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Zwieback0
Baby Bread



Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 3,473
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Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls
#7521649 - 10/15/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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? Just wondering...
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Zwieback0]
#7521890 - 10/16/07 12:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Calls from landline phone to a landline phone. Anything over a cell phone is unsecure.
Edited by Le_Canard (10/16/07 01:07 AM)
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somebody041
bud tester


Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 476
Loc: California
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Zwieback0]
#7521907 - 10/16/07 01:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've always wondered this...
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: somebody041]
#7524122 - 10/16/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know what you mean by "unsecure".
Back in the non-digital days, yes, you could pick up calls on a scanner. You cannot anymore.
Police can't do anything without a warrant, so that's irrelevant anyhow. I'd bet they'd have an easier time locating the phone that's physically at your address, than a no-ID burner that you chuck after a month.
Text messages are usually retained for 60 days. I would never risk leaving a trail on that shit.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7524147 - 10/16/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainLinger said: Police can't do anything without a warrant, so that's irrelevant anyhow. I'd bet they'd have an easier time locating the phone that's physically at your address, than a no-ID burner that you chuck after a month.
the patriot act pretty much saw to it that all our privacy can be invaded, phone conversations can easily be monitored without our knowledge
i would be careful especially with the new phones now that have GPS, your exact location shows up on satellite >_>
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2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me



Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 1,635
Loc: New England
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Crystal G]
#7524693 - 10/16/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Patriot acts take most of your rights to privacy for christ sake if they can't get you under one of our laws you can be prosecuted under other country's laws!! You have no privacy! Text Messages are more easily invaded than your calls, they need no warrant as of today to invade your cell phones.
Congress is trying to fight this, not by working against the patriot acts but by making it illegal for cell phone company's to cooperate with the police and feds unless they do have a warrant. Thank god for democrats.
Moral of the story: If they want to tap your phone or read your messages, they are going to.
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
Edited by 2FiNiTe (10/16/07 06:28 PM)
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: 2FiNiTe]
#7524781 - 10/16/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd just love to see the police incident where a mid-level drug dealer was pursued and phone tapped under the Patriot Act. That's just silly. Wiretaps are on the very, very laborious, difficult, and pricey end of surveillance. When you get busted it will be due to a traffic stop, or an informant.
Just because you hear about it on the news doesn't mean you're next, and it's not as if police are running an all-resources war here. If you're big enough to get hit by that kind of prosecution, you shouldn't be visiting a cultivation-oriented site, period.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Zwieback0]
#7524895 - 10/16/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Face to face is always best when you can. Its the only way to know you're really safe.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: robbyberto]
#7525081 - 10/16/07 07:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fucking A. Outdoors.
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7525123 - 10/16/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was stupid but I just had to say it.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: robbyberto]
#7525146 - 10/16/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
robbyberto said: Face to face is always best when you can. Its the only way to know you're really safe.
Sadly, it's the truth.
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casgoodie
weedwright


Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 770
Loc: terra
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7525269 - 10/16/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i agree nothing but face to face, and always making sure there are no spy squirrels around too
-------------------- TRAPPED IN LINGUISTIC CONCEPTS
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: casgoodie]
#7525303 - 10/16/07 08:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Carrier pigeons are always an option too, I suppose.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7525410 - 10/16/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7525472 - 10/16/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is a joke, right 
Damn cat'll eat my carrier pigeon and intercept the message.
Edited by Adagio (10/16/07 09:04 PM)
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist



Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7525540 - 10/16/07 09:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just use code words.
When did smoked I would ask "If i could pick him/she up/over" and not say what I was looking for.
He/she would see give me some time or not now...
--------------------
Fair is Fair
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7534468 - 10/19/07 08:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainLinger said: I'd just love to see the police incident where a mid-level drug dealer was pursued and phone tapped under the Patriot Act. That's just silly. Wiretaps are on the very, very laborious, difficult, and pricey end of surveillance.
Cell phones don't need to be wiretapped.
Not that I'm paranoid about anything, but anyone could potentially listen to a cell phone conversation.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7534716 - 10/19/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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CDMA, sure. Today, no.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7534755 - 10/19/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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CDMA?
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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robbyberto
Water Boy


