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jesusvsbuddha
Fellow Pioneerof the Mind

Registered: 06/20/07
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rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!!
#7530601 - 10/18/07 09:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it just me, or do these douchebags perfectly sum up America's foreign policy for the last four decades?
-------------------- "I'm glad mushrooms are illegal. You know what happened when I took them? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, 'My God...I love...EVERYthing!' Now if that isn't a hazard to this country..." -Bill Hicks
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7530606 - 10/18/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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When in the last four decades has the foreign policy been to recruit mercenaries to do the work of American soldiers?
I must have missed that in Korea, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Somalia, Gulf War I and everywhere else we had deployed troops...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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jesusvsbuddha
Fellow Pioneerof the Mind

Registered: 06/20/07
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Mercenaries acting like soldiers/soldiers acting like mercenaries. Who cares what you call these people? I'm talking about their actions. Call a piece of dog crap a rose, but it still smells like shit
-------------------- "I'm glad mushrooms are illegal. You know what happened when I took them? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, 'My God...I love...EVERYthing!' Now if that isn't a hazard to this country..." -Bill Hicks
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Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7530649 - 10/18/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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General Joseph Edward Schmitz is Blackwater's Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel. He is a member of Opus Dei and the Knights of Malta (also called the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. It would behoove people to look into these organizations, and ask why their members pop up all over in cheif positions in the western military industrial comlex.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: Clean]
#7530662 - 10/18/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Secret Society, OMG!
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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boomer q
Comrade General



Registered: 05/03/07
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its not the hiring of mercenaries that sums up america's foreign poilcy, thats new, but what continues is the lying and underhandedness with which our government perpetrate their wars, even in WWII they did secret naughty shit, like letting lucky luciano out of jail so they could make a deal with the sicilian mafia...at the end of the war they let him go, even though he had like 15 years left on his sentence... he went on to organize the international heroin trade
i dont know much about korea, but im sure everyone is aware of the kind of dirty secret tactics the US gov used throughout most of the cold war...like arming the KMT to try to resist mao's nationalist army, which ended up with the KMT using our weapons to terrorize innocent hill tribes poeple from burma and laos into producing opium for them...the same opium which caused the GI heroin epidemic, and the same heroin smuggled into the country by the good folks at Air America... this is just one example...read McCoy's "Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia" to learn more about the the gov underhandedly lied to the american public and helped cause the drug problem in the USA
mercenaries are a new tactic, but the way they lie to us hasent changed....isnt it true that there are more mercenaries there than soldiers? im pretty sure it is....our "people" arent engaged in a war in iraq, our companies and economy are at war with millenia old middle eastern values
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
Edited by boomer q (10/18/07 10:21 AM)
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: boomer q]
#7530743 - 10/18/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, there are not more mercenaries there than soldiers.
That is absolutely false.
And if you're talking about tactics, then why the fuck is Blackwater the title of the post.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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boomer q
Comrade General



Registered: 05/03/07
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where are you getting this information from? i sure would like to see a source
according to a CRS report for congress on "Private security contractors in Iraq: Background Legal Status and Other Issues" which was updated july 11th of this year, there are 182,000 private security contractors, from 60 different private security companies, currently employed under US government contracts, 127,000 of them being DOD contracts, only 21,000 of whom are americans
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3626620 heres another source on that information
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004376.html heres another
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/07/03/more-private-contractors-_n_54906.html and another
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
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boomer q
Comrade General



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: boomer q]
#7530820 - 10/18/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: boomer q]
#7530825 - 10/18/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Army estimates I've seen say there are almost 200,000 troops there now.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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boomer q
Comrade General



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care to post 1 or 2 of those sources? i think your full of shit
even if you right, and there are almost 200,000 troops there, were talking about a difference of less than 10%...180,000 private contractors who dont have to obey any laws in iraq, compared to 200,000 (very generous estimate) us troops who have rules to follow....if it isnt a problem, why do you think its in the news everyday?
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
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robbyberto
Water Boy


