able to find any clear explanations where the biosynth of these alkaloids happen but the best bet would be the cytoplasm as they are not intended for excretion.


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
    #7569569 - 10/28/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
Proteins are mainly synthesized in the ER



When I took biochemistry and cell biology at university, we were clearly taught that protein synthesis (with the exception of mitochondrial proteins) starts in the cytoplasm where ribosomes translate mRNA into peptides. But of course, the complete synthesis of a particular protein (eg. with sugar moieties or the like) usually entails subsequent modification in the ER and other organelles.

As to the intracellular location of psilocybin, I'd assume that cytoplasmic enzymes carry out the synthesis. The storage would likely be in secretory vesicles (if secreted), or possibly freely in the cytoplasm, depending on what the organism uses the alkaloids for. The presence of a cell wall does not hinder secretion: Many fungi and bacteria secrete antibiotics/toxins. If secreted (to the intercellular space), the alkaloids could perhaps have a signalling function like hormones or neurotransmitters do.

Quote:

Nalim said:
they are not intended for excretion.



How do you know?

Fungal cells don't intend anything, neither does the mycelium nor the mushroom. Fungi don't think, therefore they don't intend. Animals can intend. Psilocybes presumably can't. The same goes for nature and natural selection. I know that it's common for people to see intention everywhere in nature, but that's simply incorrect.

With the relative lack of research having been done in this field, I can't see any reason to assume that psilocin/-cybin is not secreted by individual fungal cells. The molecules certainly resemble other signalling molecules (serotonin) which human neurons secrete abundantly.

Some people like to think that the alkaloids are synthesized solely for sentient beings to cherish the mushrooms, thereby ensuring the survival of the genome (= intention). This, however, doesn't explain its function in prehistoric times before the emergence of sentience, so I don't buy it. Whatever their function, the alkaloids must give the organism a selective advantage. If not, those without alkaloid synthesis would quickly gain an advantage by being more energy efficient.

Btw rungi, why the interest in the location? Are you developing a new alkaloid extraction method?
:cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7577181 - 10/30/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No, but that is my interest, and it comes from a book
There is a book called Fungal Cell Wall by Jose Ruiz Herrera In it are some protocol for extracting component of cells and cell walls using glass beads,ultrasonic oscillators centrifuges,French presses, and various other techniques. There is no mention of alkaloids and or antibiotics (are they different?)being components in cell walls. My guess is that psilocyin is made and stored in a similar location that penicilin is. Maybe it has a similar biological function as well. I do not know how penicilin is extracted and purified from fungal cells.

The location of penicilin synthesis and storage? I think this has been studied in great detail because of the profits high yields produce.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
    #7577981 - 10/30/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Penicilin is made from the metabolites, not the fungi itself.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
    #7580628 - 10/31/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

In my biochemistry course we used ultrasound to disintegrate cell membranes, whereafter the substrate was centrifuged so we easily could extract certain wanted cell contents (in our case rat liver cell mitochondrial inner membrane proteins :tongue:). This process could be used for a wide range of things, but there must be better ways of extracting psilocybin. If psilocybin is in fact secreted, one would benefit immensely by in some way triggering the fungal cells to secrete, thereby being able to both collect the alkaloid and keep the fungal cells alive after delivery. Otherwise you'd have to break open the cells or extract otherwise (methanol?).


Quote:

rungi said:
There is no mention of alkaloids and or antibiotics
(are they different?)being components in cell walls.



An alkaloid is a molecule of a certain structure (an amine) and origin (mostly plants, but also fungi, dream fish, bamboo worms, ...) which often has some effect on humans/animals, whereas an antibiotic is a toxin secreted against competing organisms (eg. bacteria) with the "purpose" to kill or inhibit.

The main function of a cell wall is to prevent the cell within from bursting due to high pressure. That's why penicillin kills some bacteria - the cell wall components are prevented from assembling and therefore the cell bursts. But even though the cell wall keeps the cell from bursting, it's not completely impenetrable; substances that the cell secretes are able to pass through. Some bacteria even have a capsule on the outside of the cell wall which prevents antibiotics from reaching the wall and do damage.


