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Offlinej3ckyl
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Vegetarians, Tell me why?
    #7530285 - 10/18/07 07:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

First let me state I am not vegetarian, I eat and enjoy meat regularly.

I'm curious as to the reasons and methods, most vegetarians will range from stances like being against cruelty to animals to attempting to live a healthy life. I eat meat but that's not to say I don't have certain issues with the subject, I believe all meat should be free range, organic and locally sourced yet the vast majority isn't. After watching some disturbing footage on kentuckyfriedcruelty I will not eat KFC until their animal treatment is corrected to acceptable levels (I realise however that this may be never).

The thing is I always hear people saying meat is murder, I don't agree with that. Meat is nature, eating meat is ours. If we weren't meant to eat meat our bodies wouldn't be built to process it or we wouldn't be predators surely? Vegetarianism based on ethics isn't enough for me to abandon the entire meat eating thing.

A policy I see sense in is not wasting fertile ground for grazing animals on when it could be put to better use growing fruit and vegetables. I'd like to say that though I eat meat, I believe that the animal should have a decent quality of living before it reaches my plate. This would mean decent living conditions and humane slaughtering practices. I don't want to slate anyones believes I just want to see the reasons that differ from my own. One progresses through life by challenging ones own assumptions, taking into consideration the assumptions of others and making rational, informed decisions. Input appreciated.

As an added note, I disagree with animal testing for cosmetic purposes but fully support legitimate medical testing.


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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OfflineTurntableJunky
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530287 - 10/18/07 07:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I love eating meat but this girl I know who is vegetarian convinced me to watch a documentary on a slaughterhouse. I didnt eat meat for 2 weeks after that.


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Invisiblegreys
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: TurntableJunky]
    #7530303 - 10/18/07 07:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

read michael pollans "The omnivores dilemma". its about sustainable food and how the american govt has consistently driven the price of corn down and subsidized farming to remove foodcost from campaign issue, induce monoculture and made it economical to feed cows (which are made to process grass) on corn on huge finishing lots. its an interesing read

i just finished eating a cold meatloaf sandwhich btw


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:greys:


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530360 - 10/18/07 07:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How well connected is your concept of meat with a living breathing animal? Would you eat meat if you were forced to slaughter the animal yourself? Knock it out with the back of an axe, cut through it's throat with a knife, hear it choke to death on it's own blood, hang it up to bleed, cut it's skin off, remove it's internal organs, it's genitals, it's limbs, calve it up, and then add it's meat to your favorite recipe?

In my experience, this process puts most westerners off eating that particular piece of meat. The connection is lost, and we're fine with it as long as someone else does the dirty work. Personally, I don't think that's entirely ethical.

I'm not a vegetarian by the way, although I'd say I eat a lot less meat then most. The other reason I eat less meat is because of ecological factors. Growing grain to feed animals to feed humans is a lot less efficient then growing grain to feed humans.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #7530367 - 10/18/07 08:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

grain lacks the protein needed by the human body, legumes..with soybeans at something like 35% protein are good substitutes, but not a total replacement for meat.

I grew up on a farm where we slaughtered our own chickens, cattle, and sheep. Killing, cleaning and eating the animal is alright by me, and i have no problems doing so. I would think anybody that hunts or fishes probably feels the same.


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Offlineilikeguitar
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? *DELETED* [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530375 - 10/18/07 08:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by ilikeguitar

Reason for deletion: .



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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: ilikeguitar]
    #7530384 - 10/18/07 08:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

these animals that make up 99% of our meat sources consumed today have been domesticated for thousands of years by humans for one purpose.


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7530425 - 10/18/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't have a problem with killing, I just prefer not to. I agree that the easiest way to source necessary nutrients is through meat, but I think our culture eats far too much of it. We've become gluttonous.

What are your thoughts on people who eat meat, but have never/refuse to slaughter their own meat?


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7530432 - 10/18/07 08:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Some neat responses. I will admit my connection with meat is a little lop sided, I wouldn't personally slaughter an animal for food unless I had to in which case I wouldn't think twice about it. I say that because it's how our society and our economy work. I do fish though, would eat what I caught if I caught more :laugh:. I'd happily watch someone kill and prepare an animal for me to eat. I also find the notion of eating certain animals taboo and others wholly acceptable, Our senses on eating these things are skewed it seems. Cow=tasty, horse=taboo, Chicken=tasty, hamster=taboo, rabbit=tasty, rat=taboo, pig=tasty, people=taboo. But that is strictly limited to western culture apparently. So far the majority consensus appears to be based around the feelings of the animal. I eat meat yes, But I don't believe in animal cruelty or wasteful meat consumption (ie, killing a creature to only consume a small portion of it). I do believe that animals are entitled to a decent quality of life before being slaughter to benefit my quality of life and it shames me how animals are treated in many abbatoirs and meat suppliers. There is however a food chain and we appear to be at the top of it. How many vegetarian cave men do you think there were? That's not meant to be a dig in case anyone thinks that. This whole subject fascinates me. Conscience seems to be a major swaying factor.


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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Offlinemathewf
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530439 - 10/18/07 08:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I don't buy into any of the vegetarian anti-meat propaganda at all.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530445 - 10/18/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

read the book Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond

its a look into why societies left the hunter gatherer lifestyle to adopt food production in settlements, and why some cultures (eurasian/north african) developed these skills before anyone else. It also takes a look into why the europeans ended up being the explorers and conquerers in the world before other societies had a chance.

