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Hyoscyamus
Master Brewer


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
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> There's also hundreds, if not thousands of individual cells in that picture which I estimate at around 100X to 200X.
Yes, that's why a dye would have been nice - even at 1000X. Don't know which kind of dye though. Antibodies of course, but that would be going a bit far...
> > Who has any proof that blue is caused by psilocin? > All dark spored mushrooms which bruise blue contain psilocin, making me think that the psilocin and bluing are very closely related.
If the mushroom was properly identified and the bluing first came upon crushing I'd cautiously assume that the bluing is caused by oxidized psilocin. But I wouldn't say that in strictly scientific circles, since there could be many substances in the mushroom that turn blue when it's handled. I've noticed quite a few of my local small non-psychoactive mushrooms stain blue/green/purple. Again, antibodies could give the answer.
> > Btw, has "cyanofriscosa" gotten a proper name yet? > No.
OK, so cyanofriscosa is not = P. subaeruginascens?
> > Or has someone perhaps got some hi-res TEM pics? > I hope to have some in a few months.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
#7646746 - 11/17/07 05:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's a couple of high res SEM of gill fragments. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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urayasan
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 111
Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7647546 - 11/17/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Remarkable images Roger, thank you for posting!
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spock1
Stranger


Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: psilocybin loacation *DELETED* [Re: Hyoscyamus]
#7648140 - 11/17/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: spock1]
#7653841 - 11/19/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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cows like tripping...
Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
Edited by Slimz (11/19/07 08:33 AM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Slimz]
#7653911 - 11/19/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Slimz said: cows like tripping...
Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.
They most certainly did. Man has both herded animals and used psychedelic mushrooms for at least several thousand years, both of which have contributed greatly to the prolifiration of mushrooms.
-FF
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: fastfred]
#7653984 - 11/19/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i believe that this has gone off topic, however i think its an interesting discussion...
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Hyoscyamus
Master Brewer


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Denmark
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: spock1]
#7654212 - 11/19/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Here's a couple of high res SEM of gill fragments.
Hehe.. SEMs are always great. Completely alien. Thanks RR!
However, it would be great to have a look inside the cells (TEMs) in order to see secretory vesicles or whatever else might give a clue to the whereabouts of psilocybin, as the original poster inquired about. I hope Alan gets hold of some.
Quote:
spock1 said: Is that true? I thought a genetic trait will diminish only if it lowers the organism's competitive advantage.. an organism could have all kinds of adaptations that aren't useful, but as long as they don't waste too much energy or give it too much of a physical disadvantage.. they will remain.
Sort of "nonsurvival of the unfittest" rather than survival of the fittest.
Using energy synthesizing an unnecessary product leaves less energy for other metabolic tasks. This gives an advantage (in the long run) to strains not producing the product, as they statistically leave more offspring than strains spending energy on the product. In effect, the producers of unnecessary products get "weeded out" over the generations - unless they happen to come upon a suitable environment away from more fit strains.
Since psilocin is contained in so many different mushroom species around the world, the alkaloid must serve some important function which gives a competitive advantage over mutants that have lost the ability to synthesize psilocin.
One must keep in mind that "survival of the fittest" doesn't mean survival of only the single one most fit, but often of several genetic strains that are all at least "fit enough". So in theory organisms that "waste energy" producing unnecessary products could still live successfully alongside non-wasters, but they'd just not be as successful doing so.
So yes, you're right: As long as not too much energy is wasted, or not too much of a physical disadvantage is given, an organism could be "fit enough" and the genetic trait will not die out. At least not in the short run.
The "usefulness" of a given trait isn't necessarily clear, and there may be unknown interactions with other traits that result in the seemingly useless trait in fact increasing the survivability of the organism. Time will tell whether we solve such puzzles.
Quote:
Slimz said: Actually MAN may have helped prolificate the psychedelic species.
Yes. The effect of the alkaloids on humans has most definately increased the mushrooms' survivability.
But I doubt that psilocin is such a recent "invention" by mushrooms that the spreading by humans is the sole reason for the alkaloid's production.
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rungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: Hyoscyamus]
#8127002 - 03/10/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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According to Shulgin http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htmto]http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htmto[/url] Psilocin compared to psilocybin is slow to extract because it is located inside the cells. it requires patience. I do not have access to the paper he is citing so I do not know how they determined the location of psilocin.
Edited by rungi (03/10/08 11:07 AM)
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rungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: psilocybin loacation [Re: rungi]
#8127012 - 03/10/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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