Quote:

rungi said:
My guess is that psilocyin is made and stored in a similar location
that penicilin is. Maybe it has a similar biological function as well.



If "meant" for secretion (like antibiotics), psilocybin would most likely be found in secretory vesicles more or less continually flowing from the golgi apparatus towards the cell surface and either promptly expelled or aggregated right beneath the plasma membrane waiting for the cell to be triggered so that a large quantum can be discharged simultaneously (like human insulin).

Nobody(?) knows the function of psilocybin (or the other psilocybian alkaloids), so it could serve some function in the cell wall, however I seriously doubt it. I can't see what function a small molecule like psilocybin would serve there. Other fungi and bacteria (both with cell walls) live quite happily without psilocybin being present anywhere.

At first glance psilocybin sure looks like a neurotransmitter, but once you test a substance on a different (not too closely related) organism "anything" could happen. Some substances are harmless to rats, but deadly toxic to humans, and vice-versa. So it could have an antibiotic function on some competing organism in nature which psilocybian mycelia often encounter, but the molecule just resembles a neurotransmitter so much that I'd personally put my money on a kind of cell-to-cell communication.

:alert: Like molecules often have like functions, even in very distant cousins.


Quote:

rungi said:
I do not know how penicilin is extracted and purified from fungal cells.
The location of penicilin synthesis and storage? I think this has been studied in great detail because of the profits high yields produce.



The original extraction method can hardly be a secret (no original patents effective), but might be very heavy reading. But remember: Psilocybin is not penicillin, so don't assume too much. Rather, find some scientific articles on the subject. Try searching PubMed online and then get the articles from a research library. A quick search gave me this article title: "A novel extraction procedure for psilocybin and psilocin determination in mushroom samples". Maybe that's what you're looking for?

Extraction of psilocybin from mushroom culture is supposedly inefficient, which is the reason Sandoz makes it synthetically (Indocybin). But of course, "inefficient" may simply be in the eyes of a corporation which must focus on the bottom line. It may perhaps not be too silly if one wants to "play around" with it hobbywise. I've thought about it myself.


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Penicilin is made from the metabolites, not the fungi itself.



I assume you mean medically used penicillins? The substance secreted by the Penicillium molds does by itself inhibit bacterial cell wall synthesis (thereby killing the offender). But the stuff used in medicine today is a wide range of analogs, so in that sense "medical penicillins" are metabolites of the fungal secretion.

I don't think many doctors would dare inject a pure fungal extraction into a severely ill patient today - even though old remedies such as maggots are getting a rennaisance in medicine. :syringe: :syringe: :syringe: :shocked:


Edited by Hyoscyamus (10/31/07 01:00 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7580672 - 10/31/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

extracting psilocybin is not that hard.

just grind up mushrooms, and place the powder in methanol over steady heat no more than 65c and constant stirring in a reflux apparatus simple condenser.

Once completed filter the liquid thru filter paper (or under suction thru a filter core).

evaporate most of the methanol off over low heat (65c) and then allow to cool, first in a refrigerator, then in a freezer. This will allow the crystals of psilocybin to form. filter them out while still cold and re-warm/cool the leftover methanol to allow for a second recrystallization


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Slimz]
    #7580877 - 10/31/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Methanol, yes. But in what range of purity would you guess the resulting extract would be? Many other substances would be extracted along with psilocin and psilocybin in this manner.

Of course, none of them would be more toxic than the mushrooms themselves, but for the true nerd high purity of the sought chemical is vital. :mushroom2:

Is methanol easy to acquire in the US? It isn't here, you need a "poison permit". :thumbdown:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: psilocybin location [Re: rungi]
    #7581033 - 10/31/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Let's keep to the subject at hand please, and not let it degenerate into another extraction thread. Thanks.
RR


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMyconut
Stranger

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 26
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7585377 - 11/01/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hyoscyamus said:
Quote:

Nalim said:
Proteins are mainly synthesized in the ER



When I took biochemistry and cell biology at university, we were clearly taught that protein synthesis (with the exception of mitochondrial proteins) starts in the cytoplasm where ribosomes translate mRNA into peptides. But of course, the complete synthesis of a particular protein (eg. with sugar moieties or the like) usually entails subsequent modification in the ER and other organelles.

