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Offlinejuende
feministpresence


Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 729
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530742 - 10/18/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i dont think you would have to live on bowls of viatamins or mega shakes. there are so many different type of really good vegan foods..... ahhh. i love to eat and cook. i'm saving up to buy a few tofurkeys.. best thing in the world. and seitan, and soy egg nog and veganase and nutritional yeast. stir fry with amino acids,... oh shit i'm getting really hungry from this. :subwayjared:


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530755 - 10/18/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

dont have time right now to read through this whole thread, but thought i'd share my own personal experience.

was raised mostly vegetarian - neither of my parents eat meat - and although i ate meat fairly regularly from age 10ish-16, i went veg again at age 16. i'm not against eating meat per se, and have eaten meat on a few occasions since age 16 (i'm 22 now) - mostly fish that i've caught myself while camping, or fish that was freshly caught by the cook (when staying on an island off the coast of kenya where there is literally nothing else to eat). my main reason for being vegetarian today is my disgust with large-scale meat-farming operations, both in terms of environmental sustainability & animal rights (as well as the health of the consumer). as well, since i was raised vegetarian, i really don't have a taste for meat...

far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...


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Offlinej3ckyl
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Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 450
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Krishna]
    #7530790 - 10/18/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...




Too true, a point I've been hammering home. We all need to make more effort to eat locally sourced food.


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.


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Invisiblestarseed
professional lurker


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 671
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530895 - 10/18/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i was a vegetarian for seven years. this train was derailed about six months ago.

i initially became veg because i didn't think we should sustain our lives on animals. i figured, since mankind has the knowledge to be able to sustain itself on grains and produce alone, then all should embrace this.

i also was heaviily into metaphysical theory at the time, and i wanted to see the effects on increased intuitive notions arising from elimination of meat consumption.

for the record, there was a marked increase in said impressions.

seven years pass and i'm fine with no meat. been doing it so long the thought of eating flesh is sickening to me. all is well until i get the cravings.

i have never had any craving as strong as these. my mind calls out for chicken, beef and fish. it screams at me.. "EAT IT NOW, YOU SILLY BASTARD! WE NEED THAT SHIT TO LIVE! REMEMBER CHICKEN? THAT SHIT'S BOMB! YOU CAN'T FORSAKE THAT SHIT FOR LIFE!"

i kind of took it as, either i wasn't getting proper nutrition at the time or if i continued on my path i would eventually be unable to digest meat.

so i went back. it was hard at first, knowing i was putting a piece of chicken flesh in my mouth.. i kept thinking about what it was and nearly puking at the thought.

but soon i got over that (after the forgotten tastes regained their natural superiority), and have since been eating meat like crazy.

intuitive impressions still come at the same rate, leading me to believe that my intention to improve them was all it took. eliminating meat was merely my way of committing to that discipline.

all in all it was a positive experience. i learned a lot about the meat industry in my time off. the more i contemplated the abuses, the more i considered them to be merely a necessary by-product of trying to feed millions of people (and the ones in this country eating several times more then they need). dealing with that volume of production is bound to have some ill-effects on the animals.

i agree with some of the above posts regarding the slaughter of one's own food. i'm not certain that everyone could do it with a clear conscience at first.. but as you continued, you would see the necessity and come to terms with it.


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:poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison:


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Invisiblewhattheheck
Chief Love Lover
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Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530953 - 10/18/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've spent 4 years cleansing (lets NOT get into a discussion about what's "real" and what isn't please everyone) with periodic fasting and a slow and steady change in my overall diet.

The bottom line with red meat, is that when I eat it, I get plugged up. It takes a LOT more energy for my body, which is now very used to live, nutrient rich, and fibrous food, to process and move a chunk of dead cow along.

Of course, if I over eat a "treat" this can happen too. I pigged out on a medium sized bag of Doritos here a few weeks back while I was traveling, and I felt like I had a brick in my stomach for a few hours. So I think a lot of it is relational.

I'm now used to light and fibrous food being moved with a low level of effort through my body, and all that entails from the time it hits my mouth, until it hits the can. This wasn't true until a couple of years ago. Unless you've ever known how it feels to be light inside and out, you can't really miss it.

I also think this is partly why most S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) eaters don't feel "fulfilled" after eating a typical vegetarian meal, no matter how much they eat. They've been brainwashed, as we all were, usually in school, to believe that your stomach "growling" meant you were hungry, and being full was when you should stop eating. Usually eating nutrient dense food, you're just not going to get that "thud" in you like you would with most SAD foods. I rarely if ever feel "full" anymore. But I do feel good :cool:

Please note that I AM NOT ripping on anyone's diet. It is personal choice and even though I graduated with a 30 inch waist, by 21 it was up to 39. And the LAST thing I wanted was somebody disrespecting what I choose to put in my body. I grew up without much food, and to be able to eat brought me great comfort. So that's that.