I think it will give you a good insight into why the world eats how and what it does today.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #7530454 - 10/18/07 08:45 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Akamatsu said:
I don't have a problem with killing, I just prefer not to.  I agree that the easiest way to source necessary nutrients is through meat, but I think our culture eats far too much of it.  We've become gluttonous.

What are your thoughts on people who eat meat, but have never/refuse to slaughter their own meat?




If you totally refuse to slaughter your own meat(in times of need) then i dont think those people should be breeding...

we are a result of peoples who did what it took to survive, if the survival mentality is all but lost in those people, there is no need for them to be in the gene pool :woot:


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530455 - 10/18/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

It seems that the majority of people i've met who are vegatarians or almost veges are on two stances. Either it's the way they kill the animal, or the simple fact that frying up some ground hamburger can be quite the disgusting site, if you really REALLY think about what's going on.
I'm damn near a chicken only kind of person, and that's strickly based on the fact that chicken is healthier, and just not as nasty when you're frying it up, at least to me. Those little bits of meat in chili's and shit... i love the taste, but i very much might not be eating beef (aside from a good steak, or any free food, cause come on) in my later years.
But the whole humane practice thing is good in principle, but it'll never happen, at least not in my lifetime. There's just too much demand, too many products, too many farms and not enough enforcers and people who really care to make any significant changes anytime too. Sucks, but that's how it is.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Hrethic]
    #7530468 - 10/18/07 08:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not a vegetarian but the best reason I can see for being one is so I wouldn't get revenge done to me.

"the boot of the human is crushing the snake's neck, but the snake's fangs are biting the heel of the boot"

or something like that


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7530478 - 10/18/07 08:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

j3ckyl,

Because you don't have to :wink:

It is normal and natural to eat meat, but in this day and time we are granted with the option of not having to inflict cruelty to survive.


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OfflineTurntableJunky
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530492 - 10/18/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

And if you are vegetarian because you dont like animals being killed. They will be killed anyway and someone else will be eating them


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530510 - 10/18/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

j3ckyl said:
How many vegetarian cave men do you think there were? That's not meant to be a dig in case anyone thinks that. This whole subject fascinates me. Conscience seems to be a major swaying factor.




That's pretty easy to answer, before eating meat was a necessity. We ate a lot less of it, but we required it to survive. These days we have the option, the power, to choose not to.

Personally I think killing and eating are a part of the natural cycle. As long as the animals are grown in decent conditions, and the death is painless, then it is my belief that the relationship is beneficial for both parties. Having said that, I believe at least witnessing the slaughtering process take place first hand is beneficial to us, it gives us a greater appreciation of animals/nature (or something along those lines).


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: TurntableJunky]
    #7530511 - 10/18/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Fast food seems to be the one commiting the worst animal cruelty attrocities and this would sway me severely away from it. I still eat meat however, for several reasons. I love the taste and I'm naturally swayed towards meat dishes. Given the option of a vegetarian dish and a meat dish i'll take the meat thanks. Something that always entertained me about vegetarianism was things like bacon flavoured quorn and steak flavoured soy protein, you don't want to kill animals but you're acknowledging that they are tasty :laugh:

I see that there are alternatives to cruelty, but like I said before I don't really see it that way. An animal that is killed in the wild and eaten by a predator is suffering the same fate than if I personally killed it, so where do we draw the line?

Akamatsu you are right, our methods of living have severed the connection between this:



and this:



something should be done to reinstate the association


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: TurntableJunky]
    #7530516 - 10/18/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TurntableJunky said:
And if you are vegetarian because you dont like animals being killed. They will be killed anyway and someone else will be eating them




That's herd logic mister, the majority is made up of the individual. Take aways the individual and you no longer have the majority.


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OfflineStizzle
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530524 - 10/18/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

From what i've seen, most vegetarians or vegans have legit reasons on the surface but deep down just want to be part of something and feel as if they are making a difference in the world.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530529 - 10/18/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

j3ckly,

hehe, you don't need to kill animals period. a meat based diet is actually worse for you compared to a vegetarian one.

as for bacon flavored tofu and shit, there's nothing wrong in admitting that cows and pigs tase awesome. I bet crystal meth is pretty fucking cool too, but I'm not picking up the pipe.


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Stizzle]
    #7530530 - 10/18/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I see your point, but I buy free range eggs and local farm raised meat because I believe that you have to be the change you want to see in the world. On my own it won't make a difference but it does to me, I know that I personally am not sponsoring unethical meat processing practices (to the best of my knowledge). This encourages others to act likewise.

oliveplume: True, true. I tip my hat to you.