As to the intracellular location of psilocybin, I'd assume that cytoplasmic enzymes carry out the synthesis. The storage would likely be in secretory vesicles (if secreted), or possibly freely in the cytoplasm, depending on what the organism uses the alkaloids for. The presence of a cell wall does not hinder secretion: Many fungi and bacteria secrete antibiotics/toxins. If secreted (to the intercellular space), the alkaloids could perhaps have a signalling function like hormones or neurotransmitters do.

Quote:

Nalim said:
they are not intended for excretion.



How do you know?

Fungal cells don't intend anything, neither does the mycelium nor the mushroom. Fungi don't think, therefore they don't intend. Animals can intend. Psilocybes presumably can't. The same goes for nature and natural selection. I know that it's common for people to see intention everywhere in nature, but that's simply incorrect.

With the relative lack of research having been done in this field, I can't see any reason to assume that psilocin/-cybin is not secreted by individual fungal cells. The molecules certainly resemble other signalling molecules (serotonin) which human neurons secrete abundantly.

Some people like to think that the alkaloids are synthesized solely for sentient beings to cherish the mushrooms, thereby ensuring the survival of the genome (= intention). This, however, doesn't explain its function in prehistoric times before the emergence of sentience, so I don't buy it. Whatever their function, the alkaloids must give the organism a selective advantage. If not, those without alkaloid synthesis would quickly gain an advantage by being more energy efficient.

Btw rungi, why the interest in the location? Are you developing a new alkaloid extraction method?
:cool:




This is all way over my head, just doing some reading in the wrong section i guess :wink:  I had the thought Maybe the production of alkaloids from the mushrooms somehow attract species of insects which eat on, and even reproduce on mushrooms. At some point maybe this insect is then attracted to manure in whatever form.  This would help would help the spread of the mushrooms and ensure their overall survival.  Anyway it might be possible that insects could be attracted to certain types of mushies because both benefit each other ( i know ive had loads of maggots living inside my wild mushies before ) and the key to this attraction being the production of said alkaloids?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Myconut]
    #7638527 - 11/15/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Many things are possible and your example of spreading of the mushrooms by insects is indeed common in nature. But remember that insect species aren't the same across the world, and that not all psilocybian mushrooms are associated with manure. There are also very large environmental differences between Thailand, Germany, and Oregon.

The alkaloids, however, are the same (although differing in content) in the mushrooms found in these diverse locations, so their function must be associated with something found in every single geographical location where you find psilocybian mushrooms, for else the process of natural selection will "weed out" those strains producing unneeded alkaloids since this won't be energy efficient.

Now, what function could these alkaloids possibly have in such diverse locations? My own bet is one inside the mushrooms themselves, but it could of course also be something external, perhaps symbiotic with other organisms as you point out yourself. Parasitic organisms often have quite crazy life cycles, and perhaps psilocybin and the other alkaloids are a part in some strange interaction between the mushrooms and other organisms in their environment.

The maggots that you may find in wild Psilocybes don't necessarily get something that they can't get anywhere else, but they may have a preference for them over other mushrooms.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 37 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7642184 - 11/15/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)



I took the above picture in a microscopy class that I attended last week. One of my classmates brought a "Psilocybe cyanofriscosa" specimen; this is a tiny gill fragment which has been thoroughly crushed under the cover slip to release the cystidia. The crushing caused the tissue to blue quite a bit. There is no dye, all the bluing is caused by psilocin degradation. I noticed that some areas were much bluer than other areas and thought of this thread as I took a picture. It was very obvious that the psilocin is not equally distributed in the mushroom tissue - it looks like the cells had organelles which were so dark blue that they were almost opaque.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleslackophage
Misanthropist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7642265 - 11/15/07 10:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:

...There is no dye, all the bluing is caused by psilocin degradation...