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And the guys I know in the service seem to think we will have a presence there for the next fifty years, much like Korea. We're not leaving anytime soon. Blackwater just lost their contract in Iraq but they operate in countries all over the world. The regular Army guys do not like them and the army does not consider them friendlies during combat.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Apparently they are immune from Iraqi/military laws. That alone is frightening. I just read an article based upon a rare interview with the man; apparently, he is a huge religious fuckhead. I read here the other day regarding an incident where these douches held American troops at gunpoint. I wished the Iraqi government would have started seizing their sovereignity and went through with the idea that they were going to order the removal of all private security forces from the country.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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boomer q
Comrade General



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: robbyberto]
#7530866 - 10/18/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
robbyberto said: The regular Army guys do not like them and the army does not consider them friendlies during combat.
thats pretty crazy, i wonder if they ever actually get into shootouts on account of that.... its so weird that the government is putting our troops in such a crappy situation, and everyday theyr the ones saying to support our troops...i wonder if we invaded iran (god forbid) what kinda numbers of contractors would have to be there...we dont have many troops left to send places, and iran has 3 times the population in 4 times the area of iraq, maybe the gov will just let an army entirely composed of mercenaries do the invasion
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: boomer q]
#7530920 - 10/18/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
boomer q said: where are you getting this information from? i sure would like to see a source
according to a CRS report for congress on "Private security contractors in Iraq: Background Legal Status and Other Issues" which was updated july 11th of this year, there are 182,000 private security contractors, from 60 different private security companies, currently employed under US government contracts, 127,000 of them being DOD contracts, only 21,000 of whom are americans
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3626620 heres another source on that information
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004376.html heres another
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/07/03/more-private-contractors-_n_54906.html and another
Doesn't every one of those, once you actually click on the link, say "Private Contractors"?
Not security contractors?
Aren't they building roads and shit?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: boomer q]
#7530930 - 10/18/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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sander
learning

Registered: 10/04/04
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Doesn't every one of those, once you actually click on the link, say "Private Contractors"?
Not security contractors?
Aren't they building roads and shit?
the 180,000 are contracted to "provide security, gather intelligence, build roads, forge a financial system, and transport" I cant find the percentages for the breakdown but that is compared to "163,100 U.S. military personnel, according to U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla." the point is that the we are using these private security contractors to safeguard our diplomats and VIPs because the army guards that would otherwise be used are ineffective against 'civilian' hostiles in an urban setting because american solders can only fire on a civilian if the civilian fires first, and they cannot discharge weapons if there are bystanders in the line of sight. I believe we are all on the same side of this issue in decrying the American use of non-military personnel to do army functions simply so we can sidestep accountability and still protect our diplomats and VIPs (and very important oil refineries). I think the original comment was (or should have been) that we love getting around international law by giving money and weapons to others and then asking them to break laws so that we dont have to.
edit: those quotes are from boomer q's abc link
Edited by sander (10/18/07 11:56 AM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7530996 - 10/18/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it sums it up pretty nicely. The attitude both Bush's America and Blackwater convey is, "We own this road, your country, and this world." Their convoys basically consist of road ragers with guns but legal. A dark fantasy for sociopaths. Unlike our troops, they are not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
They fly down the road in their black SUVs and black helicopters overhead and sometimes if someone drives too slow..BANG..Small wonder these people are despised by Iraqis. They have little regard for human life unless they are being paid to protect it.
Blackwater is symbolic of Imperial America, our feelings of ownership of the world, our lack of regard for local cultures and our desire to profit from war.
I remember reading how Rome in its last days used mercenaries extensively. (Back then Rome was fighting barbarians at the gate, today we call them "terrorists"). It may be a good indicator of the last days of an empire. Every empire has a life cycle. I think we were near the end anyway but Bush has dramatically accelerated the process with his blunders in Iraq.
We need to get out of the war business and roll back empire before it comes home to roost.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (10/18/07 12:16 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: lonestar2004]
#7531055 - 10/18/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:

Sign says
America is not at war
the Marine Corps is at war
America is at the mall.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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That reminds me! I need to go to the mall to check out the new Xbox PS3........
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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boomer q
Comrade General