Back in a minute: Frying a steak :smile:


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Stizzle]
    #7530533 - 10/18/07 09:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That is probably why a FEW become vegetarians. I don't think it's legit to say most. Nobody I know really views vegetarians as making a difference in the world so I believe it's a more personal thing.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530534 - 10/18/07 09:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

oliveplume said:
j3ckly,

hehe, you don't need to kill animals period. a meat based diet is actually worse for you compared to a vegetarian one.

as for bacon flavored tofu and shit, there's nothing wrong in admitting that cows and pigs tase awesome. I bet crystal meth is pretty fucking cool too, but I'm not picking up the pipe.




can i get a link to where it says that vegetarian diet is more healthy then a well balanced diet including meats


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7530547 - 10/18/07 09:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530549 - 10/18/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I grew up eating meat, I dig how it tastes, but after seeing my health decline by my late 20's, I decided to cut out red meat entirely and have gone months at a time over the past 4 years without it. Simply put, my body functions better. The way I feel, especially in the stomach area, my energy levels, etc. With the exception of fish, which I KNOW is meat, flesh really messes up my digestion process (if you can smell what I was cooking: ( But I only eat that after lifting days as a treat.

With all of that said, I had a piece of chicken a few weeks ago for the first time in almost a year, and just the other night I had a nice NY strip here at home, which was my first steak in 13 or so months. And it all tasted good. I've had a LOT of vegetarians, including my 6 year old daughter (veggie for 3+) years say that they're just sickened by the sight, smell, or whatever of meat, and I believe them. But it's never happened to me or my wife.

So our approach with flesh foods is the same as our approach to the rest of our diet, 80% or so is fresh and healthy to cleanse and nourish our bodies, and the rest is for good old fashioned fun. We certainly appreciate pizza and candy bars more now than we used to, but we also want them MUCH less. It's an interesting path.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530552 - 10/18/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530572 - 10/18/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm a vegetarian for a combination of the environmental reasons (as you mentioned, producing more food with the same amount of space and resources) and the fact that eating what was once a conscious animal just bothers me.

It's possible to live perfectly happily and healthily without destroying sentient life- my own preferences are not more important than the life of an animal.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530573 - 10/18/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

all it says is that it is better "than the traditional American diet"


"Is a vegan diet healthy? As with any diet, a vegan diet requires planning. However, when properly planned, a vegan diet can be considerably healthier than the traditional American diet."

what about a well balanced diet including meats..not the typical glutinous American diet

check out this link explaining what it does to child growth
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2005/02/22/vegan_diet_harms_children.php


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530585 - 10/18/07 09:30 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

whattheheck: I'm curious as to what it is about red meat that caused you such discomfort, it's obviously some physical property of it. How about processed meat, same problem? I'm 20 and I'm eating a steak right now, smells great, looks great, tastes awesome but I can see why someone would be disgusted by it. My diet is out of whack, I'm not fat, not even close, but I don't eat much and what I do eat is mainly meat.

edit:spelling


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


Edited by j3ckyl (10/18/07 09:38 AM)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530594 - 10/18/07 09:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

also check this out....its meat eaters vs. vegetarian health

http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=288483

turns out vegetarians with a well balanced diet that include cheese, egg, and other dairy products seem to be very healthy...as well as people who have a well balanced diet including meat

vegans and extreme meat eaters seem to have the worst health..


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #7530597 - 10/18/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Akamatsu said:
How well connected is your concept of meat with a living breathing animal? Would you eat meat if you were forced to slaughter the animal yourself? Knock it out with the back of an axe, cut through it's throat with a knife, hear it choke to death on it's own blood, hang it up to bleed, cut it's skin off, remove it's internal organs, it's genitals, it's limbs, calve it up, and then add it's meat to your favorite recipe?





Why yes I would and I have too; Mmm, it is often delicious.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530599 - 10/18/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

BIGSWANG,

I am not going to disagree with you, it could very well turnout that a vegan diet is ultimately unhealthy. From what I have read and upon having knowing someone who gave birth while on a vegan diet, I think it is healthy.

Even if it was unhealthy, I would still do it for the ecological, ethical, and economical reasons as well.

-Cheers


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530607 - 10/18/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i heard if you supplement you body with lots of vitamins, mainly b12 and something containing trace minerals you should stay relatively healthy as a vegan

also...if you dont have enough protein in your diet, your belly will pooch out like those Ethiopian kids


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7530622 - 10/18/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I ain't a vegetable fan at all, I like some but I ease my guilty lack of eating veg with plenty of whole fruit smoothies. It does seem that a vegan lifestyle with supplements is perfectly workable, I'm curious to find what kinds of damage both a completely carnivorous diet causes and a totally vegan one would. anyone?


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Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530644 - 10/18/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

all meat = high cholesterol - higher risk for things like prostate cancer, heart attacks, and strokes

all vegan = iron, b12, and calcium deficiency dependent on the vegans diet, protein can be an issue as well all this can cause anemia, weakness, and brittle and weak underdeveloped bones, also if this has started since child birth there are studies that suggest slow brain development....even mental retardation if the proper nutrients arent given to the baby while in the womb. all this can be handled with strict vitamin intake, taken every day in place of the 4 ounces of lean meat recommended for a healthy diet


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530647 - 10/18/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Off the top of my head, I've read that meat a based diet is hard on the stomach and usually cuts about 5-10 years off your life.

Vegan diets when not done properly usually result in being sickly from lack of nutrients, proteins, vitamins, etc, etc...

*haha, the vegetables don't get any better once you become vegan, they still suck. :grin:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530696 - 10/18/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I eat a lot of meat. Frankly, I think it tastes good and since I work out rigorously 5 days a week my body craves the protein.

