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OfflineKrissKross
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Oversoaked Rye grains/ Boiling + baked verm tek
    #7530096 - 10/18/07 05:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I greatly miscalculated the amount of rye grains that I would be able to boil and sterilize in a 24 hour period. Now the grain is going on 48 hours of soack time. Are my grains approaching a point where they will no longer be suitable for mushroom cultivation?

I just though of a tek that might somehow be used to skip the PC process, though not at all ideal/useful under the preferred circumstance (which of course are easily achieved), I think the tek could almost work for getting these rye grains sterilized before they go bad. I wouldn't recommend for anyone to try this, especially not a noob like me! The tek is as follows:

-Rye grains are prepared the normal way, by some method of soaking, for 24 to 48 hours.
-A suitable amount of dry vermiculite (judge for yourself after reading this tek) is backed in a filter patch bag in the oven at temps of 230F (an arbitrary number chosen because its well above pasteurization but not to hot so as to melt the bag or cause unforeseen problems) for 2 hours (or whatever is needed to sterilize dry verm with dry heat.) The bag is sealed shut via some sort of method similar to the method used to seal bread for freshness. You don't want to impulse seal since your going to be opening the bag later. I suggest maybe leaving an air pocket in the bag but that might not be necessary.
-You will want to have set it up so you can remove the bag from the oven, while still at peak temperature, without disturbing the bag too much, as this might allow air in. While still at peak temps remove the bag from oven and transfer it to your clean room, doesn't have to be THAT clean but it should be basically free of anything that holds dust and be cleaned regularly. No carpeting. If you have a hepa to filter the air thats probably good,(make sure room is decently sealed and hepa is off when u actually do the work) cleaning right before is probably good too. One method I suggest is to have a sterilized rubber tote sitting by your stove with lid on. Your kitchen should ideally be clean and the air should be as still as possible (hot air rushing from stove might be a problem there). You should be clean also, wear alcohol washed gloves. Transfer the hot verm bag direct into the sterilized tote, spray with oust/lysol, secure lid, transfer to clean room.
-Boil grains to optimimum water content using the established methods. while still boiling dump off most of the water covering your grains. Leave just enough water so that the grains are still completely submerged in boiling hot water. Replace the lid and move pot to clean room, make sure you have a surface that can withstand the hot metal pot.
-Following common knowledge sterile procedures, open the verm bag and dump in the rye grains along with the water. Close bag and seal however you like, leave an air pocket.
-Mix contents. If you loaded the proper amount of verm for the size of your batch, the verm should soak up all the excess water and still have a capacity to soak up a bit more. the end result of course should be no freestanding water in the bag.

One thing you could try to make this (possibly) more likely to succeed  as well as easier is the following:
Get some quart jars and fill with about 1 cup of soaked rye each. attach standard lids with air holes but don't attach any filter disk, tyvek etc. On second though maybe a couple of coffee filters or tyvek would be good if it allows water to flow into the jar. place the jars into the pot you are using to boil your grains, making sure that something is keeping them off the bottom of the pot. Boil as usual. Don't drain of any water when ready, just transfer to clean room. Using jar tongues and heat resistant gloves remove the jars from water, making sure they still contain enough water to keep the grains submerged. Remove jar lids and dump entire contents into bag. Repeat until you think the verm has absorbed enough. Seal bag etc.

Another thing you could try is containing the vermiculite in some kind of screen bag, within the autoclave bag, making sure the verm stays on the bottom layer. This way you could make sure that the verm doesn't mix with/dilute the rye grains and slow colonization. I would still suggest leaving a little bit of verm to mix in with the rye, in order to get the outer surface of the rye nice and dry.

Finnaly one more thing I just though of, Keep the verm away from the water somehow when you pour the grains in. use a big syringe (60cc or larger) or inoculation gun to draw off as much water as possible and then mix with verm. You could also put an appropriate amount of desiccant,in a sealed container, inside of the bag. After most of the water is removed, the desiccant container is opened to clean up the last traces of freestanding water. Hopefully it doesnt just dry out the rye instead. I imagine it would absorb the "loose" water first but I could be wrong.

I know this tek is ridiculous and is not good even if it does work, which it probably doesn't, at least not with reliability. I was just thinking of a possible solution to my problem and thought id through it out there and see what people think.

Happy growing everyone:)


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