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: zorbman]
#7531792 - 10/18/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
I remember reading how Rome in its last days used mercenaries extensively. (Back then Rome was fighting barbarians at the gate, today we call them "terrorists").
true, in fact as the boarders of their empire rolled back thorough eurpoe, they employed several "barbarian" tribes as their mercenaries to fight other, invading barbarians... later these were the tribes which sacked Rome repeatedly because they were never paid or compensated for their military service
i sure dont want any blackwater folks in my neighborhood
-------------------- I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7532591 - 10/18/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jesusvsbuddha said: Mercenaries acting like soldiers/soldiers acting like mercenaries. Who cares what you call these people? I'm talking about their actions. Call a piece of dog crap a rose, but it still smells like shit
roses really smell like boo-b00-poo
-------------------- Asshole
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jesusvsbuddha
Fellow Pioneerof the Mind

Registered: 06/20/07
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it's not just blackwater, even though that is the post title...it's the entire fucking mess. iraq isn't the exception of American foreign policy gone awry just because it's all over the news day in and day out. bombs will be dropped and foreign blood shed for the sake of the fat American dollar (i too am guilty as we ALL are until we stop fooling ourselves into believing we need these disgusting green wads to sustain life) no matter who's in office. this won't change just because somebody else creeps into the puppet suit. Hillary, Obama...they're all the same. Democrats are just as guilty (though blow job scandals sure do take our minds off the fact). why do people keep signing on to go fight these wars? if somebody could give me a good reason for patriotism in any of its asnine forms, i'd sure like to hear it.
-------------------- "I'm glad mushrooms are illegal. You know what happened when I took them? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, 'My God...I love...EVERYthing!' Now if that isn't a hazard to this country..." -Bill Hicks
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7534276 - 10/19/07 06:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Am I reading this stuff correctly?
We pay billions of dollars to Blackwater (et al) to operate in Iraq. Blackwater, using the billions in tax money, hire top-end highly trained soldiers out of the US Military by offering them huge salaries. Blackwater goes into Iraq treating it like the wild west, shooting for "sport" anything that moves. Innocent civilians in Iraq die due to Blackwater, causing a huge resentment towards the US, leading to renewed attacks on US soldiers. US soldiers not provided with appropriate armor, because the US can't afford it, because the US has been paying Blackwater billions of dollars to operate in Iraq. And to add salt to the wound, the US military has to increase the length of tours in Iraq to replace the soldiers that are migrating to Blackwater.
... am I missing something?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: Seuss]
#7534862 - 10/19/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah you left out this part...
General Joseph Edward Schmitz is Blackwater's Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel. He is a member of Opus Dei and the Knights of Malta, also called the Sovereign Military Order of Malta....
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


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Posts: 7,469
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: Seuss]
#7535126 - 10/19/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You have it right Seuss. Another way we are paying more then twice for the same job is this sort of thing happening, according to a radio repair man with the army. He said, they sent in a Blackwater employee, who knew nothing at all about radio repair, for him to train how to do his job. Once finished, they put him on patrol duty, and we now pay the Blackwater employee more then double to do his job.
Here's another example of Military industrial Complex abuse. When one of their $500,000 trucks blows a tire or needs a new air filter, they don't replace the parts. They blow the truck up for fun and order a new truck on our dime.
That's all small potatoes abuse. There is much more and it's all documented in here. Save this link to your favorites and watch this documentary when you have the time.
It's called Iraq For Sale the War Profiteer. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2032359233625413099&q
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Because I enjoy beating a dead horse...
From al CNN:
Quote:
The U.S. State Department is unable to account for most of $1.2 billion in funding that it gave to DynCorp International to train Iraqi police, a government report said Tuesday.
"The bottom line is that State can't account for where it went," said Glenn D. Furbish, who was involved in putting together the 20-page report for the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction (SIGIR).
... and it gets better ...
Quote:
The Bush administratin on Monday asked Congress for nearly $46 billion in additional war spending for 2008, calling on U.S. lawmakers to approve the money before adjourning for the holidays.
"Parts of this war are complicated, but one part is not -- and that is that America should do what it takes to support our troops and protect our people," Bush said in an appearance with members of veterans groups at the White House.
... hmm, another $46 billion.... drop in the bucket:
Quote:
Most of the $45.9 billion request is for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, bringing the expected cost of those conflicts to more than $192 billion for the budget year that began this month.
... $192,000,000,000 divided by 52 weeks = $3,692,307,692 per week. ... $3,692,307,692 divided by 300,000,000 US Citizens = $12.31 ... $12.31 per person times 52 weeks = $640 per year per person
That's right... each American citizen (not family, but individual) paid $640 over the last twelve months for war operations in the middle east. Actually, we didn't pay it... we borrowed it, so really we each owe $640 plus interest.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Visionary Tools