The high protein, low fat content of meat allows me a very low body fat percentage, which can add years to my life.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7530717 - 10/18/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i've been vegan for 6/7 years and vegetarian for almost 12.
i stopped eating read meat in 8th or 9th grade for some weird reason. so i'd research and look up recipes and through out high school i eliminated all meat from my diet and eventually became vegan. and i can consider myself a 'freegan' now. which means i'm vegan but if its free[dumpstered, going to be wasted etc] i'll eat it too. i wont eat free meat because it'll prolly make me sick.
i've been asked the why question so many times. and for me its a combination of global/environmental, health and diet, political and animal cruelty, why i'm vegan.
someone said something about fast food, but as well as an environmental issue. millions of acres of rainforests are cut down just for live stock feed. creating flash floods and other consequences. it has effects on the peoples society in these places too.

i have never had and health problems because i know how to eat as a vegan, i know alot about nutrition for all diets. there are substitutes for basically anything that is in a meat diet... veganase, meatless rib, turkeys, sandwich meat, milk, eggs etc. some is a little more expensive than others , [but that because of mass production and preservatives added to 'regular foods'] but i can eat health on my budget of being broke. but i love love love cheese, cant help it. that and lots of candy.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: badchad]
    #7530723 - 10/18/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think I could possibly live a vegan lifestyle temporarily, it would really just be a challenge to myself just to see if I can (like when I quit drinking for 2 years). I am massively wary of how meat is treated and poorly treated meat (pre and post processing) can cause a veritable plethora of problems. Think its possible to live on smoothies and vitamin supplements or would I encounter difficulties?

For a healthy lifestyle though we all need to breathe deeper, drink more water and avoid aspartame and sodium benzoate like the plague. apparently.

I often find that it's cheaper to be unhealthy. Fast food is incredibly cheap and I think that's a major contributing factor. I avoid fast food as best I can but living a rigorously healthy lifestyle is expensive and time consuming, in a world of quick fixes and convenience, health is rarely the primary motivating factor in consumption for your average person it seems. I don't have the time or the money to be healthy, which is sad really. I do however become frustrated at parents who feed their kids nothing but beans, chips and sausages every night and I've known a few.


--------------------


"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


Edited by j3ckyl (10/18/07 10:27 AM)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530742 - 10/18/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dont think you would have to live on bowls of viatamins or mega shakes. there are so many different type of really good vegan foods..... ahhh. i love to eat and cook. i'm saving up to buy a few tofurkeys.. best thing in the world. and seitan, and soy egg nog and veganase and nutritional yeast. stir fry with amino acids,... oh shit i'm getting really hungry from this. :subwayjared:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530755 - 10/18/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

dont have time right now to read through this whole thread, but thought i'd share my own personal experience.

was raised mostly vegetarian - neither of my parents eat meat - and although i ate meat fairly regularly from age 10ish-16, i went veg again at age 16. i'm not against eating meat per se, and have eaten meat on a few occasions since age 16 (i'm 22 now) - mostly fish that i've caught myself while camping, or fish that was freshly caught by the cook (when staying on an island off the coast of kenya where there is literally nothing else to eat). my main reason for being vegetarian today is my disgust with large-scale meat-farming operations, both in terms of environmental sustainability & animal rights (as well as the health of the consumer). as well, since i was raised vegetarian, i really don't have a taste for meat...

far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Krishna]
    #7530790 - 10/18/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...




Too true, a point I've been hammering home. We all need to make more effort to eat locally sourced food.


--------------------


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Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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Invisiblestarseed
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530895 - 10/18/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i was a vegetarian for seven years. this train was derailed about six months ago.

i initially became veg because i didn't think we should sustain our lives on animals. i figured, since mankind has the knowledge to be able to sustain itself on grains and produce alone, then all should embrace this.

i also was heaviily into metaphysical theory at the time, and i wanted to see the effects on increased intuitive notions arising from elimination of meat consumption.

for the record, there was a marked increase in said impressions.

seven years pass and i'm fine with no meat. been doing it so long the thought of eating flesh is sickening to me. all is well until i get the cravings.

i have never had any craving as strong as these. my mind calls out for chicken, beef and fish. it screams at me.. "EAT IT NOW, YOU SILLY BASTARD! WE NEED THAT SHIT TO LIVE! REMEMBER CHICKEN? THAT SHIT'S BOMB! YOU CAN'T FORSAKE THAT SHIT FOR LIFE!"

i kind of took it as, either i wasn't getting proper nutrition at the time or if i continued on my path i would eventually be unable to digest meat.

so i went back. it was hard at first, knowing i was putting a piece of chicken flesh in my mouth.. i kept thinking about what it was and nearly puking at the thought.

but soon i got over that (after the forgotten tastes regained their natural superiority), and have since been eating meat like crazy.

intuitive impressions still come at the same rate, leading me to believe that my intention to improve them was all it took. eliminating meat was merely my way of committing to that discipline.

all in all it was a positive experience. i learned a lot about the meat industry in my time off. the more i contemplated the abuses, the more i considered them to be merely a necessary by-product of trying to feed millions of people (and the ones in this country eating several times more then they need). dealing with that volume of production is bound to have some ill-effects on the animals.

i agree with some of the above posts regarding the slaughter of one's own food. i'm not certain that everyone could do it with a clear conscience at first.. but as you continued, you would see the necessity and come to terms with it.