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7534783 - 10/19/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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DVDA?
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: robbyberto]
#7535198 - 10/19/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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CDMA, the analog predecessor to GSM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdma
Used to be phone calls were handled by a particular frequency range, switching when they moved between towers. You could listen with an analog scanner. Now voice traffic is encrypted, and no, you can't just pull it out of the air. Even as such, using that evidence in court would have to meet wiretap standards.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7535427 - 10/19/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good to know. Thanks.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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pokermush
Waterboardingmyself toprotect America!


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7535865 - 10/19/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was chatting with a guy wearing a Calif police jacket. "Hell of a commute" I said. He explained it was his brother's.
Apparently his brother is on a team whose primary responsibility is to kick into action when another cop is murdered. His team monitors cell phones (didn't specify text messages or voice, but I got the impression it was both) after a cop is killed and looks for certain activity that is consistent with what the gangs do to protect those responsible for the killing.
I'm all for catching the cop-killers, but knowing what I know I carefully avoid anything incriminating on cell calls or text messages.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7535999 - 10/19/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainLinger said: I'd just love to see the police incident where a mid-level drug dealer was pursued and phone tapped under the Patriot Act. That's just silly. Wiretaps are on the very, very laborious, difficult, and pricey end of surveillance. When you get busted it will be due to a traffic stop, or an informant.
Just because you hear about it on the news doesn't mean you're next, and it's not as if police are running an all-resources war here. If you're big enough to get hit by that kind of prosecution, you shouldn't be visiting a cultivation-oriented site, period.
He speaks the truth. While there have been abuses of the patriot act (for non-national security investigations) that doesn't mean your likely to ever encounter it. And its future in the courts is uncerain.
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CaptainLinger
A Fungus Amongus


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: johnm214]
#7536756 - 10/19/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Poker, I think that's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't fuck up a cop, period. One of the cardinal rules of maintaining an effective "peaceful" enforcement corps is ensuring the personal security of officers.
Growing shrooms? It's not like they're going to have to personally answer to that, anytime. Mushrooms are decentralized. I've never heard of GDs trying to learn PF.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7538641 - 10/20/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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on the same topic, how safe is say aol/aim to be discussing "larger" illegal activities? i know that information isnt confidential and a log is always kept on file somewhere, same applies for myspace and facebook too...
how safe are other messenger systems--yahoo, skype, etc...
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bumble
homunculus


Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 160
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Crystal G]
#7669526 - 11/23/07 08:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: on the same topic, how safe is say aol/aim to be discussing "larger" illegal activities? i know that information isnt confidential and a log is always kept on file somewhere, same applies for myspace and facebook too...
how safe are other messenger systems--yahoo, skype, etc...
Can someone answer this plz.
-------------------- progressive trance: Brian Rogers
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: bumble]
#7671088 - 11/23/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm curious to know as well.
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bumble
homunculus


Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 160
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7671214 - 11/23/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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when in doubt exercise caution
-------------------- progressive trance: Brian Rogers
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: bumble]
#7672009 - 11/23/07 07:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's no beating face-to-face communication.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7672571 - 11/23/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adagio said: There's no beating face-to-face communication.
You mean face to face communication, whispering under a blasting radio so that not even a recorder outside can pick up your vocal waves [/total tweaker status]
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nerotheavenger
turd that won'tflush
Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 51
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Zwieback0]
#7674154 - 11/24/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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govt is trying to make it legal for phone companies to provide them with records regarding where calls are coming from so they can "track" the locations of drug dealers.. right. i'll believe that...
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Liquidkick
H2O
Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: nerotheavenger]
#7674499 - 11/24/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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instant messaging is a lot safer than cell phones i think.
Messages can be encrypted. You can use various methods and also use VPNs to further hide your traffic.
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bumble
homunculus


Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 160
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Liquidkick]
#7680457 - 11/26/07 02:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The latest scatterchat might have a flaw in it so I dont know if its safe to use. Im completely new to this area but watching this video was pretty interesting.
-------------------- progressive trance: Brian Rogers
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
Loc: Never Land
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: bumble]
#7680770 - 11/26/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Talking is much safer, text messages and IMs can be documented
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bumble
homunculus


Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 160
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Caribou_Lou]
#7680856 - 11/26/07 08:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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its like you didnt bother reading the last posts of this thread..
-------------------- progressive trance: Brian Rogers
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: bumble]
#7682485 - 11/26/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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So? I knew the answer and replied.. Is it a fuckin requirement to read every post in every thread you post in?
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Caribou_Lou]
#7682506 - 11/26/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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YES
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JAYMAN
Stranger


Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 12
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7705115 - 12/02/07 01:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Telephones in general are not worth the risk, Definately a face to face business.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7706246 - 12/02/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does anyone know if there is such a thing as encrypted IM's?
I wold love to have AIM to be secure like PGP, Hushmail,etc. Do they have instant message encryption,proxies, or something like that?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7707091 - 12/02/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Google "encrypted IM" you'll get plenty of hits. There are several out there.
Please let this thread die already. Text messaging is one of the dumbest things I've seen come about, and anyone who sends an already typed up transcript containing illegal activity, that the government can get with no warrant, deserves whatever they get.
-FF
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: fastfred]
#7707142 - 12/02/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Google "encrypted IM" you'll get plenty of hits. There are several out there.
Please let this thread die already. Text messaging is one of the dumbest things I've seen come about, and anyone who sends an already typed up transcript containing illegal activity, that the government can get with no warrant, deserves whatever they get.
-FF
well I presume your being retorical in the case of victimless crimes, but yeah... this thread is stupid and filled with baseless speculation.
Sources motherfuckers, use em
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ivi


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: CaptainLinger]
#7713104 - 12/03/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainLinger said: CDMA, the analog predecessor to GSM. You could listen with an analog scanner. Now voice traffic is encrypted, and no, you can't just pull it out of the air. Even as such, using that evidence in court would have to meet wiretap standards.
At least here in the EU all the call details for every call of every mobile telephone user are retained by the phone company and stored for a definite amount of time between six months and two years. The data recorded for each call is vast including telephone number, caller's name and address (in the case of pre-paid anonymous services, the date and time of the initial activation of the service and the Cell ID from which the service was activated), cell ID from which communication is being made, cell sector the access was attempted on, date, time etc. (See EU Directive 2006/24/EC, I guess ithere are similar requirements elsewhere in the world). More details including received RF strength (by both cell site and by the mobile), RF quality measurements, system resources that were assigned to the call etc. are technologically possible to obtain.
Law enforcement and intelligence agencies have access to these records without getting access to the content of the information communicated.
To access the content via phone company and/or request it to be recorded police & intelligence agencies need a bigger reason than you selling weed to your school buddies I'd guess.
Although GSM communications cannot be intercepted with your good old RF scanner, middle man can "pull them out of the air" easily using newer technologies. It's a contraption called IMSI-catcher (a.k.a. GSM sniffer). Although commercial items are only legally available to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, you could easily get your hands on one given you have the necessary money and contacts. That, or a good dose of enthusiasm (see http://wiki.thc.org/gsm , here is another interesting website).
Well thats about as much as I know. Any more information and corrections would be very much appreciated.
If I sold drugs, I wouldn't use a cellphone at all.
As far as instant messaging goes it's possible to couple, say, AIM with PGP.
Best regards
--------------------
Edited by ivi (12/03/07 10:06 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: ivi]
#7713637 - 12/03/07 11:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> on the same topic, how safe is say aol/aim to be discussing "larger" illegal activities?
Extremely unsafe!!!
# tcpdump -lns0 -X tcp port 5190
That is all someone needs to type to see the content of AIM messages. Even a cop could figure that out.
> i know that information isnt confidential and a log is always kept on file somewhere, same applies for myspace and facebook too...
Myspace and facebook are even worse. Not only are they plaintext, they will sell you out in a second, for free.
> how safe are other messenger systems--yahoo, skype, etc...
Skype is actually pretty good. Maybe they can crack it, but probably not and 99.999% of the police out there wouldn't know where to begin. The traffic looks like garbage, end of story.
Everyone who cares about their privacy should use pgp. GPG is the free version, I use it all the time, works great.
Shroomery encrypted PM's are good, however the security of your PM's depends on the security of the shroomery. If the website is hacked, all the passphrases can be recorded because the encryption / decryption is done on the server side. Probably good enough, 1000x better than plaintext. Also the ssl used to transfer the plaintext can be cracked easily with a man in the middle attack. Just use it anyway, it will keep your communication safe 99.99% of the time, compared to 0% of the time for AIM or standard PM's.
The other thing that needs to be considered is how many of your friends get busted via tapped AIM/pm's/phone calls vs how many get busted while driving a car or other low tech methods? No one has ever told me that they got heat from tapped anything, but people do sometimes complain about getting pulled over.
Regarding which is safer, text messages or phone calls, they are both equally unsafe. When I am on the phone with someone and they mention something illegal, the next time I see them I ask them not to do that anymore. But I always feel stupid doing it - self-censorship is much worse than other forms of censorship, I feel really bad whenever I do it.
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Jorsher
Psychonaut



Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 691
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Cellphone companies (at least Cingular/AT&T circa 06) don't keep records of text messages. They keep record as to when they were sent and who they were sent to, but that's mostly for billing purposes. SMS is just simply sent to a phone number (SMS service number), and that number forwards it to whoever you send to. I specifically had a lady attempting to get SMS records from us for legal purposes (I worked for Cingular), and even though I was 99% sure we didn't have them, I contacted other areas of Cingular and was told NO that they don't keep SMS message records.
GSM calls are a bit harder to listen in on, if not nearly impossible. I'm sure there's a way but it's nowhere near as easy as with CDMA. I don't know if the earlier post was serious about being able to track people from cellphone towers, but just in case, it's possible although not as accurate as GPS. How is it possible? Simple. When your phone hops from tower to tower, it sends a signal out and surrounding towers receive and respond to it. It would be very easy to write a few lines of code that could make a fairly accurate guess of where the person is by simply doing some math with the time it takes the signal to reach each tower.
-------------------- 5 shroom me!
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Jorsher]
#7716262 - 12/04/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If your going to make a statment like that you should provide a source, as it's counterintuitive.
EDIT: I must have missed where you explained, sorry.
Edited by johnm214 (12/04/07 04:37 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Posts: 23,480
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: johnm214]
#7716734 - 12/04/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Shroomery encrypted PM's are good, however the security of your PM's depends on the security of the shroomery. If the website is hacked, all the passphrases can be recorded because the encryption / decryption is done on the server side. Probably good enough, 1000x better than plaintext. Also the ssl used to transfer the plaintext can be cracked easily with a man in the middle attack. Just use it anyway, it will keep your communication safe 99.99% of the time, compared to 0% of the time for AIM or standard PM's.
More or less correct, but a few points:
A hacker would have to break into the system and alter the code to record your passphrase. They would then have to wait for you to enter the passphrase. Finally, they would have to retrieve this information somehow... all without being detected by any of our technical admins. We have been up for more than a decade. During that time we have had one person access the admin forum, through the web site, without permission. During that time we have had two or three people access the mod forum, through the web site, without permission. Not once, in more than ten years, has anybody accessed our server(s) without permission.
Also, you have the option to store the private key on our server or keep it local and upload it when needed. Again, a hacker in the above scenario could record the key, but this would be very, very difficult. You can alway keep your private key local and decrypt private messages on your local machine. You do not have to use the shroomery to decrypt your messages.
Finally, I am curious why you would state that SSL is easy to crack with a man in the middle attack? I am unaware of any vulnerabilities beyond various implementation errors. Considering the amount of financial transactions that occur every day over SSL, I would think a vulnerability that left it "easy to crack" would be fairly big news.
Personally, I would be much more worried about a hardware keylogger than any of the stuff listed above. However, you are correct, that by using the shroomery to decrypt messages, you are placing trust in the shroomery and if the site has been compromised, then your encrypted messages could be decrypted by somebody else.
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GSM calls are a bit harder to listen in on, if not nearly impossible.
Fairly easy with very expensive equipment. GSM security is (or at least was) a joke. I haven't kept up with the technology, but I doubt they have fixed their problems.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Seuss]
#7716990 - 12/04/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Also, you have the option to store the private key on our server or keep it local and upload it when needed.
Why did this never cross my mind.... That's not a bad idea.
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Jorsher
Psychonaut