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: Seuss]
#7550301 - 10/23/07 08:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1562
Evidence of Tax Evasion by Blackwater
New documents suggest that Blackwater may have engaged in significant tax evasion, failing to withhold and pay millions of dollars in Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, and related taxes, and sought to conceal its conduct from Congress and law enforcement officials.
In a letter to Eric Prince, the Chairman of the Prince Group, which owns Blackwater, Chairman Waxman writes:
I have received documents which suggest that Blackwater may have engaged in significant tax evasion. According to an IRS ruling in March 2007, Blackwater violated federal tax laws by treating an armed guard as an “independent contractor.” The implication of this ruling is that Blackwater may have avoided paying millions of dollars in Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, and related taxes for which it is legally responsible.
Unlike DynCorp and Triple Canopy, the two other major private military contractors providing security services to the State Department in Iraq, Blackwater classifies its armed guards as independent contractors rather than as employees. Under federal tax laws, this classification has important ramifications. Businesses must pay Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment taxes for their employees. They must also withhold federal income taxes on their salaries. By classifying its armed guards and other personnel as independent contractors instead of employees, Blackwater has apparently evaded withholding and paying these taxes.
When you testified before our Committee on October 2, 2007, Congresswoman Norton asked you why Blackwater treats its security personnel as independent contractors, while your competitors treat their guards as employees. You responded that Blackwater treats its guards as contractors because you found “it is a model that works” and because your guards prefer the “flexibility” of an independent contractor relationship.
Since the hearing, I have learned that the IRS determined in March — six months prior to your testimony — that your classification of a security guard working in Afghanistan as an independent contractor was “without merit.” The IRS advised that “[y]ou are responsible for satisfying the employment tax reporting, filing, and payment obligations that result from this determination.” By its terms, the IRS ruling applied only to the individual security guard who protested his classification, but the IRS warned that its ruling “may be applicable to any other individuals engaged by the firm.” The logic of the ruling would appear to apply to your entire workforce in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There is also evidence that Blackwater has tried to conceal the IRS ruling and the evasion of taxes from Congress and law enforcement officials. The IRS determination was issued in response to an inquiry by an individual security guard who questioned his classification as an independent contractor. In June, Blackwater required this employee to sign a nondisclosure agreement before it agreed to pay the back pay and other compensation that he was owed. The terms of this agreement explicitly prohibited the guard from disclosing any information about Blackwater to “any politician” or “public official.” The agreement further provided: “THE UTMOST PROTECTION AND NONDISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION IS OF CRITICAL IMPORTANCE AND IS THE ESSENCE OF THIS AGREEMENT.”
--------------------
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



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the news gets worse and worse
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: afoaf]
#7551637 - 10/23/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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No; the news gets better and better.
The more the corruption and bullshit that has allowed to flourish due to lack of oversight and common sense in our politicians is exposed, the more those who stand for the ideals this country was founded upon are empowered to change the situation. The politicians and media have turned a blind eye to all of this shit for so long, and I think they are finally beginning to realize that it isn't special interests that are most beneficial to each, but rather catering to the interests of the American people themselves. Seems to be a trend that is presenting itself, anyways.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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jesusvsbuddha
Fellow Pioneerof the Mind

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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: fireworks_god]
#7552830 - 10/23/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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AMEN^
-------------------- "I'm glad mushrooms are illegal. You know what happened when I took them? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, 'My God...I love...EVERYthing!' Now if that isn't a hazard to this country..." -Bill Hicks
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.




Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: rah-rah-rah! go blackwater!!! [Re: jesusvsbuddha]
#7553100 - 10/23/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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