--------------------
:poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530953 - 10/18/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've spent 4 years cleansing (lets NOT get into a discussion about what's "real" and what isn't please everyone) with periodic fasting and a slow and steady change in my overall diet.

The bottom line with red meat, is that when I eat it, I get plugged up. It takes a LOT more energy for my body, which is now very used to live, nutrient rich, and fibrous food, to process and move a chunk of dead cow along.

Of course, if I over eat a "treat" this can happen too. I pigged out on a medium sized bag of Doritos here a few weeks back while I was traveling, and I felt like I had a brick in my stomach for a few hours. So I think a lot of it is relational.

I'm now used to light and fibrous food being moved with a low level of effort through my body, and all that entails from the time it hits my mouth, until it hits the can. This wasn't true until a couple of years ago. Unless you've ever known how it feels to be light inside and out, you can't really miss it.

I also think this is partly why most S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) eaters don't feel "fulfilled" after eating a typical vegetarian meal, no matter how much they eat. They've been brainwashed, as we all were, usually in school, to believe that your stomach "growling" meant you were hungry, and being full was when you should stop eating. Usually eating nutrient dense food, you're just not going to get that "thud" in you like you would with most SAD foods. I rarely if ever feel "full" anymore. But I do feel good :cool:

Please note that I AM NOT ripping on anyone's diet. It is personal choice and even though I graduated with a 30 inch waist, by 21 it was up to 39. And the LAST thing I wanted was somebody disrespecting what I choose to put in my body. I grew up without much food, and to be able to eat brought me great comfort. So that's that.

Peace & Hair grease.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530959 - 10/18/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

j3ckyl said:
Quote:

Krishna said:
far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...




Too true, a point I've been hammering home. We all need to make more effort to eat locally sourced food.




Yup Yup!!!:thumbup:


--------------------
A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530960 - 10/18/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not against consuming animal products; I'm against the fucking food chain. We should live in a world where steak grows on trees. What was God thinking? :crankey:

As far as legitamite animal testing: Since kindergarden, we're taught that it's wrong to benefit at the expense of others, and yet animal testing is the ultimate exploitation of another being.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530969 - 10/18/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a heartache
Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a mistake
Tell me why
I never wanna hear you say
I want it that way


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7531152 - 10/18/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The way many animals are treated in kennels, slaughterhouses, pounds, and etc is extremely fucked up - vegans simply listen to their hearts not their stomachs. :thumbup:


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7531327 - 10/18/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I eat meat. I'm trying to cut down to organic/free range cuts, wild game/fish.

But I am becoming very turned off by the sustainability aspects of raising cattle and chickens. Not right, makes no sense.

What we do to our oceans is pretty fuckin sick too.

Serving sizes are fucked too, it should be about 3oz of meat (deck of cards) not a MCWhooperPounder


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Noetical]
    #7531458 - 10/18/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the recommended daily serving of lean meat is 4oz a day


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7531499 - 10/18/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I read on a vegan website that you can get your daily requirement of protein from just two slices of whole grain bread. John Robbins says in his book, Diet for a New America, that protein is a myth propagated by the meat and dairy industries: that the daily requirement is way too high; the body only needs small amounts of it. He also adds that even if you don't consume adequate amounts of protein, protein deficency is extremely rare and starving children in third-world countries don't even have it.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7531537 - 10/18/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thats laughable

you know those big stomachs all those starving kids have...yeah..thats from protein deficiency ...

i would read some other websites for your info....

muscles grow with protein..id like to see someone raise there kid with two slices of bread a day for their protein intake...

whole grains are about 10% protein....legumes about 25-35%....and even that isnt enough to support normal muscle development ...

go to school hippie and get your facts straight...


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7531548 - 10/18/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am a vegetarian for a couple different reasons. However a couple years ago I was a meat eater. Let me just say though, that I have no problem with meat eaters, and also would rather not be associated with the "preaching, praising, and criticizing that some vegans and vegetarians do. They give the rest of vegetarians a bad rap.

For one meat is very heavy for me to digest. It leaves me sluggish with a very full feeling. The main reason I became a vegetarian was for meditation and eastern religion purposes.They believe that when animals are killed, they experience fear. By ingesting the meat of the animal, you are also taking in that fear and other emotions it felt before it died. I also believe now in modern times, we dont need to depend on meat to live, as we did in the past. Since there are an array of foods available to all.

I have noticed an increase in energy within the body and an enhanced clarity within the mind.

I came across an interesting article by Milton R. Mills, M.D. that shows the comparisons of the anatomy between carnivores, herbavores, omnivores, and humans.

http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/health/comparative.html


Here is a chart on the bottom of the article for anyone who doesnt want to read it.