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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7717080 - 12/04/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Doesn't surprise me GSM is "hackable." I just didn't think it'd be easy if it was possible. I doubt any local law enforcement would have the equipment, and if the DEA is after you, phone calls won't be your only concern.
Are the keys created with the uhhh md5 encryption function? I think I read it's a one-way encryption method, although I'm not sure how that's possible, but I don't keep up with security news my self. Regardless, it could be figured with good ol' brute force although that would obviously take a while.
The best way to stay safe is to communicate your actions as little as possible, especially electronically. Just take every precaution you can. Wait until quantum computers become more accessible (theyre making steady progress) and mind reading is possible (also making progress)...although every technology seems to have a countermeasure.
-------------------- 5 shroom me!
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BlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores




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Posts: 3,788
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Jorsher]
#7723893 - 12/06/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jorsher said: I don't know if the earlier post was serious about being able to track people from cellphone towers, but just in case, it's possible although not as accurate as GPS. How is it possible? Simple. When your phone hops from tower to tower, it sends a signal out and surrounding towers receive and respond to it. It would be very easy to write a few lines of code that could make a fairly accurate guess of where the person is by simply doing some math with the time it takes the signal to reach each tower.
That is exactly what they call "GPS" on phones, its kind of false advertising if you ask me. You are correct that it isn't very accurate. The accuracy depends on the number of towers that you are in range of. If you live in a rural area I'd imagine it would be less accurate than if you lived in a densely populated city. The city would have more towers to handle the higher load meaning you'd be within range of 4-6 towers which would give a better estimate than 2-3 towers.
Using MGMaps on my cell phone actually gets within 100 yards of my position , sometimes even getting as close as 20 yards. I always turn the GPS option in the phone settings off when I'm done using MGMaps for directions etc.
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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BlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores




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Posts: 3,788
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Jorsher]
#7723986 - 12/06/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Jorsher said: Are the keys created with the uhhh md5 encryption function? I think I read it's a one-way encryption method, although I'm not sure how that's possible, but I don't keep up with security news my self. Regardless, it could be figured with good ol' brute force although that would obviously take a while.
MD5 IS a one-way encryption. It is mostly used to encrypt passwords on servers. This way if the server is hacked the passwords are safe.
It is a one-way encryption because it produces a hash string.
Example from wiki:
MD5("The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog") = 9e107d9d372bb6826bd81d3542a419d6
Even a small change in the message will (with overwhelming probability) result in a completely different hash, due to the avalanche effect. For example, changing d to e:
MD5("The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy eog") = ffd93f16876049265fbaef4da268dd0e
The process works like this. Your password is "magicmushroom". The server saves it as "280f710d8dcd384706b664e7b0fd3948".
When you go to the site and login the password is sent to the server. when the server recv's the password it then MD5 hashes the password and if the two MD5 strings are identical then the password is correct.
There are flaws to this however. You can strengthen MD5 by using a salt. A salt is a random chunk of data.
Example: A server can send you a random key when you first connect to the login page. The salt could be something like the current date/time such as a timestamp. Such as 1196954220 which decodes as 12 / 06 / 2007 @ 10:17. Using this salt and adding it to the algorithm makes the key different each time.
This way someone who gets a MD5 password list can't just get a list of words and MD5 them all then compare them to the encrypted passes.
I know for a fact Yahoo! Messenger uses unix timestamps to encrypt "tokens" used for webcam authorization and their voice protocol.
Me and some friends back in 2003-4 made a few programs in VB6 that allowed us to speak on voice in chat rooms with ANYONE's name who was in the chat room by cloning their Voice ID and Authorization key. Of course this only worked for so long before Yahoo! fixed the holes. It was a nice tool to scare off the dickheads that would appear from time to time in my favorite chatrooms.
Funny thing is I ran into other people who were making the same types of programs and some of them were as young as 14. Scary to think that a 14 year old could write such as program , just think what the FBI/DEA/CIA could do.
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7724254 - 12/06/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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BlimeyGrimey said:
The process works like this. Your password is "magicmushroom". The server saves it as "280f710d8dcd384706b664e7b0fd3948".
You cracked my account!
I'm telling
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7724848 - 12/06/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I went a few rounds at a phone store about this... They had a phone that said "GPS enabled", and I asked them if it actually had a GPS chip in it. They didn't really seem to know but thought that it did. So I asked them if it would provide you coordinates and they said it shows you a map, and doesn't work if you are out of cell tower range.
It old them that if it doesn't provide coordinates from a satellite than it isn't GPS and they are using false advertising and lying to people about the capabilities of the phone.
These "GPS enabled" phones have no GPS in them and are using the same old cell tower location capabilities that have been around for a long time.
-FF
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: fastfred]
#7724856 - 12/06/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that does sound misleading. While the GPS acronym would seem to encompase the type of terrestrial triangualtion your talking about, I've never heard it used like that.
I think you're right, GPS clearly means a specific technology (despite a relativly broad acronym).
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Jorsher
Psychonaut



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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7725154 - 12/06/07 04:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BlimeyGrimey said:
Quote:
Jorsher said: Are the keys created with the uhhh md5 encryption function? I think I read it's a one-way encryption method, although I'm not sure how that's possible, but I don't keep up with security news my self. Regardless, it could be figured with good ol' brute force although that would obviously take a while.
MD5 IS a one-way encryption. It is mostly used to encrypt passwords on servers. This way if the server is hacked the passwords are safe.
It is a one-way encryption because it produces a hash string.
Example from wiki:
MD5("The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog") = 9e107d9d372bb6826bd81d3542a419d6
Even a small change in the message will (with overwhelming probability) result in a completely different hash, due to the avalanche effect. For example, changing d to e:
MD5("The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy eog") = ffd93f16876049265fbaef4da268dd0e
The process works like this. Your password is "magicmushroom". The server saves it as "280f710d8dcd384706b664e7b0fd3948".
When you go to the site and login the password is sent to the server. when the server recv's the password it then MD5 hashes the password and if the two MD5 strings are identical then the password is correct.
There are flaws to this however. You can strengthen MD5 by using a salt. A salt is a random chunk of data.
Example: A server can send you a random key when you first connect to the login page. The salt could be something like the current date/time such as a timestamp. Such as 1196954220 which decodes as 12 / 06 / 2007 @ 10:17. Using this salt and adding it to the algorithm makes the key different each time.
This way someone who gets a MD5 password list can't just get a list of words and MD5 them all then compare them to the encrypted passes.
I know for a fact Yahoo! Messenger uses unix timestamps to encrypt "tokens" used for webcam authorization and their voice protocol.
Me and some friends back in 2003-4 made a few programs in VB6 that allowed us to speak on voice in chat rooms with ANYONE's name who was in the chat room by cloning their Voice ID and Authorization key. Of course this only worked for so long before Yahoo! fixed the holes. It was a nice tool to scare off the dickheads that would appear from time to time in my favorite chatrooms.
Funny thing is I ran into other people who were making the same types of programs and some of them were as young as 14. Scary to think that a 14 year old could write such as program , just think what the FBI/DEA/CIA could do.
Hehe, I've set up websites and currently run 3 domains. I know HOW they are used, just don't quite understand how something can be one-way encrypted. I mean...obviously it's possible, I guess I'll just have to read more about it, because I'm curious.
The "salt" thing is interesting, although I don't see how it'd be useful if it's always random and couldn't be decrypted.
When I was 14 I was more into games, never got into the "hacking" side of things. I did play a bit with assembly for the Z80 ARM processor (is in the Gameboy Advance as well as the graphing calculators we used at school) and C++ with some DirectX API.
Fun stuff, haven't played with any of it in probably 6 years though
-------------------- 5 shroom me!
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Jorsher]
#7725847 - 12/06/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> When your phone hops from tower to tower, it sends a signal out and surrounding towers receive and respond to it. It would be very easy to write a few lines of code that could make a fairly accurate guess of where the person is by simply doing some math with the time it takes the signal to reach each tower.
Many years ago, they had to wait until you switched cells to know exactly where you are, but that is no longer the case. These days, each tower has several antennas and they use hyperbolic positioning which measures the time difference between when your signal hits each antenna in the array to calculate where your phone is. It has an accuracy of about one hundred feet.
Many cell phones have a gps chip that reports in (your cell phone manual calls it E911), but my carrier still uses the time difference method.
A couple years ago I called 911 on a couch that was sitting in the middle of the freeway at 2am. The lady knew exactly where I was and chastised me for driving 74 in a 65.
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BlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores




Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,788
Loc: Puget Sound
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The program I use on my phone also tells you the speed you're moving at. Its accuracy is about +/-10mph. It only registers though if you are moving at 30mph or faster. At 25mph and under it just reads 0mph.
Soon we'll all have these GPS chips inside us with barcodes on our foreheads and mechanical chickens will terrorize our kids and TV stations will only play re-runs of Sanford & Son and China will finally stop putting lead in everything they manufacture and Green Peace will fix the hole in the ozone layer by plugging it with Rosie O'Donnell and Dr.Phil will reveal he is really PEDOBEAR in disguise (see pic #2) and RaptorJesus will come down and save us all from all the DESU's!
And remember Rule #1 !!!!

Dr.Phil's True Identity
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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Crystal G



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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#7730688 - 12/07/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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how safe are MMS (multimedia messaging) such as pics/video through the phone? other than the recipient, who else has access to open the file that you are sending?
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Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Crystal G]
#7730707 - 12/07/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmmm that's an interesting thought, maybe you could send your message in a picture. Seeing that no outside parties could access or intercept the picture as easily as a text message, which they probably can.
Big brother is watching you
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Robo]
#7730887 - 12/07/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Omni said: Does anyone know if there is such a thing as encrypted IM's?
I use "pidgin" for AIM protocol, although it supports most protocols though.
Any way.....it has a plug-in for encrypting IMs.....except that both you and whomever you are speaking to must have it. I guess it would be good depending on how desperate you are.
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dsquaredccubed
age askyew
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: Desu]
#7732122 - 12/08/07 07:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ill tell you whats safe but you aint ta liking it
payphone hijacking cell phone hijacking wifi skype phones carrier pigeons 2 cups a string telepathy
even these have their tapping methods
-------------------- cuwn1cu "You, Lynard Skinnard-hat and Me, little kitty Sat across with a velvet jacket Wild orange hair and dark, dark eyes I gawked like a twelve-year-old - smitten Carla the stripper, straight from L.A. You seem cool for a naked chick in a booth Let's be pals some day In other words,..
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ManianFH
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Re: Which is safer? Text Messages or Calls [Re: dsquaredccubed]
#7732991 - 12/08/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dsquaredccubed said:
2 cups a string
even these have their tapping methods
SIMPSONS DID IT
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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