Peace & Hair grease.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Invisiblewhattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Male


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530959 - 10/18/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

j3ckyl said:
Quote:

Krishna said:
far more important - imo - than eating "organic" or vegetarian is eating locally & sustainably...




Too true, a point I've been hammering home. We all need to make more effort to eat locally sourced food.




Yup Yup!!!:thumbup:


--------------------
A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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OfflineJunkFood
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Registered: 10/02/06
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530960 - 10/18/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not against consuming animal products; I'm against the fucking food chain. We should live in a world where steak grows on trees. What was God thinking? :crankey:

As far as legitamite animal testing: Since kindergarden, we're taught that it's wrong to benefit at the expense of others, and yet animal testing is the ultimate exploitation of another being.


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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7530969 - 10/18/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a heartache
Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a mistake
Tell me why
I never wanna hear you say
I want it that way


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7531152 - 10/18/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The way many animals are treated in kennels, slaughterhouses, pounds, and etc is extremely fucked up - vegans simply listen to their hearts not their stomachs. :thumbup:


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7531327 - 10/18/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I eat meat. I'm trying to cut down to organic/free range cuts, wild game/fish.

But I am becoming very turned off by the sustainability aspects of raising cattle and chickens. Not right, makes no sense.

What we do to our oceans is pretty fuckin sick too.

Serving sizes are fucked too, it should be about 3oz of meat (deck of cards) not a MCWhooperPounder


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InvisibleBIGSWANG
oakridge gang, beotch
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Noetical]
    #7531458 - 10/18/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the recommended daily serving of lean meat is 4oz a day


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Admin Edit: Your signiture is inappropriate and has been removed.  Do not harass other members in your signiture.  Also refrain from posting links to scat pornography.  If I see anything like that here again, you will be banned.


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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7531499 - 10/18/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I read on a vegan website that you can get your daily requirement of protein from just two slices of whole grain bread. John Robbins says in his book, Diet for a New America, that protein is a myth propagated by the meat and dairy industries: that the daily requirement is way too high; the body only needs small amounts of it. He also adds that even if you don't consume adequate amounts of protein, protein deficency is extremely rare and starving children in third-world countries don't even have it.


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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: JunkFood]
    #7531537 - 10/18/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thats laughable

you know those big stomachs all those starving kids have...yeah..thats from protein deficiency ...

i would read some other websites for your info....

muscles grow with protein..id like to see someone raise there kid with two slices of bread a day for their protein intake...

whole grains are about 10% protein....legumes about 25-35%....and even that isnt enough to support normal muscle development ...

go to school hippie and get your facts straight...


--------------------
Admin Edit: Your signiture is inappropriate and has been removed.  Do not harass other members in your signiture.  Also refrain from posting links to scat pornography.  If I see anything like that here again, you will be banned.


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OfflineTruth_Within
Not Knowing
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7531548 - 10/18/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am a vegetarian for a couple different reasons. However a couple years ago I was a meat eater. Let me just say though, that I have no problem with meat eaters, and also would rather not be associated with the "preaching, praising, and criticizing that some vegans and vegetarians do. They give the rest of vegetarians a bad rap.

For one meat is very heavy for me to digest. It leaves me sluggish with a very full feeling. The main reason I became a vegetarian was for meditation and eastern religion purposes.They believe that when animals are killed, they experience fear. By ingesting the meat of the animal, you are also taking in that fear and other emotions it felt before it died. I also believe now in modern times, we dont need to depend on meat to live, as we did in the past. Since there are an array of foods available to all.

I have noticed an increase in energy within the body and an enhanced clarity within the mind.

I came across an interesting article by Milton R. Mills, M.D. that shows the comparisons of the anatomy between carnivores, herbavores, omnivores, and humans.

http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/health/comparative.html


Here is a chart on the bottom of the article for anyone who doesnt want to read it.

Facial Muscles
Carnivore Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore Well-developed
Omnivore Reduced
Human Well-developed

Jaw Type
Carnivore Angle not expanded
Herbivore Expanded angle
Omnivore Angle not expanded
Human Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location

Carnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Human Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
Carnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Omnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles

Carnivore Temporalis
Herbivore Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore Temporalis
Human Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size

Carnivore Large
Herbivore Small
Omnivore Large
Human Small

Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore Short and pointed
Herbivore Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore Short and pointed
Human Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore Long, sharp and curved
Human Short and blunted

Teeth (Molars)

Carnivore Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
Carnivore None; swallows food whole
Herbivore Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
Carnivore No digestive enzymes
Herbivore Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore No digestive enzymes
Human Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type
Carnivore Simple
Herbivore Simple or multiple chambers
Omnivore Simple
Human Simple

Stomach Acidity
Carnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity

Carnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine

Carnivore 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore 10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore 4 to 6 times body length
Human 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
Carnivore Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore Simple, short and smooth
Human Long, sacculated