Facial Muscles
Carnivore Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore Well-developed
Omnivore Reduced
Human Well-developed

Jaw Type
Carnivore Angle not expanded
Herbivore Expanded angle
Omnivore Angle not expanded
Human Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location

Carnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Human Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
Carnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Omnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles

Carnivore Temporalis
Herbivore Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore Temporalis
Human Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size

Carnivore Large
Herbivore Small
Omnivore Large
Human Small

Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore Short and pointed
Herbivore Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore Short and pointed
Human Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore Long, sharp and curved
Human Short and blunted

Teeth (Molars)

Carnivore Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
Carnivore None; swallows food whole
Herbivore Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
Carnivore No digestive enzymes
Herbivore Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore No digestive enzymes
Human Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type
Carnivore Simple
Herbivore Simple or multiple chambers
Omnivore Simple
Human Simple

Stomach Acidity
Carnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity

Carnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine

Carnivore 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore 10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore 4 to 6 times body length
Human 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
Carnivore Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore Simple, short and smooth
Human Long, sacculated

Liver
Carnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Human Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney
Carnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Human Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
Carnivore Sharp claws
Herbivore Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore Sharp claws
Human Flattened nails


Edited by Truth_Within (10/18/07 02:49 PM)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Truth_Within]
    #7531579 - 10/18/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

we have been omnivores for over 400,000 years

chimpanzees, who are also omnivores, dont share any of the characteristics that you have explained above

pigs are another


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7531826 - 10/18/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The interesting thing about meat is that I believe that most protein is destroyed or becomes radically unstable at about 130 degrees. So that "30 grams" that you're supposedly getting in that chicken breast is maybe three or four (comparable to a few spoons of hemp seeds) after it gets torched.

Two of the best looking clean bodybuilders I ever knew ate all of their meat with a 15 second cook on each side with spices to preserve their vitamins and enzymatic activity. I thought they were nuts 10 years ago, now I agree with them. Especially considering where they're still at in their development.

I truly believe that one of the reasons that BB'ers and athletes have grown so much in the past decade or so is the ability to increase their protein intake from non-cooked sources, powders, bars etc. Even Dan Duchaine, "The Steriod Guru" thought that EFA's, which are very high in protein as a general rule, were the number one supplement going.

But we are ALL different. One of the biggest dudes I ever knew ate 12 bananas a day, and swore that if he went below 6, no matter what he did, he'd lose weight. So to argue as if we know what somebody else may or may not need is about as stupid as it gets.

peace......


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7534851 - 10/19/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Rather than posting what has been thoroughly discussed, I'll link to this thread on this topic.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6779751#6779751


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7534878 - 10/19/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
The interesting thing about meat is that I believe that most protein is destroyed or becomes radically unstable at about 130 degrees. So that "30 grams" that you're supposedly getting in that chicken breast is maybe three or four (comparable to a few spoons of hemp seeds) after it gets torched.

Two of the best looking clean bodybuilders I ever knew ate all of their meat with a 15 second cook on each side with spices to preserve their vitamins and enzymatic activity. I thought they were nuts 10 years ago, now I agree with them. Especially considering where they're still at in their development.

I truly believe that one of the reasons that BB'ers and athletes have grown so much in the past decade or so is the ability to increase their protein intake from non-cooked sources, powders, bars etc. Even Dan Duchaine, "The Steriod Guru" thought that EFA's, which are very high in protein as a general rule, were the number one supplement going.

But we are ALL different. One of the biggest dudes I ever knew ate 12 bananas a day, and swore that if he went below 6, no matter what he did, he'd lose weight. So to argue as if we know what somebody else may or may not need is about as stupid as it gets.

peace......




i agree. i only eat either poultry or seafood, mostly seafood. most of the time i eat my fish either raw or only seared slightly on both sides. any other time it is steamed. i cook my chicken very lightly.

for me, being a (mostly)vegetarian is all about health. yeah i also think about the cruelty animals go though in large farms and whatnot, which is why i buy free range organic meats. whenever i finally have a house out where i can raise my own animals i will. being vegetarian is just healthier. ive noticed a huge difference in my health since i started living this way about 3 years ago.

i eat fish about twice a week. poultry once every week or two. or less. depends.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534911 - 10/19/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
thats laughable

you know those big stomachs all those starving kids have...yeah..thats from protein deficiency ...

i would read some other websites for your info....

muscles grow with protein..id like to see someone raise there kid with two slices of bread a day for their protein intake...

whole grains are about 10% protein....legumes about 25-35%....and even that isnt enough to support normal muscle development ...

go to school hippie and get your facts straight...




that is laughable, however you have some facts wrong. the protruding stomachs you speak of, are not from protein deficiency, it is mostly from parasites. such as worms. also, you can get all of the protein you need from eating grains, legumes, fruit and vegetables. buddist monks are perfect examples. i hardly eat any meat, and when i do eat it, it is either fish or poultry, and it is out of taste not necessity. i experiemented for almost a year, ate NO meat at all, and i did not lose any of my muscle or strength. i work out daily and i have no problem mantaining and gaining strength. look up bill pearl. he is a vegetarian body builder who won many competitions. you dont NEED meat. it is a choice.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534927 - 10/19/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
i heard if you supplement you body with lots of vitamins, mainly b12 and something containing trace minerals you should stay relatively healthy as a vegan

also...if you dont have enough protein in your diet, your belly will pooch out like those Ethiopian kids




yes, vegans have to take several different supplements to stay healthy, i know a couple of them, one doesnt take any supplements and the others do, the one who does not is not as healthy in my opinion.

i personally refuse to be a vegan, consuming animal products do not harm the animal. and they are very beneficial. however i do respect anyones choice to eat and live however they want.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #7534932 - 10/19/07 11:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no..im right