That is an awesome pic, Alan.

*Heads for POTM thread*


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7643024 - 11/16/07 05:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting. However, the thorough crushing dispersing and oxidizing the psilocin makes things difficult to identify. Wherever psilocin is stored it will be free from contact with oxygen, so there might be an aggregation of (non-blue) vesicles in the cytoplasm, most probably requiring a dye of some kind to be added.

Would it be possible to get a picture of lesser crushed "au naturel" non-gill tissue, dyed for contrast? Or has someone perhaps got some hi-res TEM pics?

Btw, has "cyanofriscosa" gotten a proper name yet?
:confused:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7643479 - 11/16/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The reason you see blue in that one spot is because that's the only part that is in focus. Microscopes have a narrow depth of field range, and as you can see, the only spores visible are also in that same area with the bluing. There's also hundreds, if not thousands of individual cells in that picture which I estimate at around 100X to 200X.
RR

Who has any proof that blue is caused by psilocin? What about non-active mushrooms that also bruise when damaged?


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 37 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7646493 - 11/17/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> The reason you see blue in that one spot is because that's the only part that is in focus. Microscopes have a narrow depth of field range, and as you can see, the only spores visible are also in that same area with the bluing.

The fresh gill fragment was very small in the first place and was crushed between the cover slip and slide by putting a LOT of force on a pencil eraser. We are looking at a very thin layer here, it wasn't focusing in on different cells at different depths. It looked similar to the naked eye - you could clearly see blue spots.

> There's also hundreds, if not thousands of individual cells in that picture which I estimate at around 100X to 200X.

It is at 400X and there are closer to dozens of cells in view. You can see parts of some cystidia near the center.

> Who has any proof that blue is caused by psilocin?

All dark spored mushrooms which bruise blue contain psilocin, making me think that the psilocin and bluing are very closely related.

> What about non-active mushrooms that also bruise when damaged?

They all have light colored spores.

> Btw, has "cyanofriscosa" gotten a proper name yet?

No.

> That is an awesome pic, Alan.
> *Heads for POTM thread*

Thanks, I really wish I had taken a macro shot of the microscope slide with my camera - it was really beautiful.

> Would it be possible to get a picture of lesser crushed "au naturel" non-gill tissue, dyed for contrast?

I don't have any samples, this was at a weekend microscopy class with a whole bunch of people. A shroomery member showed up with one tiny very blue psilocybe.

> Or has someone perhaps got some hi-res TEM pics?

I hope to have some in a few months.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7646652 - 11/17/07 03:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> There's also hundreds, if not thousands of individual cells in that picture which I estimate at around 100X to 200X.

Yes, that's why a dye would have been nice - even at 1000X. Don't know which kind of dye though. Antibodies of course, but that would be going a bit far...

> > Who has any proof that blue is caused by psilocin?
> All dark spored mushrooms which bruise blue contain psilocin, making me think that the psilocin and bluing are very closely related.

If the mushroom was properly identified and the bluing first came upon crushing I'd cautiously assume that the bluing is caused by oxidized psilocin. But I wouldn't say that in strictly scientific circles, since there could be many substances in the mushroom that turn blue when it's handled. I've noticed quite a few of my local small non-psychoactive mushrooms stain blue/green/purple. Again, antibodies could give the answer.

> > Btw, has "cyanofriscosa" gotten a proper name yet?
> No.

OK, so cyanofriscosa is not = P. subaeruginascens?

> > Or has someone perhaps got some hi-res TEM pics?
> I hope to have some in a few months.

:cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7646746 - 11/17/07 05:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a couple of high res SEM of gill fragments.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineurayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 111
Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7647546 - 11/17/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Remarkable images Roger, thank you for posting!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinespock1
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: psilocybin loacation *DELETED* [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #7648140 - 11/17/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by spock1

Reason for deletion: .



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: spock1]
    #7653841 - 11/19/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

cows like tripping...

Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


Edited by Slimz (11/19/07 08:33 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefastfred
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Slimz]
    #7653911 - 11/19/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Slimz said:
cows like tripping...

Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.




They most certainly did. Man has both herded animals and used psychedelic mushrooms for at least several thousand years, both of which have contributed greatly to the prolifiration of mushrooms.


-FF


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSlimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: fastfred]
    #7653984 - 11/19/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i believe that this has gone off topic, however i think its an interesting discussion...


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHyoscyamus
Master Brewer
Male

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: spock1]
    #7654212 - 11/19/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Here's a couple of high res SEM of gill fragments.



Hehe.. SEMs are always great. Completely alien. Thanks RR!

However, it would be great to have a look inside the cells (TEMs) in order to see secretory vesicles or whatever else might give a clue to the whereabouts of psilocybin, as the original poster inquired about. I hope Alan gets hold of some.

Quote:

spock1 said:
Is that true? I thought a genetic trait will diminish only if it lowers the organism's competitive advantage.. an organism could have all kinds of adaptations that aren't useful, but as long as they don't waste too much energy or give it too much of a physical disadvantage.. they will remain.

Sort of "nonsurvival of the unfittest" rather than survival of the fittest.



Using energy synthesizing an unnecessary product leaves less energy for other metabolic tasks. This gives an advantage (in the long run) to strains not producing the product, as they statistically leave more offspring than strains spending energy on the product. In effect, the producers of unnecessary products get "weeded out" over the generations - unless they happen to come upon a suitable environment away from more fit strains.

Since psilocin is contained in so many different mushroom species around the world, the alkaloid must serve some important function which gives a competitive advantage over mutants that have lost the ability to synthesize psilocin.

One must keep in mind that "survival of the fittest" doesn't mean survival of only the single one most fit, but often of several genetic strains that are all at least "fit enough". So in theory organisms that "waste energy" producing unnecessary products could still live successfully alongside non-wasters, but they'd just not be as successful doing so.

So yes, you're right: As long as not too much energy is wasted, or not too much of a physical disadvantage is given, an organism could be "fit enough" and the genetic trait will not die out. At least not in the short run.

The "usefulness" of a given trait isn't necessarily clear, and there may be unknown interactions with other traits that result in the seemingly useless trait in fact increasing the survivability of the organism. Time will tell whether we solve such puzzles.

Quote:

Slimz said:
Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.



Yes. The effect of the alkaloids on humans has most definately increased the mushrooms' survivability.

But I doubt that psilocin is such a recent "invention" by mushrooms that the spreading by humans is the sole reason for the alkaloid's production.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
    #8127002 - 03/10/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

According to Shulgin
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htmto]http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htmto[/url] Psilocin compared to psilocybin is slow to extract because it is located inside the cells. it requires patience. I do not have access to the paper he is citing so I do not know how they determined the location of psilocin.


Edited by rungi (03/10/08 11:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
    #8127012 - 03/10/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Psilocybin as an evolutionary bi-product?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
absolute zero 45,802 189 04/25/07 06:30 PM
by figgusfiddus
* Psilocybin Extraction with A/B yielding crystals...
( 1 2 3 all )
retread 36,417 40 07/25/20 02:02 PM
by iconicdave
* Increasing alkaloid levels
( 1 2 3 4 all )
iudexk 11,419 62 01/28/23 09:26 AM
by Thomas Envisio
* Growing Psilocybian species legally by inhibiting psilocybin production. Baby_Hitler 2,827 15 10/10/05 07:46 PM
by ripper225
* Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification
( 1 2 3 4 ... 13 14 )
Asante 77,821 264 01/25/20 12:11 AM
by Nephedryn
* Write up of anhydrous methanol extraction of psilocybin SoopaX 5,134 8 02/20/05 09:23 AM
by tofey
* mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
JssMthrFcknChrst 53,710 109 07/29/12 02:14 PM
by RogerRabbit
* Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals
( 1 2 3 all )
ionic 28,209 48 07/30/04 11:47 AM
by Alkaloids

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
5,315 topic views. 1 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.