Liver
Carnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Human Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney
Carnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Human Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
Carnivore Sharp claws
Herbivore Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore Sharp claws
Human Flattened nails


Edited by Truth_Within (10/18/07 02:49 PM)


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InvisibleBIGSWANG
oakridge gang, beotch
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: Truth_Within]
    #7531579 - 10/18/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

we have been omnivores for over 400,000 years

chimpanzees, who are also omnivores, dont share any of the characteristics that you have explained above

pigs are another


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Invisiblewhattheheck
Chief Love Lover
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Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7531826 - 10/18/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The interesting thing about meat is that I believe that most protein is destroyed or becomes radically unstable at about 130 degrees. So that "30 grams" that you're supposedly getting in that chicken breast is maybe three or four (comparable to a few spoons of hemp seeds) after it gets torched.

Two of the best looking clean bodybuilders I ever knew ate all of their meat with a 15 second cook on each side with spices to preserve their vitamins and enzymatic activity. I thought they were nuts 10 years ago, now I agree with them. Especially considering where they're still at in their development.

I truly believe that one of the reasons that BB'ers and athletes have grown so much in the past decade or so is the ability to increase their protein intake from non-cooked sources, powders, bars etc. Even Dan Duchaine, "The Steriod Guru" thought that EFA's, which are very high in protein as a general rule, were the number one supplement going.

But we are ALL different. One of the biggest dudes I ever knew ate 12 bananas a day, and swore that if he went below 6, no matter what he did, he'd lose weight. So to argue as if we know what somebody else may or may not need is about as stupid as it gets.

peace......


--------------------
A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: j3ckyl]
    #7534851 - 10/19/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Rather than posting what has been thoroughly discussed, I'll link to this thread on this topic.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6779751#6779751


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
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Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7534878 - 10/19/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
The interesting thing about meat is that I believe that most protein is destroyed or becomes radically unstable at about 130 degrees. So that "30 grams" that you're supposedly getting in that chicken breast is maybe three or four (comparable to a few spoons of hemp seeds) after it gets torched.

Two of the best looking clean bodybuilders I ever knew ate all of their meat with a 15 second cook on each side with spices to preserve their vitamins and enzymatic activity. I thought they were nuts 10 years ago, now I agree with them. Especially considering where they're still at in their development.

I truly believe that one of the reasons that BB'ers and athletes have grown so much in the past decade or so is the ability to increase their protein intake from non-cooked sources, powders, bars etc. Even Dan Duchaine, "The Steriod Guru" thought that EFA's, which are very high in protein as a general rule, were the number one supplement going.

But we are ALL different. One of the biggest dudes I ever knew ate 12 bananas a day, and swore that if he went below 6, no matter what he did, he'd lose weight. So to argue as if we know what somebody else may or may not need is about as stupid as it gets.

peace......




i agree. i only eat either poultry or seafood, mostly seafood. most of the time i eat my fish either raw or only seared slightly on both sides. any other time it is steamed. i cook my chicken very lightly.

for me, being a (mostly)vegetarian is all about health. yeah i also think about the cruelty animals go though in large farms and whatnot, which is why i buy free range organic meats. whenever i finally have a house out where i can raise my own animals i will. being vegetarian is just healthier. ive noticed a huge difference in my health since i started living this way about 3 years ago.

i eat fish about twice a week. poultry once every week or two. or less. depends.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534911 - 10/19/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
thats laughable

you know those big stomachs all those starving kids have...yeah..thats from protein deficiency ...

i would read some other websites for your info....

muscles grow with protein..id like to see someone raise there kid with two slices of bread a day for their protein intake...

whole grains are about 10% protein....legumes about 25-35%....and even that isnt enough to support normal muscle development ...

go to school hippie and get your facts straight...




that is laughable, however you have some facts wrong. the protruding stomachs you speak of, are not from protein deficiency, it is mostly from parasites. such as worms. also, you can get all of the protein you need from eating grains, legumes, fruit and vegetables. buddist monks are perfect examples. i hardly eat any meat, and when i do eat it, it is either fish or poultry, and it is out of taste not necessity. i experiemented for almost a year, ate NO meat at all, and i did not lose any of my muscle or strength. i work out daily and i have no problem mantaining and gaining strength. look up bill pearl. he is a vegetarian body builder who won many competitions. you dont NEED meat. it is a choice.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Vegetarians, Tell me why? [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7534927 - 10/19/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
i heard if you supplement you body with lots of vitamins, mainly b12 and something containing trace minerals you should stay relatively healthy as a vegan

also...if you dont have enough protein in your diet, your belly will pooch out like those Ethiopian kids




yes, vegans have to take several different supplements to stay healthy, i know a couple of them, one doesnt take any supplements and the others do, the one who does not is not as healthy in my opinion.

i personally refuse to be a vegan, consuming animal products do not harm the animal. and they are very beneficial. however i do respect anyones choice to eat and live however they want.


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