"A swollen stomach is indicative of kwashiorkor, malnutrition caused by protein deficiency. It often affects children when they are no longer fed milk and their new diet is lacking in protein. The protein deficiency causes fluids to drain from the blood into the stomach, causing the characteristic swelling (edema) which may also be present in the arms, legs, hands, feet, and faces. A lingering disease, these children tend to be lethargic. Although kwashiorkor may not kill, permanent injury is not uncommon–such as mental retardation."- http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news/malnutrition/index.cfm


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534949 - 10/19/07 11:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hmmm. well i watched a program on the discovery channel that said many of those cases are also attributed to parasites. i never knew lack of protein could do that too. doesnt surprise me though, they dont eat much of anything.

vegetarians do not have to worry about that anyway. there is protein in every vegetable, fruit and legume you eat.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #7534959 - 10/19/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes...parasites also cause the poochy stomach


all im saying is if you eat lettuce all day..its not going to be enough protein to sustain or allow the growth of muscles....legumes have to be included in every meal, or a strict vitamin regiment needs to be followed


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534965 - 10/19/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Legumes do not have to be included in every meal.  This is out-dated thinking about protein.  As long as you consume a variety of plant-based proteins on a weekly basis, you will obtain the essential amino acids your body requires to produce protein.  Few vegans would follow an all-lettuce diet, and this would be indicative of an eating disorder, not a balanced vegan diet.  :rolleyes:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7534976 - 10/19/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

if you look further up in this thread..i already said that...a well balanced vegetarian diet is perfectly healthy

as is a well balanced diet including meats

strict vegans still must take vitamins for b12


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534978 - 10/19/07 11:29 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
yes...parasites also cause the poochy stomach


all im saying is if you eat lettuce all day..its not going to be enough protein to sustain or allow the growth of muscles....legumes have to be included in every meal, or a strict vitamin regiment needs to be followed




well yeah swang, i dont know any vegetarians who eat just lettuce lol. you have to eat a well balanced diet. thats part of what being a vegetarian is all about.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #7534989 - 10/19/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes..i pointed that out earlier in this thread...a well balanced vegetarian diet is just as healthy as a well balanced diet including meat


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535056 - 10/19/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, current research has shown that vegans can restore their beneficial intestinal bacteria & this bacteria will produce B12.  Supplementation is necessary for those whose intestinal flora has been depleted by a meat and dairy based diet.

A diet including meat is not healthy, as study after study has shown.  :shrug:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7535070 - 10/19/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

show me a study that says a diet including 4 ounces of lean meat a day is unhealthy.....


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535103 - 10/19/07 11:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Read my thread. I posted links to multiple studies.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7535111 - 10/19/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

and i can find plenty of studies that suggest that a well balanced diet is healthy

:shrug:

people have been eating meat for 400,000 years.....:shrug:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535127 - 10/19/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

not one of your links say that eating a well balanced diet including meat is unhealthy btw


most of which .. just say adding lots of grains, and fruits is good for your health...
duh.....
but where does it say a well balanced diet including 4oz of meat a day is unhealthy.......


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7535179 - 10/19/07 12:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Organic food exposed
Issue 16 of Cosmos, August 2007
by Elizabeth Finkel

It’s a booming trend, driven by public perception that food produced minus pesticides and fertilisers is healthier and better for the planet. We examine the science to see if the evidence stacks up.





Clicky to read more. ---------> http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1567


Edited by adrug (10/19/07 12:12 PM)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535240 - 10/19/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
not one of your links say that eating a well balanced diet including meat is unhealthy btw


most of which .. just say adding lots of grains, and fruits is good for your health...
duh.....
but where does it say a well balanced diet including 4oz of meat a day is unhealthy.......




You must have missed this one:Seventh Day Adventist Study

Vegetarians in this study had a lower risk of both cancer and heart disease. Since Adventists generally follow a healthy lifestyle, and those who included meat (even as seldom as twice a week) had an increased risk of these lifestyle diseases, this implicates meat as the causative factor.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7535285 - 10/19/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

and heres a link to a healthy well balanced diet

http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/healthybalanceddiet.htm

it includes meat...

i dont deny the findings of that study you showed me....but i am skeptical...they are claiming that on average the adventist live 5 years longer then the average american...thats fine...americans are generally unhealthy...but what about the japanese...who practice the eating of meat...and have an average life expectancy of 82 years...they also have lower prostate cancer and heart disease rates...


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535322 - 10/19/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's not a study, it's an article on a mainstream health website. Show me the studies upon which they have based their recommendations.

As for the Japanese, they are quickly losing their health "edge" as they adopt a Westernized diet. The traditional Japanese diet included VERY little meat, most often fish, and used soy products as the main protein source.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7535339 - 10/19/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535451 - 10/19/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

From your own link:

Quote:

Therefore, I advocate a plant-based (vegetable-based) diet that is either vegan or one that is near vegan with a small amount of animal products




:lol:

Only one of these links contains research, the rest are opinion pieces.  The only one that contains research citations is the source of the quote I posted above.  :shrug:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7535604 - 10/19/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oops..i concede

i still think eating a well balanced diet including meat is fine

to each his own


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7535707 - 10/19/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Certainly a well-balanced diet with small quantities of meat is a HUGE improvement over the Western diet.  I suppose it is just a matter of how healthy you want to be. :shrug:  After watching my family members grow ill and die on a meat-centered diet, I knew that something was wrong.  When I began to examine the research, I simply couldn't deny the connections any longer.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7535751 - 10/19/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Why? Because eating meat has this strange tendency to make me feel like utter shit.

Fruits and vegetables taste good, and make me feel alive.

I'd post the other reasons but I see Veritas already has it covered.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Veritas]
    #7536248 - 10/19/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My family is a bunch of cattle farmers. I'm sure you can imagine, the main course of pretty much every meal is some sort of meat dish. My grandparents lived well into their 80s, I had great aunts and uncles who lived well into their 90s. My parents, aunts, and uncles are all in their 60s and have no health problems other than your typical minor "growing older" stuff.

Correlation does not necessarily equal causation.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: TurntableJunky]
    #7536283 - 10/19/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If slaughterhouses can make you vegetarian, you need to re-asses your views.

I'm eagerly awaiting an opportunity to learn to butcher an animal. I'm thinking I'll come deer-hunting eventually.

I have no interest in killing an animal, really, but I'd like to see if I'm still hungry after slicing one up.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #7537350 - 10/19/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:congrats:
Quote:

leftysurprise said:
Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
thats laughable 

you know those big stomachs all those starving kids have...yeah..thats from protein deficiency ...

i would read some other websites for your info....

muscles grow with protein..id like to see someone raise there kid with two slices of bread a day for their protein intake...

whole grains are about 10% protein....legumes about 25-35%....and even that isnt enough to support normal muscle development ...

go to school hippie and get your facts straight...




that is laughable, however you have some facts wrong. the protruding stomachs you speak of, are not from protein deficiency, it is mostly from parasites. such as worms. also, you can get all of the protein you need from eating grains, legumes, fruit and vegetables. buddist monks are perfect examples. i hardly eat any meat, and when i do eat it, it is either fish or poultry, and it is out of taste not necessity. i experiemented for almost a year, ate NO meat at all, and i did not lose any of my muscle or strength. i work out daily and i have no problem mantaining and gaining strength. look up bill pearl. he is a vegetarian body builder who won many competitions. you dont NEED meat. it is a choice.




:congrats: And there are quite a few more. But the mainstream is lothe to aknowledge them.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #7537353 - 10/19/07 09:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

g


Edited by shaos (04/20/11 12:24 PM)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: adrug]
    #7537357 - 10/19/07 09:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Your sample size is too small to be relevant.  :shrug:  I'm glad that your family has not had major negative consequences of eating meat, but MOST of the population does.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537361 - 10/19/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wow!!!

5 stars.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #7537363 - 10/19/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

centrum said:
Well I believe that its bad karma to eat meat, especially if the animal had a painfull existance.


Not all meat is fully digested, and it rots in the intestines and causes constipation.





Can you send me a link that proves that?


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537373 - 10/19/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Fast for 10 days and look at and take a big wiff of what will still be coming out of you. It ain't cauliflower.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537381 - 10/19/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7537386 - 10/19/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

are you trying to say that is meat rotting ...ive fasted before...and taken those herbal cleansers....
find me a link where it says you have rotting meat in you intestines


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7537400 - 10/19/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

sometimes i put little meat particles in my vegetarian friend's food.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537409 - 10/19/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

just take a wiff of a vegetarians shit vs a meat eaters shit, you'll know instantly.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #7537413 - 10/19/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes..there is rotting meat in our digestive systems...but it does not sit in your intestines for weeks months or years .... your body is very good at removing digestive waste....


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537431 - 10/19/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

true, but the body holds onto the massive waste products until you give it a catalyst for removing them.


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537436 - 10/19/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

happy post count by the way 2222!:bongload:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #7537441 - 10/19/07 09:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

a well balanced diet including meat(that means fiber too) should cause no digestive problems


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7537455 - 10/19/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i agree if you mean coconut and pistachio meats;)


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7539108 - 10/20/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No, it's not old chunks of meat, (I don't think) but it's wrong whatever it is, it ain't daisy fresh, and it whatever it is, it shouldn't be in there. :thumbdown:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #7539112 - 10/20/07 12:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No truer words have ever been spoken. As they say,

"The proof is in the pooping"        :cheers:


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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Akamatsu]
    #7539294 - 10/20/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Akamatsu said:
How well connected is your concept of meat with a living breathing animal? Would you eat meat if you were forced to slaughter the animal yourself? Knock it out with the back of an axe, cut through it's throat with a knife, hear it choke to death on it's own blood, hang it up to bleed, cut it's skin off, remove it's internal organs, it's genitals, it's limbs, calve it up, and then add it's meat to your favorite recipe?

In my experience, this process puts most westerners off eating that particular piece of meat. The connection is lost, and we're fine with it as long as someone else does the dirty work. Personally, I don't think that's entirely ethical.

I'm not a vegetarian by the way, although I'd say I eat a lot less meat then most. The other reason I eat less meat is because of ecological factors. Growing grain to feed animals to feed humans is a lot less efficient then growing grain to feed humans.




If we were not in a modern day society? Um yeah why the fuck not? I'm not going to go hungry.

Not everybody has the land or money to raise their own livestock.

What do you think they relied on back in the good ol days if the crops failed?

Meat + Vegetables > Meat or Vegetable alone





A vegetarian, lost in a forest, being attacked and eaten by a wild animal.


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